How good is the MVFC

[IAA Fan]

I see the issue here. The NCAA only takes the poll into account in the event of a tie. So it really does not matter where you rank, unless you are in equal consideration with another team.

[penguinpower]

Why did the NCAA take down the 2013 FCS SRS?


http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/football/fcs/fcs-srs-poll

Somebody needs to ask.  I have been looking for this information and cannot find it anywhere.  They used to have contact information listed but the scumbags took it down.  I would send an email asking for the SRS calculation if I had the contact information. 

[guinpen]

I'm beating a dead horse here, but it won't get fixed till they stop giving auto bids and at-large bias bids. The best 16-24 teams period should play in the playoffs selected by polls-computer-strength of schedule-W/L record and conference strength. The human eye test and committee votes are way to bias. All conference champs can be seeds or just rewarded by their respective conference for a job well done  So be it if 10 of the best 24 teams come from one conference... That will force all the other dead beat conferences who want to settle it on the field to step it up.

Rant over,,,, YBR out!

I agree

[Lets_Talk]

Final 2013 SRS for the Top 30 teams in the SRS. I made the NON-PLAYOFF teams in bold:
http://www.championshipsubdivision.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=38125

RANK   /TEA   RECORD/NCAASRS   
1 Eastern Ill.   (11-1)   25.30   
2   North Dakota St.   (11-0)   23.17   
3   Eastern Wash.   (10-2)   19.05   
4   Southeastern La.   (10-2)   18.12   
5   McNeese St.   (10-2)   16.25   
6   Fordham   (11-1)   16.00   
7 Coastal Caro.   (10-2)   15.68   
8   Montana   (10-2)   15.64   
9   Towson   (10-2)   15.55   
10   Maine   (10-2)   15.54   
11   Northern Ariz.   (9-2)   14.54   
12   Jacksonville St.   (9-3)   13.50   
13   Bethune-Cookman   (10-2)   13.39   
14   Harvard   (9-1)   13.32  (does not participate in playoffs)   
15   Tennessee St.   (9-3)   13.09   
16   Charleston So.   (10-3)   11.81   
17   South Dakota St.   (8-4)   10.01   
18 South Carolina St.   (9-3)   9.38   
19   Princeton   (8-2)   9.37   (does not participate in playoffs)
20   Sacred Heart   (10-2)   9.32   (NEC auto bid)
21   Southern Utah   (8-4)   9.19   (Won at FBS South Alabama(finished 6-6)..... also played and lost to Washington State(FBS)... 7 D1 wins... best FCS wins were Montana State(7-5), Portland State(6-6).... I think Southern Utah was deserving of at-large bid)

22   Tenn.-Martin   (7-5)   9.03   (Only 1 OOC home game... OOC schedule was 2 FBS teams (losses at Boise State and Memphis)and wins at Chattanooga(8-4, T1st SoCon) and home against Central Arkansas(7-5).... In the OVC, won at EKU(6-6/4-4) and beat Murray State(6-6/4-4).... DESERVED AT LARGE BID )

23   Sam Houston St.   (8-4)   8.69   NOT DESERVING OF AT-LARGE BID . I think they got into the playoffs due to playing in the FCS Title games in the 2011 and 2012 seasons. Had a high quality win over Eastern Washington(10-2 regular season, Big Sky Champs and #3 playoff seed)...next best win was Northwestern State(6-6).... had wins over 2 non FCS teams for scheduling purposes... Houston Baptist and Incarnate Word)

24   Youngstown St.   (8-4)   8.15   (Lost final 3 regular season games...finished in 4 way tie for 2nd in MVFC, but lost to SDSU.... played 3 partial or non scholarship FCS teams.... Only quality win was SIU(7-5) ) 

25   Samford   (8-4)   7.85   (Finished 8-4/6-2 and T1st with UT-Chattanooga and Furman in SoCon, ... OOC schedule was win at FBS Georgia State, loss at Arkansas, 34-31 home loss to SE Louisiana(#4 playoff seed, 10-2 regular season, Southland Champs) and a win over FAMU(3-9, but full scholarship FCS)..also beat UT-Chattanooga(8-4) and Georgia Southern(7-4).... I believe Samford was deserving of an at-large bid based on T1st in SoCon, win over FBS team, quality wins over UTC and Georgia Southern, and all full scholarship teams on OOC schedule )

26   Chattanooga   (8-4)   7.70   (Finished T1st in SoCon, and DID NOT MAKE PLAYOFFS.. lost 17-14 in OT to Samford in game 11, and then at Alabama in final week of the season ..also lost to UT-Martin(#22 SRS) and Georgia Southern(7-4) ... beat Furman(7-5/6-2 regular season, won SoCon auto bid)...also beat FBS opponent Georgia State, and did not play ANY non scholarship or partial scholarship FCS teams...... UTC was more deserving of an at large bid than New Hampshire and Sam Houston State based on T1st in SoCon and OOC schedule)

27   Old Dominion   (8-4)   7.20   (Ineligible for playoffs due to making transition to FBS)
28   Lehigh   (8-3)   7.15   
29   New Hampshire   (7-4)   6.66 (Not sure how NHU received an at-large bid? ....finished 6-2 in CAA and T2nd with Towson...lost to Towson... other losses were at CMU(FBS), at Lehigh(8-3) and at William & Mary(7-5)....Best wins were Villanova(6-5), and James Madison(6-6)... The lone OOC win was over Colgate(4-8/3-2 Patriot)

30   Central Ark.   (7-5)   6.24

***I think UT-Chattanooga and UT-Martin are the 2 teams left out of the playoffs with the best arguments they were deserving of at-large bids. I'd put YSU as 3rd most deserving of teams left out of playoffs, because of weak OOC schedule and only 1 quality win(SIU 7-5).
YSU was more deserving than SHSU and New Hampshire.

[Penguin Nation]

I agree that the weak OOC schedule is a liability for the FB program in terms of SOS, playoff eligibility, fan or media  interest.....well everything actually.  It is a boneheaded attempt to compensate for participation in a juggernaut conference.

The Penguin Playbook interview with Mike Kern last week left me with the impression that the MVFC is dismissive of the interests and concerns of its member schools.  Citing the SRS criteria (we've proven above that: a) the SRS varies from all other polls, and b) the selection committee deviates from the SRS), and the lack of separation (absolute BS...you can always find separation if you look for it).  Kern then brought up the nearly irrelevant ISUb schedule when Hannon asked him about YSU's travel schedule.  I was not left with the impression that Kern advocates for the advancement of the  MVFC.

MVFC play will deliver 3-4 losses to top shelf FCS teams.  All 8-4 (or better) MVFC should be in...and maybe a 7-5 or two.  Another selection committee travesty like we saw in 2013 must mean we are out of the MVFC.  It will be apparent at that time that the league does not serve our interests, and does not even try to serve our interests.

The Wolf said last night that he likes the MVFC, and that it reminds him of the SEC.  Ironically, membership in the MVFC may return him to the SEC as an assistant.

[penguinpower]

Final 2013 SRS for the Top 30 teams in the SRS. I made the NON-PLAYOFF teams in bold:
http://www.championshipsubdivision.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=38125

RANK   /TEA   RECORD/NCAASRS   
1 Eastern Ill.   (11-1)   25.30   
2   North Dakota St.   (11-0)   23.17   
3   Eastern Wash.   (10-2)   19.05   
4   Southeastern La.   (10-2)   18.12   
5   McNeese St.   (10-2)   16.25   
6   Fordham   (11-1)   16.00   
7 Coastal Caro.   (10-2)   15.68   
8   Montana   (10-2)   15.64   
9   Towson   (10-2)   15.55   
10   Maine   (10-2)   15.54   
11   Northern Ariz.   (9-2)   14.54   
12   Jacksonville St.   (9-3)   13.50   
13   Bethune-Cookman   (10-2)   13.39   
14   Harvard   (9-1)   13.32  (does not participate in playoffs)   
15   Tennessee St.   (9-3)   13.09   
16   Charleston So.   (10-3)   11.81   
17   South Dakota St.   (8-4)   10.01   
18 South Carolina St.   (9-3)   9.38   
19   Princeton   (8-2)   9.37   (does not participate in playoffs)
20   Sacred Heart   (10-2)   9.32   (NEC auto bid)
21   Southern Utah   (8-4)   9.19   (Won at FBS South Alabama(finished 6-6)..... also played and lost to Washington State(FBS)... 7 D1 wins... best FCS wins were Montana State(7-5), Portland State(6-6).... I think Southern Utah was deserving of at-large bid)

22   Tenn.-Martin   (7-5)   9.03   (Only 1 OOC home game... OOC schedule was 2 FBS teams (losses at Boise State and Memphis)and wins at Chattanooga(8-4, T1st SoCon) and home against Central Arkansas(7-5).... In the OVC, won at EKU(6-6/4-4) and beat Murray State(6-6/4-4).... DESERVED AT LARGE BID )

23   Sam Houston St.   (8-4)   8.69   NOT DESERVING OF AT-LARGE BID . I think they got into the playoffs due to playing in the FCS Title games in the 2011 and 2012 seasons. Had a high quality win over Eastern Washington(10-2 regular season, Big Sky Champs and #3 playoff seed)...next best win was Northwestern State(6-6).... had wins over 2 non FCS teams for scheduling purposes... Houston Baptist and Incarnate Word)

24   Youngstown St.   (8-4)   8.15   (Lost final 3 regular season games...finished in 4 way tie for 2nd in MVFC, but lost to SDSU.... played 3 partial or non scholarship FCS teams.... Only quality win was SIU(7-5) ) 

25   Samford   (8-4)   7.85   (Finished 8-4/6-2 and T1st with UT-Chattanooga and Furman in SoCon, ... OOC schedule was win at FBS Georgia State, loss at Arkansas, 34-31 home loss to SE Louisiana(#4 playoff seed, 10-2 regular season, Southland Champs) and a win over FAMU(3-9, but full scholarship FCS)..also beat UT-Chattanooga(8-4) and Georgia Southern(7-4).... I believe Samford was deserving of an at-large bid based on T1st in SoCon, win over FBS team, quality wins over UTC and Georgia Southern, and all full scholarship teams on OOC schedule )

26   Chattanooga   (8-4)   7.70   (Finished T1st in SoCon, and DID NOT MAKE PLAYOFFS.. lost 17-14 in OT to Samford in game 11, and then at Alabama in final week of the season ..also lost to UT-Martin(#22 SRS) and Georgia Southern(7-4) ... beat Furman(7-5/6-2 regular season, won SoCon auto bid)...also beat FBS opponent Georgia State, and did not play ANY non scholarship or partial scholarship FCS teams...... UTC was more deserving of an at large bid than New Hampshire and Sam Houston State based on T1st in SoCon and OOC schedule)

27   Old Dominion   (8-4)   7.20   (Ineligible for playoffs due to making transition to FBS)
28   Lehigh   (8-3)   7.15   
29   New Hampshire   (7-4)   6.66 (Not sure how NHU received an at-large bid? ....finished 6-2 in CAA and T2nd with Towson...lost to Towson... other losses were at CMU(FBS), at Lehigh(8-3) and at William & Mary(7-5)....Best wins were Villanova(6-5), and James Madison(6-6)... The lone OOC win was over Colgate(4-8/3-2 Patriot)

30   Central Ark.   (7-5)   6.24

***I think UT-Chattanooga and UT-Martin are the 2 teams left out of the playoffs with the best arguments they were deserving of at-large bids. I'd put YSU as 3rd most deserving of teams left out of playoffs, because of weak OOC schedule and only 1 quality win(SIU 7-5).
YSU was more deserving than SHSU and New Hampshire.

The issue with your assessment is that you are on assuming that all FCS wins are equal when in fact they are not. We could have bulldozed several other conferences last year even with a shaky defense.   

[Penguin Nation]

I would not put much stock into Samford's FBS win at GA State...who went 0-12.......especially when YSU plays Rose Bowl and Big 10 champs Michigan State.

[HappyPenguin]

They are considered equal. Thats why our 3 weenie games count as D1 wins.

[penguinpower]

They are considered equal. Thats why our 3 weenie games count as D1 wins.

That is why strength of schedule matters.  They used to have the Gridiron Power Index.  It was supposed to be considered in the SRS if I recall correctly. And the Weenie games are D1 wins.  They stopped scheduling D2 games after we were left out in 2007 because the D2 win didn't count.  The weenie games won't impact the GPI as badly is you fare well and your conference fares well, but that is long gone and more subjective than ever. 

The real question goes back to YSUBR's comments.  The best 24 teams should get in.  Were we a top 24 team last year?  YES.  Did we get in?  NO  Did we get screwed once again?  YES

[HappyPenguin]

They are considered equal. Thats why our 3 weenie games count as D1 wins.

That is why strength of schedule matters.  They used to have the Gridiron Power Index.  It was supposed to be considered in the SRS if I recall correctly. And the Weenie games are D1 wins.  They stopped scheduling D2 games after we were left out in 2007 because the D2 win didn't count.  The weenie games won't impact the GPI as badly is you fare well and your conference fares well, but that is long gone and more subjective than ever. 

The real question goes back to YSUBR's comments.  The best 24 teams should get in.  Were we a top 24 team last year?  YES.  Did we get in?  NO  Did we get screwed once again?  YES

NCAA doesnt care about fair. Never have.

They want all conferences represented, regardless of actual performance. Otherwise those smaller conferences suffer from lack of exposure. They have a vested interest to keep them relevant.

Any idiot can see the MVFC is head and shoulders better. Well unless you work at sportsnetwork.

[lakesbison]

Face Facts.  Patty V has ZERO pull and cant influence a june bug.

NDSU had to do it the hard way by just winning every game and leaving it out of the committee's hands.

but seriously, the MVFC deserves 5 teams in this dogsh** FCS division, seriously, the top 25 teams are just embarassing.  NDSU, UNI, YSU, ISU, SDSU even SIU & IND ST would beat every team in the top 25 if given a shot in the playoffs.

[Penguin Nation]

Face Facts.  Patty V has ZERO pull and cant influence a june bug.

NDSU had to do it the hard way by just winning every game and leaving it out of the committee's hands.

but seriously, the MVFC deserves 5 teams in this dogsh** FCS division, seriously, the top 25 teams are just embarassing.  NDSU, UNI, YSU, ISU, SDSU even SIU & IND ST would beat every team in the top 25 if given a shot in the playoffs.

Lakes, if you guys are bored winning national championships, than lets move the entire MVFC up to the FBS.  Then we are done with the BS selection committee, and you guys can play in bowl games, and we can all laugh as we tear up MAC and Sun Belt teams.  Throw in more scholarships and you guys will be busting up your new rivals like Nebraska and Iowa (you are already busting up MN, IA State....).

You in?

[IAA Fan]

They want all conferences represented, regardless of actual performance. Otherwise those smaller conferences suffer from lack of exposure. They have a vested interest to keep them relevant.

That is EXACTLY how it should be Happy. EXACTLY. Why would you want it any other way?

The SEC was "allowed" to get away with anything because of $$$ from GE (ABC/ESPN). Now the future of the FBS/IA is "in the crapper". Do you want the same thing to happen to FCS/I-AA?

[ysubigred]

They want all conferences represented, regardless of actual performance. Otherwise those smaller conferences suffer from lack of exposure. They have a vested interest to keep them relevant.

That is EXACTLY how it should be Happy. EXACTLY. Why would you want it any other way?

The SEC was "allowed" to get away with anything because of $$$ from GE (ABC/ESPN). Now the future of the FBS/IA is "in the crapper". Do you want the same thing to happen to FCS/I-AA?

"IF" that's exactly how it should be then there should be no "b****ING" about the playoff snub. As long as the NCAA want to represent all conferences better teams will suffer and the best team will not get a chance to settle it on the field. I wonder how the playoff's will look at the 1FBS level with the every conference represented LOL!!

[GOpenZ]

I can not and will not haggle over the last teams in and out of the playoffs...unless the team being left out is a top 10 team.  Win your conference, win all your games or don't expect to be entitled to the playoffs, based upon tradition, conference affiliation or anything else. 

Separately just before I read this:

Face Facts.  Patty V has ZERO pull and cant influence a june bug.

NDSU had to do it the hard way by just winning every game and leaving it out of the committee's hands.

but seriously, the MVFC deserves 5 teams in this dogsh** FCS division, seriously, the top 25 teams are just embarassing.  NDSU, UNI, YSU, ISU, SDSU even SIU & IND ST would beat every team in the top 25 if given a shot in the playoffs.

Lakes, if you guys are bored winning national championships, than lets move the entire MVFC up to the FBS.  Then we are done with the BS selection committee, and you guys can play in bowl games, and we can all laugh as we tear up MAC and Sun Belt teams.  Throw in more scholarships and you guys will be busting up your new rivals like Nebraska and Iowa (you are already busting up MN, IA State....).

You in?

I thought this:
Adding to our conference, under the Grow or Die method.  As previously discussed, the major FBS conferences have moved to 16 teams (not that they care about travel costs)...should the conference look to add a few members and split the conference in an East and West division.  Obviously our own bias nature here is to help YSU, as we see the in-efficiencies in being the farthest team East in the league.  However, adding new teams will only add the same issues that we once faced…finding a separate conference for all other sports.  Thus, who would be another good fit for the Missouri Valley Conference or Horizon League? What about adding the likes of someone like:
 - Richmond
 - James Madison
 - Eastern Illinois
 - Eastern Kentucky
 - OVC team(s) from Tennessee
Then again, do we need to add in the most elite teams or can we just offer to any half-decent club that fits the mold for us for location?  Bringing any new team into the MVFC will help them...even those teams that are not mentioned.

New division conceptually
North or West(?)
NDSU
SDSU
South Dakota
UNI
Missouri State
*New team out West or pick your Illinois team to move

South or East (?)
YSU
Indiana State
Illinois State
Southern Illinois
Western Illinois
*New team in the East
*Potential 2nd new Eastern team (should an Illinois team move to the West division)

Z