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YSU Penguin Athletics => YSU Penguin Athletics => Topic started by: pioneer9 on September 21, 2014, 01:06:19 AM
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Now that non-conference play is winding down and everyone's looking forward to their conference foes, I wanted to get an early evaluation of the conference... How does the MVFC stack up here in 2014. And from what I can see pretty darn well. In fact, I'm thinking it looks to be the deepest the conference has ever been...
MVFC overall non-conference record (vs. FCS): 22-1
Two FBS Wins (NDSU and Indiana St)
Two Top 25 wins (#22 and #4) and a close loss to #4 (by South Dakota, typically lower tier in the MVFC)
Typical front-runners:
NDSU has been...well... NDSU. Beat #4 Montana
SDSU is still a mystery but history has shown us to have faith in the 'Rabbits
UNI has close loses to Hawaii and Iowa... now just need to starting earning some Ws back in FCS
Typical Mid-Tier:
YSU... say what you will but Illinois is 3-1 and Duquesne will be a playoff team come the end of the season.
Ill St... Havent played anybody overly difficult but have the pieces to have a good season
Ind St... beat Ball State and Tenn Tech
Mizz St... Solid wins over Central Arkansas and SWSU
Southern Ill... Destroyed SE Mizz St who then turned around and beat #3 SE Louisiana
Typical Lower-Tier:
Western Illinois... Actually outgained Northwestern, with turnovers ruining a chance at yet another close FBS game for the MVFC... Currently 2-2
South Dakota... Win over #22 N. Arizona and close loss to #4 Montana
You look at the schedule this year and it just seems like there is never a "week off" for the Quins (which is as much a good thing as it is a bad thing). Looking at the depth of the conference (at least through the first 4 weeks), it would be criminal to not invite at least 4 teams to the postseason...
The Big Sky got that last year and everyone but Eastern Washington got killed their first game. I think the MVFC is more than deserving, even if that means sending an 8-4 to the postseason. Only problem is I think the Missouri Valley is going to pull a traditional SEC (I hate to use that example) and beat each other up. Let's just hope the committee has more sense than to just look at records and play favorites...
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FWIW, Massey has 9 of the 10 MVFC in its FCS Top 25. WIU is #26.
MSU an early 6 point edge over YSU per Massey, which has the Bears #3 right now in its computer rankings. Huge one at the renovated Plaster Complex next week. They are already promoting the game bigtime in Springfield, we should take notes, and they are hoping for their 2nd straight sell-out.
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The MVFC is the best in FCS. You are right and I agree with you, we will beat each other up in conference play, just as they have the past couple of seasons. The FCS really does need to question their judgements on who gets in to the playoffs... An 8-4 team in the MVFC, is probably a 10-2, or 11-1 team in almost all other conferences. No love shown to them when it comes to Playoff selections, I have begun to wonder if someone on the selection committee has something against YSU, or if someone from YSU pissed in someones wheaties! NDSU is strong as usual, are they the same NDSU as the past couple seasons, no, but they are still very strong, tough, and know how to win football games. UNI is very good as well, they have impressed me the most, the Iowa game was very enjoyable to watch as I was switching back and fourth between that game and the Guins and Illinois. UNI can score, and score fast. UNI, and NDSU go out and look to bury teams, and go after them fast, there is no feeling around with them, they come and do what they need to do to win. The MVFC is good football, and it's nice to go into every week not knowing what is going to happen! Yes the Guins have their hands full every week, but so does every other team in the conference. Very excited, and interested to see how this season will pan out! Let's Go Guins! fb
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The MVFC is an FBS conference somehow misplaced in FCS FB.
The choice the YSU Athletic Department has is playoffs vs. MVFC membership plus a huge travel budget.
NDSU (and maybe even SDSU) is an unpaid blood game.
The rest of the MVFC (including YSU) would dominate most other FCS conferences.
Getting one at-large bid is scandalous...but the reality of the selection committee's biases.
So deciding to stay in the MVFC is = deciding to forego post-season.
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Pretty damn good.
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Being in the best conference means nothing to me if we are not in the upper tier and making the playoffs FCS is a joke on how they select the teams for the playoffs. Butler made the playoffs don't know if they offer scholarships and spend way less than we do for football than we do and they get in crappy conference and all. So in my eyes being in this conference means nothing. Its about making the playoffs not looking at who u play the first 3 games ...win the league and then we can have this discussion.
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Your playing in the league with most of the best teams in FCS, a little love by accepting more teams from this conference would be nice...
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I will agree that we get dissed during playoff discussions but this has happened year in year out...those committee people don't see it our way. Thats another thread about how our commish doesnt get it done.
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An FBS conference somehow misplaced in the FCS?? thats humorous.
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An FBS conference somehow misplaced in the FCS?? thats humorous.
Massey ranks the MVFC over the C-USA, and MAC...and until this week above the Sun Belt.
http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?s=cf2013&c=1
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We will find the competition in the MVFC will significantly increase over our 1st four games. In the 4 games played so far; we had 134 passes thrown by opposing QB's and only 1 interception which was then fumbled. These QB's were not All Americans.
We may win 4 or 5 games of our 8 conference games, but all of these games will be brutal!! During these 8 games; injuries will occur, lapses will occur and opposing coaches will make adjustments to their offenses and defenses at half time which has to be managed by our coaching staff.
Even NDSU, which is a very well oiled machine, will have trouble getting through the MVFC undefeated. The upper tier teams, some could lose 3 games, with every team beating each other up.
Thus, getting into the playoffs from the MVFC will be difficult. We must play with high intensity the entire game and get 6 wins to assure a playoff spot.
Some how maybe we will prevail! GO PENGUINS
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An FBS conference somehow misplaced in the FCS?? thats humorous.
I dont think their saying teams from the MVFC would win the National Title in FBS, but you don't think North Dakota, and UNI could hang in FBS..? Not sure if you follow some of the teams in the MVFC other than YSU, but there are some pretty good football teams...
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It is way to early in the season to start making playoff predictions. With that being said, some of you might take solace in knowing The Sports Network has a projected playoff bracket. There are 5 teams from the MVFC in their projected playoff bracket:
NDSU
SDSU
UNI
SIU
ISU(red)
YSU is one of 4 teams on the at-large bubble
http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=sportsnetwork&page=cfoot2/writers/infcshuddle/archive/haley_9_21_2014.htm
PROJECTED PLAYOFF FIELD
Looking at where teams may stand in a projected playoff bracket on Nov. 23, and not based on current records or conference standings:
Illinois State/Montana State winner at No. 1 seed North Dakota State
Southern Illinois/Eastern Kentucky winner at No. 8 seed McNeese State
Bethune-Cookman/Chattanooga winner at No. 5 seed Jacksonville State
Fordham/Liberty winner at No. 4 seed New Hampshire
Tennessee State/Montana winner at No. 6 seed Southeastern Louisiana
Sacred Heart/Northern Iowa winner at No. 3 seed Villanova
Richmond/North Carolina A&T winner at No. 7 seed Coastal Carolina
Jacksonville/South Dakota State winner at No. 2 seed Eastern Washington
On the at-large bubble: Sacramento State, Delaware, William & Mary and Youngstown State
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Don't read TSN's bullsh**. They wrote an article Sunday that said the CAA is the deepest conference too. Last time I checked the MVFC is 22-1 against other FCS conferences and has 2 FBS wins. The two cellar dwellers in the MVFC have wins against an FBS opponent and a ranked FCS opponent. And that only loss is by is #4 Montana in a close game. The following week that bottom dweller knocked off a top 25 NAU team.
TSN is sending subliminal messages to help influence votes for the CAA. Their sportswriters are worth a $0.50 roll of toilet paper. It is hard to believe they even wrote those words this year.
So far the CAA is 0-13 against FBS competition and 18-6 vs Other FCS conferences. Of the 6 losses three have come to partial scholarship NEC teams. They also have a loss to a Patriot League team but I'm not sure if they are full scholarship or not. Either way TSN's claim that the CAA is the deepest conferemce is complete bullsh**. It's like watching MSNBC spreading their lies.
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The MVFC is an FBS conference somehow misplaced in FCS FB.
The choice the YSU Athletic Department has is playoffs vs. MVFC membership plus a huge travel budget.
NDSU (and maybe even SDSU) is an unpaid blood game.
The rest of the MVFC (including YSU) would dominate most other FCS conferences.
Getting one at-large bid is scandalous...but the reality of the selection committee's biases.
So deciding to stay in the MVFC is = deciding to forego post-season.
Agree 100%
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The MVFC is an FBS conference somehow misplaced in FCS FB.
The choice the YSU Athletic Department has is playoffs vs. MVFC membership plus a huge travel budget.
NDSU (and maybe even SDSU) is an unpaid blood game.
The rest of the MVFC (including YSU) would dominate most other FCS conferences.
Getting one at-large bid is scandalous...but the reality of the selection committee's biases.
So deciding to stay in the MVFC is = deciding to forego post-season.
Just think how good most of the MVFC teams would be given the full allotment of FBS scholarships :-[
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I will agree that we get dissed during playoff discussions but this has happened year in year out...those committee people don't see it our way. Thats another thread about how our commish doesnt get it done.
It also doesn't help that SDS last year, ILS in 2012 and UNI in 2011 all suffered blowout losses in the playoffs. Coming into this season, followers of the other conferences view the MVFC as consisting of one of the all-time greatest teams, and a bunch of average teams. Hopefully this year's success in the out of conference games changes that opinion.
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So far the CAA is 0-13 against FBS competition and 18-6 vs Other FCS conferences. Of the 6 losses four have come to partial scholarship teams from the NEC and Patriot League.
TSN's claim that the CAA is the deepest conferemce is complete bullsh**.
Quoting myself
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So far the CAA is 0-13 against FBS competition and 18-6 vs Other FCS conferences. Of the 6 losses four have come to partial scholarship teams from the NEC and Patriot League.
TSN's claim that the CAA is the deepest conferemce is complete bullsh**.
Quoting myself
Me too! The facts speak for themselves here. No amount of homerism \ fanboy love can make this go away
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Penguinpower I agree, the statement that the CAA is the deepest is garbage! Thankfully conference play is here now.
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Penguinpower I agree, the statement that the CAA is the deepest is garbage! Thankfully conference play is here now.
Tell your brother we are looking for some big plays out of everyone, but more importantly to play a complete game and communicate with each other better between plays and drives. Seems like the kids don't discuss much about what the other team is doing on the sidelines. Communicate with the coaches and among themselves.
Missouri State needs to receive payback after the loss 2 years ago knocked us out of the playoffs.
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So far the CAA is 0-13 against FBS competition and 18-6 vs Other FCS conferences. Of the 6 losses four have come to partial scholarship teams from the NEC and Patriot League.
TSN's claim that the CAA is the deepest conferemce is complete bullsh**.
The Sagarin ratings certainly don't back up TSN's claim.
75 Villanova AA = 68.12
93 New Hampshire AA = 63.40
129 William & Mary AA = 58.07
136 Richmond AA = 57.32
160 James Madison AA = 52.24
164 Maine AA = 51.63
167 Albany-NY AA = 51.34
168 Delaware AA = 50.69
173 Towson AA = 50.30
189 Stony Brook AA = 46.95
200 Elon AA = 44.89
212 Rhode Island AA = 41.51
43 North Dakota State AA = 76.31
70 South Dakota State AA = 69.34
82 Northern Iowa AA = 66.50
101 Southern Illinois AA = 62.18
104 Missouri State AA = 62.04
110 Illinois State AA = 61.38
111 Youngstown State AA = 60.77
150 South Dakota AA = 54.41
151 Indiana State AA = 54.16
174 Western Illinois AA = 50.28
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Will do penguinpower. Hoping that having these two weeks to prep will benefit the team, and we wiil see them coming out firing on all cylinders. Alot of skill at the skill positions on this team, should be able to put up some points.
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I've been watching YSU football since the early 90's and I haven't seen the Gateway/MVFC this deep and strong ever. In years past, there were some games you could almost count as W's such as Indiana St when they were in the middle of their losing streak, Western Illinois some years and Illinois State last year however there are none on the schedule this year. Next week at Missouri State will really set the tone for the rest of the season. A road win would really help jump start our playoff push.
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I agree. Winning at Missouri St would be a HUGE boost to the start of the conference season. They have a brand new stadium and trying to have a big record crowd. They are already hyping this game up big time for their fans....
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The reality is as good as we have recruited under Wolf, the MVFC has, for the most part, recruited as well or better. Talent level is high. Very high. In NDSU's case, extremely high. Record against the FCS games is instant proof. I would also note that many MVFC players are making the Pros in good numbers. Dog eat dog league.
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The reality is as good as we have recruited under Wolf, the MVFC has, for the most part, recruited as well or better. Talent level is high. Very high. In NDSU's case, extremely high. Record against the FCS games is instant proof. I would also note that many MVFC players are making the Pros in good numbers. Dog eat dog league.
No doubt here. I wonder how we'd do in the CAA or OVC? Probably wouldn't be calling for blanket staff firings.
Gotta beat who you play though, "no excuses" ;)
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Plain and simple, YSU last deserved to make the playoffs in 2006, and they made the playoffs in 06. YSU did NOT deserve the playoffs in 2001, despite going 8-3. They had only 6 wins over D1 teams, and lost to the top 2 teams in the MVFC.
The 2005 team went 8-3, but lost at UNI and SIU in back-to-back weeks. That team had a win over D2 Slippery Rock. They lost 41-0 at PITT.
None of the teams under Wolford deserved to be in the playoffs. A team that finishes the regular season with 3 losses in a row, the last 2 at home is not deserving of a playoff birth. Also, the first loss in that 3 game losing streak was at a UNI team depleted by injuries, which was 0-5 in the MVFC at the time the teams played.
I think the MVFC has trouble getting more than 2 teams in the playoffs many seasons because of the conferences OVERALL performance in the playoffs. The OOC schedules of teams such as YSU do not help.
Here are 2 links from the Nolan Power Index. Take it for what it is worth. The 1st is the SOS for every team in FCS. The only team from the MVFC in top 20 of SOS is Missouri State at #19. This is only ONE computer rating system, so it is not a be all, end all.
http://warrennolan.com/football1aa/2014/sos
As for the Nolan Power Index, the MVFC is represented well:
1 - NDSU
7 - ISU
8 - MSU
12 - Indy State
15 - SIU
18 - SDSU
20 - YSU
45 - WIU
59 - South Dakota
61 - UNI
http://warrennolan.com/football1aa/2014/npi
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Warren Nolan site is bullsh**. SHSU played a do team. The sos has is favoring a conference
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Listening to Penguin Playbook last night, I thought Mike Kern was dismissive ( and even condescending) regarding concerns raised by Bob Hannon re: YSU's MVFC-related travel, and lack of MVFC at-large bids.
If I were the YSU AD, I would feel that YSU needs to re-evaluate conference affiliation after the 2014 season. If the MVFC only receives 1-2 at-large bids....than it becomes a no brainer.
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What did Kern say?
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What did Kern say?
He said that the allotment of at large bids to he MVFC by the selection committee was appropriate. He noted YSU's 2011 Mizz State loss and also three straight season ending losses in 2013 as reason for YSU not getting in. When asked about travel, he referred to Indiana State's OOC schedule (which has little to do with YSU or the MVFC). I heard his car door during the interview. I think he was doing the interview while driving....further displaying how he (doesn't) prioritize(s) YSU.
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I think that you guys are being a little unfair to Kern. The issue began back when the football merged with the rest of the MVC. Heck now they even call it "Valley Football". In my mind, it is going to quickly get to the point where if we are not in the MVC, then why bother?
Football is just as much an after thought for any of the clubs, as it is for the conference and Kern. Kern wants NCAA MBB Tourney dollar$ far more than any football trophy.
Secondly, talk said well, we had 2 coach H teams (arguably 3) that deserved the post-season. We have had no coach W teams that deserved consideration.
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Secondly, talk said well, we had 2 coach H teams (arguably 3) that deserved the post-season. We have had no coach W teams that deserved consideration.
In the final 2013 Sports Network poll, YSU was ranked 18th.
These at-large bids were ranked lower: Samford (19), S Utah (21), and SC State (25)
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I think that you guys are being a little unfair to Kern. The issue began back when the football merged with the rest of the MVC. Heck now they even call it "Valley Football". In my mind, it is going to quickly get to the point where if we are not in the MVC, then why bother?
Football is just as much an after thought for any of the clubs, as it is for the conference and Kern. Kern wants NCAA MBB Tourney dollar$ far more than any football trophy.
Secondly, talk said well, we had 2 coach H teams (arguably 3) that deserved the post-season. We have had no coach W teams that deserved consideration.
I disagree. 8 wins is 8 wins no matter when or how you get them. Timing is bullsh**. SHSU had only 6 D1 wins and got in over us last year.
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Timing is bullsh**.
It is interesting that the MVFC schedules YSU against UNI, SDSU, and NDSU as its final three games....and then Kern cites losing the final three games as a justification for being denied an at-large bid.
How Samford, SC State, or S Utah would have fared in those three games?
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Some good points, especially when it come to the selections from other conferences; but two things:
1) When a school boy loses a fight, the argument that "my dad is stronger than yours" does not equate. The fact remains that the young lad lost his brawl, as YSU lost their last 3 games in 2013; so who cares what conference anyone (who did get in) is from? We lost 3 games & that left us with nothing but "talking points". Win at least one of the NDSU or SDSU games and we were in. Better yet, win all three and take NDSU's #1 seed.
2) The NCAA cannot afford to be unfair to any conference. Maybe the MVFC is stronger than some other conferences, but if the NCAA does not award bids to the less powerful conferences ...then those conferences will always be "less powerful". Personally I do not believe in any at-large bids; there should be a fixed number from bids from each conference. This will keep "super conferences" from developing.
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I agree with IAAFan about #1 and would push it even farther. Everyone seems to forget that some of the selection committee watched last year's SDSU game and made their judgment on what they saw. YSU was on the bubble and everybody knew it. SDSU came to play; YSU didn't. If you were at that game, you know what a fiasco this was for YSU. This game alone would have been reason not to renew W's contract.
I disagree with IAAFan about #2. FCS needs ratings and to get this FCS needs the best at-large teams in the playoffs, though it is possible that the FCS selection committee is so blind that it doesn't get this point. Contrary to what some on this board say, YSU has some of the better attended games in FCS and its presence would be a plus. It's actually beneficial to FCS financially to include us if for no other reason than the ticket revenue. Watch the video feeds from some of the other schools and you'll never complain about attendance at a YSU game ever again.
The debate over whether YSU is an FCS superpower would end if we actually played teams from the Southland, OVC, and CAA in our OOC schedule. We've deceived ourselves that selection is based solely on the number of wins and that the committee will be really impressed by beating up Butler, when it clearly isn't nor should it be. Given the substantial increases to the athletic budget over the past several years, money can't be used as the issue for not upgrading the schedule. I personally think we are chicken and YSU has put itself in this position. I like Strollo and think he does a great job with limited resources, but on FB scheduling he is wrong.
And frankly, I don't care if we lose $200K if we give up a home game to play a good FCS opponent. That money will come back in other ways--more fans in the stands, more businesses wanting to advertise with YSU, more ESPN exposure.
IAAFan is also wrong about Coke. :)
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Hey Spider , I saw a replay of one of our home "games" this year. Fat Boy Love stated they book these for the loge fans. Nothing mentioned about the fans in the seats. I guess we know where we stand. You are correct , we should get another money game.
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Spider Legs, I agree with your comments about the selection committee members watching the SDSU game. I also agree with you that the ONLY way to prove to the selection committee and rest of the country that YSU and other teams in the MFVC are as good/better as the top teams in the CAA, OVC and SoCon is to play these teams in the regular season. Same with the Big Sky, and to their credit, NDSU, SDSU, and ND typically play at least 1 team from the Big Sky. Unfortunately, as has been pointed out, the OOC schedule appears to be set up to appease the people who rent the loges. This is fine, but the scheduling strategy has not helped YSU come playoff time. I'm not even sure how well it helps YSU in preparing for the teams in the MVFC.
Consistently making the playoffs provides the potential for at least 1 more home game for those in the loges to watch. And, it is also the best way to get more people to attend the games. I know YSU does not get the profits from ticket sales for playoff games, but they still make money from parking, concessions, and souvenirs. These are also extra games for the people who rent/lease the loges, and another opportunity to get people onto the YSU campus, and generate some school and community excitement. If being a consistent playoff increases both tickets sold and actual attendance in the regular season, that leads to more revenue. Depending on the size of the increase, it may well make up all or most of the supposed $200,000 in revenue YSU makes per home game.
As for the person who asked why SDSU made the playoffs over YSU last season, the teams tied for 2nd place in the MFVC. They played head-to-head, and SDSU won. As for the "conspiracy" theory of YSU playing their final 3 games against UNI, NDSU and SDSU, give me a break. The final 2 games were at home. UNI was 4-5/0-5 and depleted by injuries when they played YSU. A team deserving of the playoffs surely could have gone 1-2 in these 3 games. Had YSU gone 1-2, they would have been in the playoffs.
In 2011, YSU played Missouri State in the final game, at home. Missouri State came into the game with 1-9/1-6. Win that game, and YSU was in the playoffs. They lost 38-34, after leading 27-10 at halftime. Let me type that again. YSU was beating a team with a 1-9 record 27-10 at halftime, playing at home, and lost 38-34.
In 2012, YSU finished the season with South Dakota, at WIU and Indiana State, 3 bottom tier teams. Had YSU simply gone 1-3 in October, they likely would have made the playoffs at 8-4/5-3, especially with a season opening win at PITT.
The conspiracy theories get old. Under both Heacock and Wolford, YSU has gone back to finding ways to lose winnable games against quality teams, and even mediocre teams. The same kind of games needed to win if wanting to make the playoffs. The very games the Tressel coached teams in 87, and then 89-2000 more often than not found ways to win.
Under Heacock, it was a 24-14 home loss to WKU in 2001. YSU entered the game ranked in the Top 10 at 6-1/4-1. WKU was 5-2/2-1. YDU also lost that year at UNI.
In 2002, it was a 13-7 loss at WKU. A game in which YSU had 3 TO's, including 2 INT's in the 4th qtr, and a fumble inside the WKU 5 yard line at the end of the 1st half, with WKU leading 10-7. One of the 2 INT's was in the 4th qtr, with YSU inside the WKU 20. YSU finished 7-4/4-2. YSU also lost to UNI, this time at home. UNI finished 5-6/2-5, yet won 22-7 at YSU. ??? ???
In 2005, it was back-to-back road losses at UNI and SIU, after YSU started the season 7-1/4-0. YSU was ranked 11th. UNI was 4-3/2-2, and essentially playing for their playoff lives. UNI won 21-7. The next week, YSU lost 31-17 at SIU, in a game YSU led 17-7 at halftime.
I agree with all the people saying that THIS YEAR, it will be a travesty if the MVFC only gets 2 teams into the playoffs. I believe the MFVC will get more than 2 teams into the playoffs, but not so sure YSU will be one of those teams. The reason is simple. Under Wolford, YSU has not shown an ability to win big games. The lone exceptions were in 2011 at NDSU, and 2012 at PITT. The win at NDSU in 2011 was followed up with a 38-34 home loss to Missouri State to end the season. Remember, this was a home game against a team with a record of (1-9/1-6) and YSU led 27-10 at halftime. . The 2012 win at PITT was followed up with an 0-4 in October.
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And let's not forget that last year's team allowed UNI to score 16 points in the fourth quarter after holding UNI to 6 during the first 3 quarters. There's a consistent pattern here of W. teams not being able to finish a season.
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The Valley is now 23-1 in non-conference FCS play. Indiana State beat up a halfway decent Lehigh team today.
SIU takes down WIU in MVFC opener.
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The Valley is now 23-1 in non-conference FCS play. Indiana State beat up a halfway decent Lehigh team today.
SIU takes down WIU in MVFC opener.
#22 Liberty plus they have an FBS win as well. They have a very impressive resume thus far
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The Valley is now 23-1 in non-conference FCS play. Indiana State beat up a halfway decent Lehigh team today.
SIU takes down WIU in MVFC opener.
Pretty impressive start..
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I like the way Kirk Herbstreit put it when he discussed Baylor just after 10:00am on GameDay this week. He noted how Baylor has done well over the last few years and has moved up from the bottom of the Big12. He mentioned how during their time of transition that it was good to play lower competition to get as many wins as possible. But now...they need to schedule better teams to stay near the top of the division and maintain their exposure (something they did not do this year).
Z
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"IF" the MVFC was getting the full complement of schollies (FBS) I'd say this conference would not be too far behind the (http://grfx.cstv.com/schools/big10/graphics/big10-14-mast-logo-lg.png)
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Secondly, talk said well, we had 2 coach H teams (arguably 3) that deserved the post-season. We have had no coach W teams that deserved consideration.
In the final 2013 Sports Network poll, YSU was ranked 18th.
These at-large bids were ranked lower: Samford (19), S Utah (21), and SC State (25)
It appears that Samford was ranked lower than YSU not just on the Sports Network poll, but also the actual SRS, and yet still received an at-large bid over YSU:
http://www.championshipsubdivision.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=38125
Some concerns expressed with the SRS:
http://www.championshipsubdivision.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=38146
Does the playoff selection committee have a bias toward smaller schools and smaller conferences? I would say yes. I'm not claiming that the YSU FB program would have gone deep in the post-season, or even that it is not a disappointment considering all of the resources it has. I'm just saying there appears to be irregularities in the selection process resulting in a selection bias by the committee.
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Secondly, talk said well, we had 2 coach H teams (arguably 3) that deserved the post-season. We have had no coach W teams that deserved consideration.
In the final 2013 Sports Network poll, YSU was ranked 18th.
These at-large bids were ranked lower: Samford (19), S Utah (21), and SC State (25)
It appears that Samford was ranked lower than YSU not just on the Sports Network poll, but also the actual SRS, and yet still received an at-large bid over YSU:
http://www.championshipsubdivision.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=38125
Some concerns expressed with the SRS:
http://www.championshipsubdivision.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=38146
Does the playoff selection committee have a bias toward smaller schools and smaller conferences? I would say yes. I'm not claiming that the YSU FB program would have gone deep in the post-season, or even that it is not a disappointment considering all of the resources it has. I'm just saying there appears to be irregularities in the selection process resulting in a selection bias by the committee.
This is an excellent post. I sent Viverito an email last year about this very issue and she was just as baffled. I speculate that some of the voters just don't like us. Maybe it has to do with Tressel/ Issac stuff....but we were also better than Sam Houston State last year and had a better record.
In years past when Heacock's teams were left out.........the same thing happened. One time they said it was not enough D1 wins, then next year we were left out we were told that we went 2-3 or 0-3 in games at the end of the season. All arbitrary and that is why I disagree that how you finish the year....it doesn't matter. 8 wins is 8 wins. The MVFC schedule for us last year was weighted heavy at the end. Not our fault. We may have been able to beat UNI if we had a better schedule. The timing was not good for us.
At the end of the day the only time we got in the playoffs since Tressel left is when we won the conference outright and that was in 2006. It didn't matter if we shared the league title and that is why conference championships mean nothing to me.....doesn't translate into playoff births. We won the title in 1997 but we didn't win the conference. The voting must be standardized. The SRS calculation is unknown. It has not been published. I have been looking for the equation. More backroom deals.
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In early Heacock HC years, the NCAA did not have clear rules, as the objective was how to make the division appear more positive and remain profitable. Teams refused to pay the fees. YSU paid well and had good crowds ...the results were more times selected and awarded home games. The fact that we played well made it even better.
However, let's face it ...teams do not have the chance to be so dominant without some "help" ;) ;)
Georgia Southern
Marshall
YSU
Appy State
ND State
and too a lesser degree Eastern Kentucky have all benefited from a more-than-generous amount of light being shed upon them by the NCAA.
Again, you cannot take only the nations perceived top teams and give them spots. If no one from the Ohio Valley Conference made the field, then athletes would not attend those schools and the conference would fold. Eventually so would the sub-division. If you want to grow the division, you need to spread the "seeds". Clearly the NCAA has recognized peoples concerns in the expansion of the play-off field.
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In the 10 years I have been on this board, this is officially the earliest you guys have ever started b****ing about the lack of respect for the conference and the anti-YSU conspiracy. I usually have to wait til November. Thanks! :P
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In the 10 years I have been on this board, this is officially the earliest you guys have ever started b****ing about the lack of respect for the conference and the anti-YSU conspiracy. I usually have to wait til November. Thanks! :P
The CAA has now become the little sisters of the poor with several (6 the last I checked) losses to NEC and Patriot league conference members. They essentially have 2 good teams which is Villanova and UNH while the MVFC has gone 23-1 in out of conference play with the single loss by 7 points to Montara. Yet the boobs over at the sports network are churning out articles that are titled "CAA football has a top 25 feel" and making statements such as "CAA football is the deepest conference in the FCS". Freaking Albany is in the top half this year and they have been full schedule for maybe a year. Wow! The other issue is that the CAA has no room to schedule MVFC or other power conference teams because the conference is "so big" yet they always seem to find a way to fit in an NEC team or a Patsy team. Interesting to say the least. TSN voters had 11 points for St. Francis. Unfortunately for us the FCS is an afterthought to 95% of the Walmartians that make up the US and so the voters and NCAA have no accountability in showing how teams are selected. What is really probably happening in the voters look at the TSN poll and assume everyone knows what they are talking about and the only have to evaluate the bubble teams. They know they can be as arbitrary as they want and there will be no consequences. Freaking Butler, Samford and SHSU were selected over YSU last year. You can't tell me that this is an anomaly. This happens all the time. Someone needs to pay the price for this travesty. What is is the drinking water in Eastern Pa? How could TSN even make those statements when the record clearly states otherwise? Care to answer that?
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In the 10 years I have been on this board, this is officially the earliest you guys have ever started b****ing about the lack of respect for the conference and the anti-YSU conspiracy. I usually have to wait til November. Thanks! :P
Really! Let's let Wolf blow a game by poor clock management and no second half adjustments before we command respect.
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In 2011 YSU didn't make the playoffs because they lost to the worst team in the league at home in the season finale, didn't deserve to make the playoffs. Last year lost to an injury depleted Northern Iowa team, they lost the final two games at home by a combined 47 points!!! Does that sound like a playoff team to you?
There is no conspiracy or dislike for YSU. Also add to the fact that if YSU keeps playing three scrimmages in September and not playing quality competition they are not going to get in as a bubble team. Northern Iowa at 7-5 was more worthy last year. Two of their losses to FBS teams, and they beat YSU.
As far back as Heacock's first year, there was a cry of conspiracy, yet, he lost at home to Western Kentucky with a playoff berth on the line, thats why YSU didn't make it.
We just haven't been good enough. One more reason YSU didn't get in last year, where was there a quality win? Maybe Southern Illinois, but they didn't beat a team that went to the playoffs.
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This playoff debate really contains two issues that should be separated. First, was YSU cheated out of a berth last season? Second, is the NCAA selection process fair or biased?
Let's dispose of the first issue quickly. By last Thanksgiving weekend, we were not a playoff caliber team. It was not just the three consecutive losses but also how they happened. The team flat out quit against SDSU. Also, we had no quarterback with both Hess and Nania down.
The scandal revolves around the second issue; namely, the clandestine FCS selection process. The numerical ratings that FBS used to position teams for bowl games may or may not have been valid, but it was transparent. The table was published weekly, and each team knew where they stood. I had hoped that the FCS committee would have done the same thing last season. They had promised to use a formula based upon strength of schedule. Yet they refused to release that table DURING the season. Then they awarded multiple bids to weak conferences while offering only two to the MFVC. Southern Illinois or Northern Iowa should have replaced us in the tournament. The best conference deserved at least three bids regardless of records. Just as heavyweight basketball conferences place multiple teams into the NCAA tournament even though some of those teams are barely over .500.
To have any credibility and to remove all talk of conspiracy, the FCS selection committee must release their internal numbers periodically during the season, say after the last weeks of September and October. Until they become transparent, they are open to charges of being corrupt.
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So YSU was not good enough to make the 2013 post-season.....but teams with lower SRS (as well as lower ranking in other polls) were good enough?
From what I've read, the SRS does not penalize teams for late season losses. It shouldn't, because if it did it would be a(nother) de facto penalty for membership in a strong conference. If the selection committee truly penalizes teams for end of the season skids, than maybe NDSU should have a bye week the last week. Maybe the MVFC should allow OOC opponents to finish the season.
Again...YSU's last 3 games were against teams ranked #1 (also national champions ), #14, and UNI who was ranked two weeks before we played them. That same 2013 UNI team defeated Iowa State, crushed McNeese (who was ranked 9th), and finished the season with three straight wins. All 5 UNI losses were in the #1 FCS conference....and three of the games went to OT...two of them double OT...and they lost to the national champs by one point.
McNeese took a much worse beating from UNI and made the playoffs (YSU lost by 2....McNeese lost by 35 points).
How would at-large teams like TN State or Jacksonville State have fared versus those three teams? I'm pretty sure it would have been an 0-3 curb-stomping for all three games.
Here's an AGS thread about the SRS:
http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?148321-SRS-released
I agree with the posters...the SRS produces results that wildly vary from nearly all other polls...including Massey which is a composite of polls. The SRS is claimed to factor in SOS....but if it does it must be given little weight.
BTW....it is not a conspiracy if it is a proven fact. A lower SRS team (Samford) made the 2013 post-season over a higher ranked team (YSU).
I agree with Wick. The final week (or even two weeks), every team should know the scenarios that exclude them or qualify them. There should be zero mystery after all of the scores are in on the final Saturday of regular season. The selection show should simply reveal the pairings, seeds, and venues.
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I would add that I sense that the lack of results that the Wolf has produced, and overall frustration with the program, has led to a negativity regarding the program.....and a "screw 'em they deserve nothing" attitude. >:(
I get it. As a life long fan I too am frustrated. But........lower ranked teams....who've also played bad games....should not be leapfrogging higher ranked teams in the post-season selection process.
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I would add that I sense that the lack of results that the Wolf has produced, and overall frustration with the program, has led to a negativity regarding the program.....and a "screw 'em they deserve nothing" attitude. >:(
I get it. As a life long fan I too am frustrated. But........lower ranked teams....who've also played bad games....should not be leapfrogging higher ranked teams in the post-season selection process.
This sums up my feelings exactly. Well put
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So YSU was not good enough to make the 2013 post-season.....but teams with lower SRS (as well as lower ranking in other polls) were good enough?
From what I've read, the SRS does not penalize teams for late season losses. It shouldn't, because if it did it would be a(nother) de facto penalty for membership in a strong conference. If the selection committee truly penalizes teams for end of the season skids, than maybe NDSU should have a bye week the last week. Maybe the MVFC should allow OOC opponents to finish the season.
Again...YSU's last 3 games were against teams ranked #1 (also national champions ), #14, and UNI who was ranked two weeks before we played them. That same 2013 UNI team defeated Iowa State, crushed McNeese (who was ranked 9th), and finished the season with three straight wins. All 5 UNI losses were in the #1 FCS conference....and three of the games went to OT...two of them double OT...and they lost to the national champs by one point.
McNeese took a much worse beating from UNI and made the playoffs (YSU lost by 2....McNeese lost by 35 points).
How would at-large teams like TN State or Jacksonville State have fared versus those three teams? I'm pretty sure it would have been an 0-3 curb-stomping for all three games.
Here's an AGS thread about the SRS:
http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?148321-SRS-released
I agree with the posters...the SRS produces results that wildly vary from nearly all other polls...including Massey which is a composite of polls. The SRS is claimed to factor in SOS....but if it does it must be given little weight.
BTW....it is not a conspiracy if it is a proven fact. A lower SRS team (Samford) made the 2013 post-season over a higher ranked team (YSU).
I agree with Wick. The final week (or even two weeks), every team should know the scenarios that exclude them or qualify them. There should be zero mystery after all of the scores are in on the final Saturday of regular season. The selection show should simply reveal the pairings, seeds, and venues.
Excellent Post!
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>:( I'm beating a dead horse here, but it won't get fixed till they stop giving auto bids and at-large bias bids. The best 16-24 teams period should play in the playoffs selected by polls-computer-strength of schedule-W/L record and conference strength. The human eye test and committee votes are way to bias. All conference champs can be seeds or just rewarded by their respective conference for a job well done ;) So be it if 10 of the best 24 teams come from one conference... That will force all the other dead beat conferences who want to settle it on the field to step it up.
Rant over,,,, YBR out!
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Why did the NCAA take down the 2013 FCS SRS?
http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/football/fcs/fcs-srs-poll
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I see the issue here. The NCAA only takes the poll into account in the event of a tie. So it really does not matter where you rank, unless you are in equal consideration with another team.
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Why did the NCAA take down the 2013 FCS SRS?
http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/football/fcs/fcs-srs-poll
Somebody needs to ask. I have been looking for this information and cannot find it anywhere. They used to have contact information listed but the scumbags took it down. I would send an email asking for the SRS calculation if I had the contact information.
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>:( I'm beating a dead horse here, but it won't get fixed till they stop giving auto bids and at-large bias bids. The best 16-24 teams period should play in the playoffs selected by polls-computer-strength of schedule-W/L record and conference strength. The human eye test and committee votes are way to bias. All conference champs can be seeds or just rewarded by their respective conference for a job well done ;) So be it if 10 of the best 24 teams come from one conference... That will force all the other dead beat conferences who want to settle it on the field to step it up.
Rant over,,,, YBR out!
I agree
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Final 2013 SRS for the Top 30 teams in the SRS. I made the NON-PLAYOFF teams in bold:
http://www.championshipsubdivision.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=38125
RANK /TEA RECORD/NCAASRS
1 Eastern Ill. (11-1) 25.30
2 North Dakota St. (11-0) 23.17
3 Eastern Wash. (10-2) 19.05
4 Southeastern La. (10-2) 18.12
5 McNeese St. (10-2) 16.25
6 Fordham (11-1) 16.00
7 Coastal Caro. (10-2) 15.68
8 Montana (10-2) 15.64
9 Towson (10-2) 15.55
10 Maine (10-2) 15.54
11 Northern Ariz. (9-2) 14.54
12 Jacksonville St. (9-3) 13.50
13 Bethune-Cookman (10-2) 13.39
14 Harvard (9-1) 13.32 (does not participate in playoffs)
15 Tennessee St. (9-3) 13.09
16 Charleston So. (10-3) 11.81
17 South Dakota St. (8-4) 10.01
18 South Carolina St. (9-3) 9.38
19 Princeton (8-2) 9.37 (does not participate in playoffs)
20 Sacred Heart (10-2) 9.32 (NEC auto bid)
21 Southern Utah (8-4) 9.19 (Won at FBS South Alabama(finished 6-6)..... also played and lost to Washington State(FBS)... 7 D1 wins... best FCS wins were Montana State(7-5), Portland State(6-6).... I think Southern Utah was deserving of at-large bid)
22 Tenn.-Martin (7-5) 9.03 (Only 1 OOC home game... OOC schedule was 2 FBS teams (losses at Boise State and Memphis)and wins at Chattanooga(8-4, T1st SoCon) and home against Central Arkansas(7-5).... In the OVC, won at EKU(6-6/4-4) and beat Murray State(6-6/4-4).... DESERVED AT LARGE BID )
23 Sam Houston St. (8-4) 8.69 NOT DESERVING OF AT-LARGE BID . I think they got into the playoffs due to playing in the FCS Title games in the 2011 and 2012 seasons. Had a high quality win over Eastern Washington(10-2 regular season, Big Sky Champs and #3 playoff seed)...next best win was Northwestern State(6-6).... had wins over 2 non FCS teams for scheduling purposes... Houston Baptist and Incarnate Word)
24 Youngstown St. (8-4) 8.15 (Lost final 3 regular season games...finished in 4 way tie for 2nd in MVFC, but lost to SDSU.... played 3 partial or non scholarship FCS teams.... Only quality win was SIU(7-5) )
25 Samford (8-4) 7.85 (Finished 8-4/6-2 and T1st with UT-Chattanooga and Furman in SoCon, ... OOC schedule was win at FBS Georgia State, loss at Arkansas, 34-31 home loss to SE Louisiana(#4 playoff seed, 10-2 regular season, Southland Champs) and a win over FAMU(3-9, but full scholarship FCS)..also beat UT-Chattanooga(8-4) and Georgia Southern(7-4).... I believe Samford was deserving of an at-large bid based on T1st in SoCon, win over FBS team, quality wins over UTC and Georgia Southern, and all full scholarship teams on OOC schedule )
26 Chattanooga (8-4) 7.70 (Finished T1st in SoCon, and DID NOT MAKE PLAYOFFS.. lost 17-14 in OT to Samford in game 11, and then at Alabama in final week of the season ..also lost to UT-Martin(#22 SRS) and Georgia Southern(7-4) ... beat Furman(7-5/6-2 regular season, won SoCon auto bid)...also beat FBS opponent Georgia State, and did not play ANY non scholarship or partial scholarship FCS teams...... UTC was more deserving of an at large bid than New Hampshire and Sam Houston State based on T1st in SoCon and OOC schedule)
27 Old Dominion (8-4) 7.20 (Ineligible for playoffs due to making transition to FBS)
28 Lehigh (8-3) 7.15
29 New Hampshire (7-4) 6.66 (Not sure how NHU received an at-large bid? ....finished 6-2 in CAA and T2nd with Towson...lost to Towson... other losses were at CMU(FBS), at Lehigh(8-3) and at William & Mary(7-5)....Best wins were Villanova(6-5), and James Madison(6-6)... The lone OOC win was over Colgate(4-8/3-2 Patriot)
30 Central Ark. (7-5) 6.24
***I think UT-Chattanooga and UT-Martin are the 2 teams left out of the playoffs with the best arguments they were deserving of at-large bids. I'd put YSU as 3rd most deserving of teams left out of playoffs, because of weak OOC schedule and only 1 quality win(SIU 7-5).
YSU was more deserving than SHSU and New Hampshire.
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I agree that the weak OOC schedule is a liability for the FB program in terms of SOS, playoff eligibility, fan or media interest.....well everything actually. It is a boneheaded attempt to compensate for participation in a juggernaut conference.
The Penguin Playbook interview with Mike Kern last week left me with the impression that the MVFC is dismissive of the interests and concerns of its member schools. Citing the SRS criteria (we've proven above that: a) the SRS varies from all other polls, and b) the selection committee deviates from the SRS), and the lack of separation (absolute BS...you can always find separation if you look for it). Kern then brought up the nearly irrelevant ISUb schedule when Hannon asked him about YSU's travel schedule. I was not left with the impression that Kern advocates for the advancement of the MVFC.
MVFC play will deliver 3-4 losses to top shelf FCS teams. All 8-4 (or better) MVFC should be in...and maybe a 7-5 or two. Another selection committee travesty like we saw in 2013 must mean we are out of the MVFC. It will be apparent at that time that the league does not serve our interests, and does not even try to serve our interests.
The Wolf said last night that he likes the MVFC, and that it reminds him of the SEC. Ironically, membership in the MVFC may return him to the SEC as an assistant.
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Final 2013 SRS for the Top 30 teams in the SRS. I made the NON-PLAYOFF teams in bold:
http://www.championshipsubdivision.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=38125
RANK /TEA RECORD/NCAASRS
1 Eastern Ill. (11-1) 25.30
2 North Dakota St. (11-0) 23.17
3 Eastern Wash. (10-2) 19.05
4 Southeastern La. (10-2) 18.12
5 McNeese St. (10-2) 16.25
6 Fordham (11-1) 16.00
7 Coastal Caro. (10-2) 15.68
8 Montana (10-2) 15.64
9 Towson (10-2) 15.55
10 Maine (10-2) 15.54
11 Northern Ariz. (9-2) 14.54
12 Jacksonville St. (9-3) 13.50
13 Bethune-Cookman (10-2) 13.39
14 Harvard (9-1) 13.32 (does not participate in playoffs)
15 Tennessee St. (9-3) 13.09
16 Charleston So. (10-3) 11.81
17 South Dakota St. (8-4) 10.01
18 South Carolina St. (9-3) 9.38
19 Princeton (8-2) 9.37 (does not participate in playoffs)
20 Sacred Heart (10-2) 9.32 (NEC auto bid)
21 Southern Utah (8-4) 9.19 (Won at FBS South Alabama(finished 6-6)..... also played and lost to Washington State(FBS)... 7 D1 wins... best FCS wins were Montana State(7-5), Portland State(6-6).... I think Southern Utah was deserving of at-large bid)
22 Tenn.-Martin (7-5) 9.03 (Only 1 OOC home game... OOC schedule was 2 FBS teams (losses at Boise State and Memphis)and wins at Chattanooga(8-4, T1st SoCon) and home against Central Arkansas(7-5).... In the OVC, won at EKU(6-6/4-4) and beat Murray State(6-6/4-4).... DESERVED AT LARGE BID )
23 Sam Houston St. (8-4) 8.69 NOT DESERVING OF AT-LARGE BID . I think they got into the playoffs due to playing in the FCS Title games in the 2011 and 2012 seasons. Had a high quality win over Eastern Washington(10-2 regular season, Big Sky Champs and #3 playoff seed)...next best win was Northwestern State(6-6).... had wins over 2 non FCS teams for scheduling purposes... Houston Baptist and Incarnate Word)
24 Youngstown St. (8-4) 8.15 (Lost final 3 regular season games...finished in 4 way tie for 2nd in MVFC, but lost to SDSU.... played 3 partial or non scholarship FCS teams.... Only quality win was SIU(7-5) )
25 Samford (8-4) 7.85 (Finished 8-4/6-2 and T1st with UT-Chattanooga and Furman in SoCon, ... OOC schedule was win at FBS Georgia State, loss at Arkansas, 34-31 home loss to SE Louisiana(#4 playoff seed, 10-2 regular season, Southland Champs) and a win over FAMU(3-9, but full scholarship FCS)..also beat UT-Chattanooga(8-4) and Georgia Southern(7-4).... I believe Samford was deserving of an at-large bid based on T1st in SoCon, win over FBS team, quality wins over UTC and Georgia Southern, and all full scholarship teams on OOC schedule )
26 Chattanooga (8-4) 7.70 (Finished T1st in SoCon, and DID NOT MAKE PLAYOFFS.. lost 17-14 in OT to Samford in game 11, and then at Alabama in final week of the season ..also lost to UT-Martin(#22 SRS) and Georgia Southern(7-4) ... beat Furman(7-5/6-2 regular season, won SoCon auto bid)...also beat FBS opponent Georgia State, and did not play ANY non scholarship or partial scholarship FCS teams...... UTC was more deserving of an at large bid than New Hampshire and Sam Houston State based on T1st in SoCon and OOC schedule)
27 Old Dominion (8-4) 7.20 (Ineligible for playoffs due to making transition to FBS)
28 Lehigh (8-3) 7.15
29 New Hampshire (7-4) 6.66 (Not sure how NHU received an at-large bid? ....finished 6-2 in CAA and T2nd with Towson...lost to Towson... other losses were at CMU(FBS), at Lehigh(8-3) and at William & Mary(7-5)....Best wins were Villanova(6-5), and James Madison(6-6)... The lone OOC win was over Colgate(4-8/3-2 Patriot)
30 Central Ark. (7-5) 6.24
***I think UT-Chattanooga and UT-Martin are the 2 teams left out of the playoffs with the best arguments they were deserving of at-large bids. I'd put YSU as 3rd most deserving of teams left out of playoffs, because of weak OOC schedule and only 1 quality win(SIU 7-5).
YSU was more deserving than SHSU and New Hampshire.
The issue with your assessment is that you are on assuming that all FCS wins are equal when in fact they are not. We could have bulldozed several other conferences last year even with a shaky defense.
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I would not put much stock into Samford's FBS win at GA State...who went 0-12.......especially when YSU plays Rose Bowl and Big 10 champs Michigan State.
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They are considered equal. Thats why our 3 weenie games count as D1 wins.
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They are considered equal. Thats why our 3 weenie games count as D1 wins.
That is why strength of schedule matters. They used to have the Gridiron Power Index. It was supposed to be considered in the SRS if I recall correctly. And the Weenie games are D1 wins. They stopped scheduling D2 games after we were left out in 2007 because the D2 win didn't count. The weenie games won't impact the GPI as badly is you fare well and your conference fares well, but that is long gone and more subjective than ever.
The real question goes back to YSUBR's comments. The best 24 teams should get in. Were we a top 24 team last year? YES. Did we get in? NO Did we get screwed once again? YES
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They are considered equal. Thats why our 3 weenie games count as D1 wins.
That is why strength of schedule matters. They used to have the Gridiron Power Index. It was supposed to be considered in the SRS if I recall correctly. And the Weenie games are D1 wins. They stopped scheduling D2 games after we were left out in 2007 because the D2 win didn't count. The weenie games won't impact the GPI as badly is you fare well and your conference fares well, but that is long gone and more subjective than ever.
The real question goes back to YSUBR's comments. The best 24 teams should get in. Were we a top 24 team last year? YES. Did we get in? NO Did we get screwed once again? YES
NCAA doesnt care about fair. Never have.
They want all conferences represented, regardless of actual performance. Otherwise those smaller conferences suffer from lack of exposure. They have a vested interest to keep them relevant.
Any idiot can see the MVFC is head and shoulders better. Well unless you work at sportsnetwork.
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Face Facts. Patty V has ZERO pull and cant influence a june bug.
NDSU had to do it the hard way by just winning every game and leaving it out of the committee's hands.
but seriously, the MVFC deserves 5 teams in this dogsh** FCS division, seriously, the top 25 teams are just embarassing. NDSU, UNI, YSU, ISU, SDSU even SIU & IND ST would beat every team in the top 25 if given a shot in the playoffs.
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Face Facts. Patty V has ZERO pull and cant influence a june bug.
NDSU had to do it the hard way by just winning every game and leaving it out of the committee's hands.
but seriously, the MVFC deserves 5 teams in this dogsh** FCS division, seriously, the top 25 teams are just embarassing. NDSU, UNI, YSU, ISU, SDSU even SIU & IND ST would beat every team in the top 25 if given a shot in the playoffs.
Lakes, if you guys are bored winning national championships, than lets move the entire MVFC up to the FBS. Then we are done with the BS selection committee, and you guys can play in bowl games, and we can all laugh as we tear up MAC and Sun Belt teams. Throw in more scholarships and you guys will be busting up your new rivals like Nebraska and Iowa (you are already busting up MN, IA State....).
You in?
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They want all conferences represented, regardless of actual performance. Otherwise those smaller conferences suffer from lack of exposure. They have a vested interest to keep them relevant.
That is EXACTLY how it should be Happy. EXACTLY. Why would you want it any other way?
The SEC was "allowed" to get away with anything because of $$$ from GE (ABC/ESPN). Now the future of the FBS/IA is "in the crapper". Do you want the same thing to happen to FCS/I-AA?
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They want all conferences represented, regardless of actual performance. Otherwise those smaller conferences suffer from lack of exposure. They have a vested interest to keep them relevant.
That is EXACTLY how it should be Happy. EXACTLY. Why would you want it any other way?
The SEC was "allowed" to get away with anything because of $$$ from GE (ABC/ESPN). Now the future of the FBS/IA is "in the crapper". Do you want the same thing to happen to FCS/I-AA?
"IF" that's exactly how it should be then there should be no "b****ING" about the playoff snub. As long as the NCAA want to represent all conferences better teams will suffer and the best team will not get a chance to settle it on the field. I wonder how the playoff's will look at the 1FBS level with the every conference represented LOL!!
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I can not and will not haggle over the last teams in and out of the playoffs...unless the team being left out is a top 10 team. Win your conference, win all your games or don't expect to be entitled to the playoffs, based upon tradition, conference affiliation or anything else.
Separately just before I read this:
Face Facts. Patty V has ZERO pull and cant influence a june bug.
NDSU had to do it the hard way by just winning every game and leaving it out of the committee's hands.
but seriously, the MVFC deserves 5 teams in this dogsh** FCS division, seriously, the top 25 teams are just embarassing. NDSU, UNI, YSU, ISU, SDSU even SIU & IND ST would beat every team in the top 25 if given a shot in the playoffs.
Lakes, if you guys are bored winning national championships, than lets move the entire MVFC up to the FBS. Then we are done with the BS selection committee, and you guys can play in bowl games, and we can all laugh as we tear up MAC and Sun Belt teams. Throw in more scholarships and you guys will be busting up your new rivals like Nebraska and Iowa (you are already busting up MN, IA State....).
You in?
I thought this:
Adding to our conference, under the Grow or Die method. As previously discussed, the major FBS conferences have moved to 16 teams (not that they care about travel costs)...should the conference look to add a few members and split the conference in an East and West division. Obviously our own bias nature here is to help YSU, as we see the in-efficiencies in being the farthest team East in the league. However, adding new teams will only add the same issues that we once faced…finding a separate conference for all other sports. Thus, who would be another good fit for the Missouri Valley Conference or Horizon League? What about adding the likes of someone like:
- Richmond
- James Madison
- Eastern Illinois
- Eastern Kentucky
- OVC team(s) from Tennessee
Then again, do we need to add in the most elite teams or can we just offer to any half-decent club that fits the mold for us for location? Bringing any new team into the MVFC will help them...even those teams that are not mentioned.
New division conceptually
North or West(?)
NDSU
SDSU
South Dakota
UNI
Missouri State
*New team out West or pick your Illinois team to move
South or East (?)
YSU
Indiana State
Illinois State
Southern Illinois
Western Illinois
*New team in the East
*Potential 2nd new Eastern team (should an Illinois team move to the West division)
Z
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I like it.
I would add North Dakota to the west. They want to renew the NDSU rivalry.
Add EIU to the East.
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They want all conferences represented, regardless of actual performance. Otherwise those smaller conferences suffer from lack of exposure. They have a vested interest to keep them relevant.
That is EXACTLY how it should be Happy. EXACTLY. Why would you want it any other way?
The SEC was "allowed" to get away with anything because of $$$ from GE (ABC/ESPN). Now the future of the FBS/IA is "in the crapper". Do you want the same thing to happen to FCS/I-AA?
"IF" that's exactly how it should be then there should be no "b****ING" about the playoff snub. As long as the NCAA want to represent all conferences better teams will suffer and the best team will not get a chance to settle it on the field. I wonder how the playoff's will look at the 1FBS level with the every conference represented LOL!!
Much better if you ask me. Otherwise this year we will see 3 teams from the SEC and one from the PAC-10. NONE from the Big-10. Of course they will hold out for FSU being "for real", but then everyone will complain that the ACC stinks (which it does), etc, etc, etc.. The only solution is equal representation. That is unless you are scared that the MAC and SWAC will win a game.
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Frankly , hadn't though much about it, but "moving" the entire MVFC "up" to FBS is a novel idea that has merits. Lets face it, I-AA or FCS has been a b@stard child to the NCAA. The tournament selections are criminal many years and the division is a mis-mash of schollie, part schollie and non-schollie teams with all treated as though they are the same and they are NOT. That's a major part of the screwing process the NCAA puts to teams like YSU in the division
I'm sure, if the MVFC grandfathered all in, so no major expense is required to join the league , it would look attractive. Then reduce a league fee for all new add-ins and you would get some bites on joining. Once in a FBS league, scheduling improves and better quality teams come to town to draw fan interest. Not to mention opening up the MAC for home & home games with another FBS league (us).
League rules could set up limitations so costs are controlled, more "blood" games can be had with FBS teams, and bowl games become a goal. Food for thought !
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Massey ranks the MVFC above the Sun Belt and MAC already......maybe MAC teams could be lured into upgrading to the MVFC.
Let's face it.....we are not getting into the playoffs...so we're not giving that up.
Would again be able to play BIG 10 schools as an FBS conference.
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They want all conferences represented, regardless of actual performance. Otherwise those smaller conferences suffer from lack of exposure. They have a vested interest to keep them relevant.
That is EXACTLY how it should be Happy. EXACTLY. Why would you want it any other way?
The SEC was "allowed" to get away with anything because of $$$ from GE (ABC/ESPN). Now the future of the FBS/IA is "in the crapper". Do you want the same thing to happen to FCS/I-AA?
"IF" that's exactly how it should be then there should be no "b****ING" about the playoff snub. As long as the NCAA want to represent all conferences better teams will suffer and the best team will not get a chance to settle it on the field. I wonder how the playoff's will look at the 1FBS level with the every conference represented LOL!!
THIS^^^^^^^
Best Teams should only compete in the playoffs
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Massey ranks the MVFC above the Sun Belt and MAC already......maybe MAC teams could be lured into upgrading to the MVFC.
Let's face it.....we are not getting into the playoffs...so we're not giving that up.
Would again be able to play BIG 10 schools as an FBS conference.
Great Point
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Massey ranks the MVFC above the Sun Belt and MAC already......maybe MAC teams could be lured into upgrading to the MVFC.
Let's face it.....we are not getting into the playoffs...so we're not giving that up.
Would again be able to play BIG 10 schools as an FBS conference.
Great Point
Very true. And there are so many bowl games if you finish .500 you'll likely see the post season.
I wouldnt mind a December game in Texas or Florida.
Wonder how much pushback there would be from the likes of the MAC and Sun Belt if we floated it out to the NCAA?
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Massey ranks the MVFC above the Sun Belt and MAC already......maybe MAC teams could be lured into upgrading to the MVFC.
Let's face it.....we are not getting into the playoffs...so we're not giving that up.
Would again be able to play BIG 10 schools as an FBS conference.
Great Point
Very true. And there are so many bowl games if you finish .500 you'll likely see the post season.
I wouldnt mind a December game in Texas or Florida.
Wonder how much pushback there would be from the likes of the MAC and Sun Belt if we floated it out to the NCAA?
2013 = 2 MVFC teams in the post-season.
We would get at least that in bowl games. 5 MAC teams made it into bowl games in 2013...including 7-5 Ohio U!
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BTW...the MAC was 0-5 in 2013 bowl appearances......... :D
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With the MVFC as a FBS league and split into East & West divisions, it would open up hoem games with MAC teams, maybe home and home with maybe Indiana, Northwestern or maybe a Syracuse , Pitt, Army, Navy or Cincinnati. Lots of options open as a FBS school. Plus your limited MVFC division games.
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They want all conferences represented, regardless of actual performance. Otherwise those smaller conferences suffer from lack of exposure. They have a vested interest to keep them relevant.
That is EXACTLY how it should be Happy. EXACTLY. Why would you want it any other way?
The SEC was "allowed" to get away with anything because of $$$ from GE (ABC/ESPN). Now the future of the FBS/IA is "in the crapper". Do you want the same thing to happen to FCS/I-AA?
"IF" that's exactly how it should be then there should be no "b****ING" about the playoff snub. As long as the NCAA want to represent all conferences better teams will suffer and the best team will not get a chance to settle it on the field. I wonder how the playoff's will look at the 1FBS level with the every conference represented LOL!!
THIS^^^^^^^
Best Teams should only compete in the playoffs
I would agree if we did not have regions or conferences. 118 teams going at it ...no affiliations at all.
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With the MVFC as a FBS league and split into East & West divisions, it would open up hoem games with MAC teams, maybe home and home with maybe Indiana, Northwestern or maybe a Syracuse , Pitt, Army, Navy or Cincinnati. Lots of options open as a FBS school. Plus your limited MVFC division games.
A MVFC team has won the national championship three years in a row.
In 2014, the MVFC is 23-1 versus the rest of the FCS.
The MVFC is already rated in conference strength by Massey as stronger than 2 current FBS conferences.
The scheduling advantages that Paladin notes are HUGE.
And.....the FCS playoff selection committee becomes irrelevant to us
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AND, given the geography of the MVFC, throw in a TV contract ! Get two 8 team MVFC divisions and play BCS schools the other 4 or 5 games. Marshall, Cincinnati, Pitt, Syracuse, Indiana ,Army, Maryland, WVU, Penn St., Purdue, etc. In fact lots of FBS schools located much closer than the Dakotas or Iowa, travel is shorter, quicker allowing Fans to travel on the road while holding expenses down in the budget. PLay a few games on TV and make a bowl game. Think attendance would go up ? I do. Think being BCS and "the big time" makes a difference in how folks look at the program ? I do.
Where's that b!tch Viverito ? Pitch this and get it moving.
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Moving the entire conference to FBS is a great idea that fixes lots of issues for the MVFC but this won't happen any time soon. Here's why: Minimum attendance requirement for FBS football is an average of 15,000 per game. NDSU is the only MVFC school meeting that standard right now. MVFC as a conference ranks third in attendance in FCS with a little under 11,000 per game. (Weather may be a factor here--the two highest conferences are in the South.) UMass, which is regarded as the ghetto of the FBS, still averages over 15,000 per game.
Last year YSU was second in the conference with a little more than 13,000 per game. Missouri State is having a bit of a run between the current performance of its team and the novelty of its new stadium, but this will fizzle by the end of the next year, sooner if it loses a few conference games.
There's still way too much uncertainty to talk about a move to FBS. Everyone needs to keep in mind that the current estimate is that proposed changes to the NCAA will cost the top five conferences an average of $3.5 million per school and they are talking about cutting non-revenue sports to make this happen. A movement has started to encourage the presidents to overturn the changes, but the outcome is still uncertain.
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I can't speak to the dynamics at other MVFC schools, but if YSU rose to the FBS with the MVFC, and played local MAC schools, the surge in attendance would be so significant that stadium expansion would be considered.
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The comments on moving to the FBS is great!!!!!
I have posted that many years ago and we still have many thinking the FCS playoff system is the way. The only way for increased attendance is playing and beating teams like: Pitt, Mac teams, and Big Ten teams. Making a lot more money and getting more nation recognition. Yes, it will cost more money, but it will be a big return for the future of YSU.
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We can't even get into the FCS playoffs and you guys want to move up to FBS.... And win what, 2 or 3 games a year?
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5--
The MVFC should move to FBS level (maybe as a conference with East/West subdivisions).
Last year, YSU was 5-3 in the MVFC. Throw in some MAC schools (inferior competition to MVFC games) and I think YSU would have a winning season in the FBS.....and there is a HUGE upside to this in terms of fan interest...travel budget....and potential enhanced Athletic Department revenue.
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5--
The MVFC should move to FBS level (maybe as a conference with East/West subdivisions).
Last year, YSU was 5-3 in the MVFC. Throw in some MAC schools (inferior competition to MVFC games) and I think YSU would have a winning season in the FBS.....and there is a HUGE upside to this in terms of fan interest...travel budget....and potential enhanced Athletic Department revenue.
I hear what you guys are saying, but I'm saying as far as playing other FBS teams.... We struggle to win games now.... Don't see it happening.
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idk.....I see at least 6-6...
Sample schedule:
MVFC 5-3
MAC 1-1
BIG 10 0-2
Final season record: 6-6
I think that's a conservative estimation. We beat Pitt, we were beating IL in the 4th.....ISUb just beat a MAC team.....even the Sycamore are eating the MAC for dinner.....Throw in a BIG 10 split and a MAC sweep and we're at 8-4...and maybe in a bowl game...
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If a guy making 30k and a guy making 100k both get bumped up to first class on a plane, its going to appear that the 30k guy is having a better day right? YSU should probably worry about 1AA ball before FBS football. Moving up now, especially with the formation of the BIG 5, would be financially disastrous to any teams whose budget is not 15+ million....for just football.
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I can understand the frustration with the MVFC only getting 2 teams into the playoffs. I can understand the frustration with YSU being "on the bubble" multiple times from 01-13, and never receiving an at large bid. What I cannot understand is this talk of joining another conference, or the entire MFVC moving up to FBS. As was stated by another person, NDSU is the only school that meets the 15,000 per game mark for attendance. South Dakota(10,000) and Indy State(12,464) do not even have stadiums that hold 15,000. And, North Dakota, a team mentioned as a possible addition to the MFVC has a capacity of 12,283.
Here is a question I have for the people advocating YSU leave the MVFC. What conference is YSU going to join? There is NO EVIDENCE to suggest that any conference is interested in adding YSU.
As far as the entire MVFC moving up to FBS, there is NOTHING to support that this is something all 10 members would want to do. Nor is there any reason to believe the NCAA would approve of such a move. And, even if the conference did move up, they would essentially be like the Sun Belt, with best case scenario being on a par with the MAC. Take a look at the teams in the Sun Belt. It is a veritable "whose who" of former top 25 FCS programs.... Georgia Southern(no explanation needed), App State(no explanation needed), La-Monroe(1987 FCS Champs, 4 playoff appearance from 78-93... have played in 1 Bowl game since moving to FBS in 1994), Troy(FCS playoffs in 93,94,95,96,98,99,00), Idaho(11 times in FCS playoffs in 18 seasons), Arkansas State(4 playoff appearances in the 80's(84,85,86,87), including 1986 FCS title game..made move to FBS in 1992)
The Sun Belt and MAC duel it out annually for the worst conference in FBS. And, speaking of the MAC, remember that UMASS was a quality FCS program. They won an NC in 98, and lost in the 06 NC game to App. Made playoffs 7 times before moving up to FBS 78,90,98,99,03,06, and 07. They are now a bottom feeder in the MAC and one of the worst programs in all of FBS..
App State, which had dominated FCS is currently #17 in CBS Sportsline Bottom 25, Idaho is #4, Troy #2 .. other schools from Sun Belt in Bottom 12 are: La-Lafayette #10, Georgia State #11, New Mexico State #23
As far as the MAC, they are also well represented: #19 Ball State, #9 EMU, #8 UMASS, #5 Miami, #3 KENT .... Akron moved out of the Bottom 25 last week with their win at PITT
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/eye-on-college-football/24731805/the-bottom-25-maction-dominates-the-rankings
One of the FBS wins people are raving about for an MVFC team is Indiana State beating Ball State(1-3/0-1 MAC), the #19 team in CBS Sportsline Bottom 25. I do not think any FBS teams are going to be boasting about beating Ball State this season.
WKU is another team that was among the best in FCS, then made the jump to FBS in 2009. They have played in 1 bowl game in 5 seasons, and this year are 2-2/0-1(CUSA)..WKU won an NC in 2002 and made the playoffs in 87,88,97,00,01,02,03,04... In their first FBS season(2009), WKU went 0-12... the next 4 seasons were 2-10, 7-6(lost Little Ceasers Bowl to CMU), 7-5, and 8-4. So much for only needing to win 6 or 7 games to make a bowl, as WKU did not make a bowl game either of the last 2 seasons. And, in 2013 neither did Toledo 7-5, South Alabama(6-6), LA-Monroe(6-6), Troy(6-6), Texas State(6-6), CMU(6-6), FAU(6-6) and San Jose State(6-6).
They were skipped over by several 6-6 teams from the now "Power 5": PITT(6-6), Syracuse(6-6), North Carolina(6-6), Washington State(6-6), Oregon State(6-6), Mississippi State(6-6),
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The disparity that has been created between the the FBS power 5 conferences and everyome else in the FBS vs the lack of disparity between the MAC, Sunbelt etc and the FCS is all a result or piss poor management by the NCAA.
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Interesting thread on the ISUr fan page.
http://redbirdfan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6835
I did not know that Patty V is the commish for another FCS conference. Seems like a conflict of interest to me. I did know that the MVFC does a poor job advocating for its member schools. There was an interview a few weeks back with Bob Hannon and Mike Dern that was eye-opening to say the least.
If MVFC get screwed again by the playoff selection committee, and we decide to stay in the MVFC, then I don't want to hear a single peep about unfairness from the either coaches or the fans in 2015 or any future season.
When you are in a bad relationship.....you get out.
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I have known that Patty V is the commish of the Pioneer League as well. This may be some of the influence that leads us to have scheduling with Valpo, Butler, etc. While I can see the conflict of interest come time for playoffs...generally there is likely not much chance of putting a 2nd PFL team into the final 24. As such, I have not researched and compared to other leagues...but it could be that there is some cost savings by both conferences splitting her salary.
Separately I continue to stand by my point that our best option as a conference is to expand the best conference in FCS by adding two or more teams and making two divisions. Although either would work, I feel that in the Guins best interest those teams should be located nearer to Utica shale then to the Bakken.
Z
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I have posted innumerable times that YSU would win more games in another conference, and likely get into the playoffs probabaly every year. IMO, YSU improved this year, but not as steeply as the rest of the MVFC, which was 23-1 versus non-MVFC teams.
I began to wonder, how would the Yotes do in another conference? They are 0-7 in the MVFC, but 1-1 versus BSC teams. They beat NAU (5-2 / 7-4), a team that may see the post-season. The lost by one score to the Griz (6-1 / 8-3 /#15). Instead of large margins of defeat in the MVFC, they'd likely be beating most BSC squads, and tearing up lesser conferences and maybe earning their autobid. They would shred Bryant and Sacred Heart in the NEC, for example. But yet they languish in the MVFC likely due to geographical reasons.
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Here is how I see things playoff wise for MVFC:
NDSU and ISU are in
UNI is in with a win
Indy State is in with a win
SDSU is in with a win
YSU is in with a win
SoCon is only going to get 1 team, Chattanooga... WCU is 7-4 with 2 non D1 wins and play an SEC team this week...Samford is 7-4 with 2 Non D1 wins and play an SEC team this week
OVC only has 2 teams possible, Jax State and EKU with both in even if they lose
Big South likely gets 1 bid.... Charleston Southern is 8-3, but have 2 Non D1 wins and play Georgia this week... Liberty(7-3) could get in if they beat Coastal Carolina(11-0) this week
YSU could well end up in same scenario as last year... 8-4/5-3, but losing last 3 games, plus a bad loss to WIU and weak OOC schedule... When the season ends, the only MFVC team YSU has beaten that will be ranked is SDSU..... SIU will likely lose to ISU and finish 6-6.... MSU is 4-7 and will likely finish 4-8...South Dakota is 2-9 and will likely finish 2-10
The OOC teams from FCS... Duquesne is 5-6(3-6 against D1 teams) and plays RMU(1-9)...Dukes finish 6-6.... St. Francis is 5-5(3-5 against D1 teams) and place Central Conn... they likely finish 6-5..... Butlers fished the season 4-7, 2-7 against D1 teams
There may well be teams with 7 wins that get in as at-large instead of YSU, and I have no problem with that if YSU once again finishes the season with 3 losses in a row.
As for leaving the MFVC, where woulod YSU go? They would be only Northern school in OVC, and travel would not be a picnic... Do not see CAA having any interest in YSU, as they add NOTHING to the conference. Only FCS Conference I see that would consider YSU is Big South, as they have only 6 schools, and YSU would increase the stature of the Big South, plus be team #8. Also, Big South is trying everything they can to become a higher quality FCS Conference.
Here is the reality. Since Tressel left, YSU has not been good enough to be a premier team in the MVFC. The conference was fine the first 4 years:
1997 - went 9-2/4-2 regular season(2nd in MVFC) and won NC finishing 13-2
1998 - went 6-5/3-3 regular season
1999 - went 9-2/4-2 regular season...finished 12-3 with loss in NC game
2000 - went 9-2/4-2 regular season, lost at Richmond in 1st round of playoffs
YSU - UNI was a rivalry at that point..the game in 2000 had over 20,000 fans, largest crowd in Stambaugh history... YSU was 2-2 those 4 years against UNI... 1-12 since. How can there be a rivalry with ANY team when seasons is 1-12?
In order to have a truly exciting rivalry, the teams need to win about the same amount of times, or have one team with a slight edge. Geography does play a part in a rivalry, but even if teams are close in proximity the rivalry will not generate alot of excitement if dominate by 1 team. Especially among fans of the team that gets dominated
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1. Eastern Washington
2. Montana State
3. Likely Montana (if they beat MSU)
4. Coastal Carolina
5. New Hampshire
6. Villanova
7. James Madison
8. NCA&T
9. NDSU
10. ILS
11. UNI
12. Sacred Heart
13. Jacksonville State
14. Eastern Kentucky
15. Chattanooga
16. Se LA State
17. Sam Houston State
18. Central Arkansas (as they will beat SHS bext week ...they alway do).
19. San Diego (depending on investigation of scholarship issues with Jacksonville.
3 = Big Sky
1 = Big South
3 = CAA
1 = MEAC
3 = MVFC
1 = NEC
2 = OVC
1 = SoCon
1 = Pioneer
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Okay pick your last 5 teams from the following:
Idaho State (possible)
Northern Arizona (have a stupid loss yesterday, but a great resume).
Likely Liberty (if they beat CCSU)
William and Mary is a hard sell, with loses to all three teams above them
Bethune-Cookman and SC State are hard sells.
SDSU, YSU and ISU are hard sells.
Bryant (had good game against Sacred Heart & now possible, but unlikely)
Samford a possibility
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Bethune Cookman(8-3/5-2) will be 9-3 with a win this week over FAMU(3-8).... BCU would have 8 wins over D1 teams, including a win at FBS team FIU(4-7). Yes, FIU(4-7) is a bad FBS team, but they are in FBS. They also played at and lost to FBS Central Florida(6-3). They have an OOC win over Grambling(7-4).... I think they are in with a win.
South Carolina State(7-4/5-2) still has a chance to win the auto bid, as they beat first place NC A&T(9-2/6-1). SCSU will be 7-4 against D1 teams with a win this week over Norfolk State(4-7/4-3).... The 2 OOC losses for SC State were at Clemson and at Coastal Carolina(11-0). They have an OOC win over Furman(3-8). Furman is bad this year, but they are a full scholarship program from the SoCon. The other OOC win was over Non D1 opponent. SC State hurth their playoff chances yesterday with a 24-21 loss at Morgan State(6-5/5-2). That knocked SC State out of a 1st place tie with A&T. The MEAC has 11 teams and plays an 8 team schedule.
NAU(7-4/5-2) plays S. Utah(2-9/2-5), and ought to win. NAU would have only 7 wins over D1 opponents. They have a bad loss to South Dakota. But, they did beat EWU(9-2/6-1) and Cal-Poly(6-5/5-3). Still hard to see NAU in playoffs due to the loss against South Dakota, only 7 D1 wins, and only real quality win being EWU.
Idaho State(7-4/5-2) has 2 wins over non D1 teams. They ought to beat Weber State(2-9/2-5) this week, but they would give them only 6 D1 wins. Two best wins are Cal-Poly(6-5) and Sac State(6-5).... Very doubtful Idaho State makes playoffs.
Montana will likely be in with a win, even though they will have only 7 D1 wins. They draw well, their fans travel well, and that is something playoff committee considers when picking at-large teams. And, beating Montana State(8-3/6-1) will be a quality win.... Montana State has only 7 D1 wins, so they are not a playoff lock with a loss to Montana.
Sam Houston has to win and then hope. They likely get in with a win, as they will finish tie 1st in the Southland, have 7 D1 wins and they draw well.
Central Arkansas has to beat SHSU and then hope. They would be 7-5/6-2, and best wins would be Lamar(currently 7-4(but with 2 Non D1 wins), SFA(currently 7-4), SHSU(currently 7-4), Northwestern State(currently 6-5)..... Central Arkansas lost to Mo State and only OOC win was UT-Martin(presently 6-5)... Do NOT see this team making the playoffs.
Several teams, including SDSU, are putting themselves at risk of missing playoffs due to playing 1 or more non D1 teams...
Indiana State is an easy sell if they beat WIU... That would be 8-4/5-3... a win in week 10 at YSU(will finish 7-5 or 8-4). Indy State also beat UNI(7-4/5-2), a team that will likely make the playoffs.... OOC wins at FBS Ball State and home against Liberty(7-3 at present, 6-3 against D1 opponents). Also played at Indiana(loss) and Tenn Tech(4-7) at home. Tech is not very good, but they are in a FULL SCHOLARSHIP FCS Conference.
Where things get interesting is if Indy State, SDSU and YSU all win. All 4 would be 8-4/5-3. Indy State beat YSU and lost to SDSU.... YSU won at SDSU and lost to Indy State... SDSU beat Indy State and lost to YSU.
SDSU would have only 7 D1 wins, so that hurts them. But, if Indy State makes the playoffs, SDSU has an argument to be in playoffs by v irtue of beating Indy State, and finishing tied with Indy State in the MVFC.
YSU would have a valid argument, due to beating SDSU, especially if they in this week at NDSU and finish 8-4/5-3.
This year is very much like 2011, when YSU would have made the playoffs at 7-4 had they just beat last place Mo State in the final game of the season. I agree with the person who said the FCS playoffs are watered down now that there are 24 teams. Yes, there are 11 auto bids, but that means 13 at-large teams.
From 1986-2009 only 16 teams made the playoffs, there were 8 auto bids and 8 at-large bids. In 2010, the playoff field expanded to 20 teams. 10 auto bids and 10 at large bids. Last year, the playoffs expanded to 24 teams.. 11 auto bids and 13 at-large bids. Conside that from 89-2006, YSU was an Independent. While there were more Indepent teams then, and often the Independent team with the best record would make the playoffs, there was NO GUARANTEE of an auto bid. Which means, YSU made playoffs as an at-large team in 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94 when that was the ONLY way for YSU to get into the playoffs. Be one of the 8 best non auto qualifiers. YSU also received at-large bids in 97,99 and 00, but at least those seasons YSU had an opportunity to earn an AUTO bid. YSU earned AUTO BIDS in 1987(OVC Auto Bid) and 2006(MFVC Auto Bid).
All of this just shows how far YSU's program has dropped off since the Tressel years, when YSU made the playoffs 10 times, and in 9 of those seasonm they earned 1 of the 8 at-large bids. Also, top level programs such as App State, Ga Southern, Troy, Boise St, Marshall, Idaho, Nevada, WKU, NE Louisiana(now La-Monroe), MTSU, UMASS, Texas State, UCF have moved up to FBS. Boston U has dropped football.
NDSU, SDSU, Coastal Carolina, Wofford, Cal-Poly, S. Utah, Albany, Stony Brook, have joined FCS, but theses teams and others that have since joined FCS do not make up in QUALITY for the programs lost. As a whole, FCS is weaker now than it was 15 years ago, and the playoffs have 5 more at-large bids. This makes the playoff drought for YSU even worse.
Duplicating what happened at YSU from 91-99 is not reasonable to expect. But, making the playoffs 6-7 times a decade, and 1-2 of those years making a deep playoff run is reasonable. So is finishing higher than 3rd place in the MVFC 3-5 times per decade. And, I mean higher than 3rd place after tie-breakers are used. Not tie for 2nd, but losing to the team or teams YSU finished tied with for 2nd place. NDSU is on a great run, but it will come to an end. Not saying they will drop to the bottom of the MVFC, but they will eventually be dethroned as the Elite program in FCS. It happened to GSU on 2 different occasions. Happened to EKU. Happened to YSU. Montana is no longer the dominant program in the Big Sky. The question is, when NDSU falls back to the pack in the MVFC and FCS, will YSU be a team that takes advantage. Or, with they still be mired as a middle of the pack MVFC team, and a team that by the end of the year is not deserving of the playoffs?
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I watched Bethune-Cookman play Hampton. They are garbage and look like a high school team. They would get smashed by us. We wouldn't haveven to throw the ball once to beat them. If the selection committee wants to pick the top 24 teams then we are in. We are probably as good as #8 when we play well and as bad as #18 when we are pissing games away with errors. If you are #8 and have a few breaks during the game you can beat #1.
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penguinpower,
There is NO WAY that YSU makes the playoffs at 7-5/4-4, nor would they deserve to make the playoffs. Beat NDSU to finish 8-4/5-3, and I think YSU gets into the playoffs. Lose to NDSU, no playoffs, and it will be the fault of this YSU coaching staff and players, not the selection committee. The weak OOC schedule does not help either. The D2 teams are off the schedule, but in their place are 2 or 3(this year 3) teams that are partial or non scholarship teams, and not even the best of the best among the Pioneer and NEC.