How good is the MVFC

[OleYSUfan]

The comments on moving to the FBS is great!!!!!

I have posted that many years ago and we still have many thinking the FCS playoff system is the way. The only way for increased attendance is playing and beating teams like: Pitt, Mac teams, and Big Ten teams. Making a lot more money and getting more nation recognition. Yes, it will cost more money, but it will be a big return for the future of YSU.

[ysufan0505]

We can't even get into the FCS playoffs and you guys want to move up to FBS.... And win what, 2 or 3 games a year?

[Penguin Nation]

5--

The MVFC should move to FBS level (maybe as a conference with East/West subdivisions).

Last year, YSU was 5-3 in the MVFC.  Throw in some MAC schools (inferior competition to MVFC games) and I think YSU would have a winning season in the FBS.....and there is a HUGE upside to this in terms of fan interest...travel budget....and potential enhanced Athletic Department revenue.

[ysufan0505]

5--

The MVFC should move to FBS level (maybe as a conference with East/West subdivisions).

Last year, YSU was 5-3 in the MVFC.  Throw in some MAC schools (inferior competition to MVFC games) and I think YSU would have a winning season in the FBS.....and there is a HUGE upside to this in terms of fan interest...travel budget....and potential enhanced Athletic Department revenue.

I hear what you guys are saying, but I'm saying as far as playing other FBS teams.... We struggle to win games now.... Don't see it happening.

[Penguin Nation]

idk.....I see at least 6-6...

Sample schedule:

MVFC      5-3
MAC        1-1
BIG 10     0-2

Final season record:  6-6

I think that's a conservative estimation.  We beat Pitt, we were beating IL in the 4th.....ISUb just beat a MAC team.....even the Sycamore are eating the MAC for dinner.....Throw in a BIG 10 split and a MAC sweep and we're at 8-4...and maybe in a bowl game...

[Observer]

If a guy making 30k and a guy making 100k both get bumped up to first class on a plane, its going to appear that the 30k guy is having a better day right?  YSU should probably worry about 1AA ball before FBS football.  Moving up now, especially with the formation of the BIG 5, would be financially disastrous to any teams whose budget is not 15+ million....for just football.

[Lets_Talk]

I can understand the frustration with the MVFC only getting 2 teams into the playoffs. I can understand the frustration with YSU being "on the bubble" multiple times from 01-13, and never receiving an at large bid. What I cannot understand is this talk of joining another conference, or the entire MFVC moving up to FBS. As was stated by another person, NDSU is the only school that meets the 15,000 per game mark for attendance. South Dakota(10,000) and Indy State(12,464) do not even have stadiums that hold 15,000. And, North Dakota, a team mentioned as a possible addition to the MFVC has a capacity of 12,283.

Here is a question I have for the people advocating YSU leave the MVFC. What conference is YSU going to join? There is NO EVIDENCE to suggest that any conference is interested in adding YSU.

As far as the entire MVFC moving up to FBS, there is NOTHING to support that this is something all 10 members would want to do. Nor is there any reason to believe the NCAA would approve of such a move. And, even if the conference did move up, they would essentially be like the Sun Belt, with best case scenario being on a par with the MAC. Take a look at the teams in the Sun Belt. It is a veritable "whose who" of former top 25 FCS programs.... Georgia Southern(no explanation needed), App State(no explanation needed), La-Monroe(1987 FCS Champs, 4 playoff appearance from 78-93... have played in 1 Bowl game since moving to FBS in 1994), Troy(FCS playoffs in 93,94,95,96,98,99,00), Idaho(11 times in FCS playoffs in 18 seasons), Arkansas State(4 playoff appearances in the 80's(84,85,86,87), including 1986 FCS title game..made move to FBS in 1992)

The Sun Belt and MAC duel it out annually for the worst conference in FBS. And, speaking of the MAC, remember that UMASS was a quality FCS program. They won an NC in 98, and lost in the 06 NC game to App. Made playoffs 7 times before moving up to FBS 78,90,98,99,03,06, and 07. They are now a bottom feeder in the MAC and one of the worst programs in all of FBS..

App State, which had dominated FCS is currently #17 in CBS Sportsline Bottom 25, Idaho is #4, Troy #2 .. other schools from Sun Belt in Bottom 12 are: La-Lafayette #10, Georgia State #11, New Mexico State #23

As far as the MAC, they are also well represented: #19 Ball State, #9 EMU, #8 UMASS, #5 Miami, #3 KENT .... Akron moved out of the Bottom 25 last week with their win at PITT
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/eye-on-college-football/24731805/the-bottom-25-maction-dominates-the-rankings

One of the FBS wins people are raving about for an MVFC team is Indiana State beating Ball State(1-3/0-1 MAC), the #19 team in CBS Sportsline Bottom 25. I do not think any FBS teams are going to be boasting about beating Ball State this season.

WKU is another team that was among the best in FCS, then made the jump to FBS in 2009. They have played in 1 bowl game in 5 seasons, and this year are 2-2/0-1(CUSA)..WKU won an NC in 2002 and made the playoffs in 87,88,97,00,01,02,03,04... In their first FBS season(2009), WKU went 0-12... the next 4 seasons were 2-10, 7-6(lost Little Ceasers Bowl to CMU), 7-5, and 8-4. So much for only needing to win 6 or 7 games to make a bowl, as WKU did not make a bowl game either of the last 2 seasons. And, in 2013 neither did Toledo 7-5, South Alabama(6-6), LA-Monroe(6-6), Troy(6-6), Texas State(6-6), CMU(6-6), FAU(6-6) and San Jose State(6-6).
They were skipped over by several 6-6 teams from the now "Power 5": PITT(6-6), Syracuse(6-6), North Carolina(6-6), Washington State(6-6), Oregon State(6-6), Mississippi State(6-6),

[penguinpower]

The disparity that has been created between the the FBS power 5 conferences and everyome else in the FBS vs the lack of disparity between the MAC, Sunbelt etc and the FCS is all a result or piss poor management by the NCAA.

[Penguin Nation]

Interesting thread on the ISUr fan page.

http://redbirdfan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6835

I did not know that Patty V is the commish for another FCS conference.  Seems like a conflict of interest to me.  I did know that the MVFC does a poor job advocating for its member schools.  There was an interview a few weeks back with Bob Hannon and  Mike Dern that was eye-opening to say the least.

If MVFC get screwed again by the playoff selection committee, and we decide to stay in the MVFC, then I don't want to hear a single peep about unfairness from the either coaches or the fans in 2015 or any future season.

When you are in a bad relationship.....you get out.

[GOpenZ]

I have known that Patty V is the commish of the Pioneer League as well.  This may be some of the influence that leads us to have scheduling with Valpo, Butler, etc.  While I can see the conflict of interest come time for playoffs...generally there is likely not much chance of putting a 2nd PFL team into the final 24.  As such, I have not researched and compared to other leagues...but it could be that there is some cost savings by both conferences splitting her salary.

Separately I continue to stand by my point that our best option as a conference is to expand the best conference in FCS by adding two or more teams and making two divisions.  Although either would work, I feel that in the Guins best interest those teams should be located nearer to Utica shale then to the Bakken.

Z

[Penguin Nation]

I have posted innumerable times that YSU would win more games in another conference, and likely get into the playoffs probabaly every year.  IMO, YSU improved this year, but not as steeply as the rest of the MVFC, which was 23-1 versus non-MVFC teams.

I began to wonder, how would the Yotes do in another conference?  They are 0-7 in the MVFC, but 1-1 versus BSC teams.  They beat NAU (5-2 / 7-4), a team that may see the post-season.  The lost by one score to the Griz (6-1 / 8-3 /#15).  Instead of large margins of defeat in the MVFC, they'd likely be beating most BSC squads, and tearing up lesser conferences and maybe earning their autobid.  They would shred Bryant and Sacred Heart in the NEC, for example.  But yet they languish in the MVFC likely due to geographical reasons. 

[Lets_Talk]

Here is how I see things playoff wise for MVFC:

NDSU and ISU are in
UNI is in with a win
Indy State is in with a win
SDSU is in with a win
YSU is in with a win

SoCon is only going to get 1 team, Chattanooga... WCU is 7-4 with 2 non D1 wins and play an SEC team this week...Samford is 7-4 with 2 Non D1 wins and play an SEC team this week

OVC only has 2 teams possible, Jax State and EKU with both in even if they lose

Big South likely gets 1 bid....  Charleston Southern is 8-3, but have 2 Non D1 wins and play Georgia this week... Liberty(7-3) could get in if they beat Coastal Carolina(11-0) this week

YSU could well end up in same scenario as last year... 8-4/5-3, but losing last 3 games, plus a bad loss to WIU and weak OOC schedule... When the season ends, the only MFVC team YSU has beaten that will be ranked is SDSU..... SIU will likely lose to ISU and finish 6-6.... MSU is 4-7 and will likely finish 4-8...South Dakota is 2-9 and will likely finish 2-10

The OOC teams from FCS... Duquesne is 5-6(3-6 against D1 teams) and plays RMU(1-9)...Dukes finish 6-6.... St. Francis is 5-5(3-5 against D1 teams) and place Central Conn... they likely finish 6-5..... Butlers fished the season 4-7, 2-7 against D1 teams

There may well be teams with 7 wins that get in as at-large instead of YSU, and I have no problem with that if YSU once again finishes the season with 3 losses in a row.

As for leaving the MFVC, where woulod YSU go? They would be only Northern school in OVC, and travel would not be a picnic... Do not see CAA having any interest in YSU, as they add NOTHING to the conference. Only FCS Conference I see that would consider YSU is Big South, as they have only 6 schools, and YSU would increase the stature of the Big South, plus be team #8. Also, Big South is trying everything they can to become a higher quality FCS Conference.

Here is the reality. Since Tressel left, YSU has not been good enough to be a premier team in the MVFC. The conference was fine the first 4 years:

1997 - went 9-2/4-2 regular season(2nd in MVFC) and won NC finishing 13-2
1998 - went 6-5/3-3 regular season
1999 - went 9-2/4-2 regular season...finished 12-3 with loss in NC game
2000 - went 9-2/4-2 regular season, lost at Richmond in 1st round of playoffs

YSU - UNI was a rivalry at that point..the game in 2000 had over 20,000 fans, largest crowd in Stambaugh history... YSU was 2-2 those 4 years against UNI... 1-12 since. How can there be a rivalry with ANY team when seasons is 1-12?

In order to have a truly exciting rivalry, the teams need to win about the same amount of times, or have one team with a slight edge. Geography does play a part in a rivalry, but even if teams are close in proximity the rivalry will not generate alot of excitement if dominate by 1 team. Especially among fans of the team that gets dominated

[IAA Fan]

1. Eastern Washington
2. Montana State
3. Likely Montana (if they beat MSU)
4. Coastal Carolina
5. New Hampshire
6. Villanova
7. James Madison
8. NCA&T
9. NDSU
10. ILS
11. UNI
12. Sacred Heart
13. Jacksonville State
14. Eastern Kentucky
15. Chattanooga
16. Se LA State
17. Sam Houston State
18. Central Arkansas (as they will beat SHS bext week ...they alway do).
19. San Diego (depending on investigation of scholarship issues with Jacksonville.


3 = Big Sky
1 = Big South
3 = CAA
1 = MEAC
3 = MVFC
1 = NEC
2 = OVC
1 = SoCon
1 = Pioneer
-------------------------------------

Okay pick your last  5 teams from the following:

Idaho State (possible)
Northern Arizona (have a stupid loss yesterday, but a great resume).
Likely Liberty (if they beat CCSU)
William and Mary is a hard sell, with loses to all three teams above them
Bethune-Cookman and SC State are hard sells.
SDSU, YSU and ISU are hard sells.
Bryant (had good game against Sacred Heart & now possible, but unlikely)
Samford a possibility

[Lets_Talk]

Bethune Cookman(8-3/5-2) will be 9-3 with a win this week over FAMU(3-8).... BCU would have 8 wins over D1 teams, including a win at FBS team FIU(4-7). Yes, FIU(4-7) is a bad FBS team, but they are in FBS. They also played at and lost to FBS Central Florida(6-3). They have an OOC win over Grambling(7-4).... I think they are in with a win.

South Carolina State(7-4/5-2) still has a chance to win the auto bid, as they beat first place NC A&T(9-2/6-1). SCSU will be 7-4 against D1 teams with a win this week over Norfolk State(4-7/4-3).... The 2 OOC losses for SC State were at Clemson and at Coastal Carolina(11-0). They have an OOC win over Furman(3-8). Furman is bad this year, but they are a full scholarship program from the SoCon. The other OOC win was over  Non D1 opponent. SC State hurth their playoff chances yesterday with a 24-21 loss at Morgan State(6-5/5-2). That knocked SC State out of a 1st place tie with A&T. The MEAC has 11 teams and plays an 8 team schedule.
NAU(7-4/5-2) plays S. Utah(2-9/2-5), and ought to win. NAU would have only 7 wins over D1 opponents. They have a bad loss to South Dakota. But, they did beat EWU(9-2/6-1) and Cal-Poly(6-5/5-3). Still hard to see NAU in playoffs due to the loss against South Dakota, only 7 D1 wins, and only real quality win being EWU.

Idaho State(7-4/5-2) has 2 wins over non D1 teams. They ought to beat Weber State(2-9/2-5) this week, but they would give them only 6 D1 wins. Two best wins are Cal-Poly(6-5) and Sac State(6-5).... Very doubtful Idaho State makes playoffs.

Montana will likely be in with a win, even though they will have only 7 D1 wins. They draw well, their fans travel well, and that is something playoff committee considers when picking at-large teams. And, beating Montana State(8-3/6-1) will be a quality win.... Montana State has only 7 D1 wins, so they are not a playoff lock with a loss to Montana.

Sam Houston has to win and then hope. They likely get in with a win, as they will finish tie 1st in the Southland, have 7 D1 wins and they draw well.

Central Arkansas has to beat SHSU and then hope. They would be 7-5/6-2, and best wins would be Lamar(currently 7-4(but with 2 Non D1 wins), SFA(currently 7-4), SHSU(currently 7-4), Northwestern State(currently 6-5)..... Central Arkansas lost to Mo State and only OOC win was UT-Martin(presently 6-5)... Do NOT see this team making the playoffs.

Several teams, including SDSU, are putting themselves at risk of missing playoffs due to playing 1 or more non D1 teams...

Indiana State is an easy sell if they beat WIU... That would be 8-4/5-3... a win in week 10 at YSU(will finish 7-5 or 8-4). Indy State also beat UNI(7-4/5-2), a team that will likely make the playoffs.... OOC wins at FBS Ball State and home against Liberty(7-3 at present, 6-3 against D1 opponents). Also played at Indiana(loss) and Tenn Tech(4-7) at home. Tech is not very good, but they are in a FULL SCHOLARSHIP FCS Conference.

Where things get interesting is if Indy State, SDSU and YSU all win. All 4 would be 8-4/5-3. Indy State beat YSU and lost to SDSU.... YSU won at SDSU and lost to Indy State... SDSU beat Indy State and lost to YSU.

SDSU would have only 7 D1 wins, so that hurts them. But, if Indy State makes the playoffs, SDSU has an argument to be in playoffs by v irtue of beating Indy State, and finishing tied with Indy State in the MVFC.

YSU would have a valid argument, due to beating SDSU, especially if they in this week at NDSU and finish 8-4/5-3.

This year is very much like 2011, when YSU would have made the playoffs at 7-4 had they just beat last place Mo State in the final game of the season. I agree with the person who said the FCS playoffs are watered down now that there are 24 teams. Yes, there are 11 auto bids, but that means 13 at-large teams.

From 1986-2009 only 16 teams made the playoffs, there were 8 auto bids and 8 at-large bids. In 2010, the playoff field expanded to 20 teams. 10 auto bids and 10 at large bids. Last year, the playoffs expanded to 24 teams.. 11 auto bids and 13 at-large bids. Conside that from 89-2006, YSU was an Independent. While there were more Indepent teams then, and often the Independent team with the best record would make the playoffs, there was NO GUARANTEE of an auto bid. Which means, YSU made playoffs as an at-large team in 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94 when that was the ONLY way for YSU to get into the playoffs. Be one of the 8 best non auto qualifiers. YSU also received at-large bids in 97,99 and 00, but at least those seasons YSU had an opportunity to earn an AUTO bid. YSU earned AUTO BIDS in 1987(OVC Auto Bid) and 2006(MFVC Auto Bid).

All of this just shows how far YSU's program has dropped off since the Tressel years, when YSU made the playoffs 10 times, and in 9 of those seasonm they earned 1 of the 8 at-large bids. Also, top level programs such as App State, Ga Southern, Troy, Boise St, Marshall, Idaho, Nevada, WKU, NE Louisiana(now La-Monroe), MTSU, UMASS, Texas State, UCF have moved up to FBS. Boston U has dropped football.

NDSU, SDSU, Coastal Carolina, Wofford, Cal-Poly, S. Utah, Albany, Stony Brook, have joined FCS, but theses teams and others that have since joined FCS do not make up in QUALITY for the programs lost. As a whole, FCS is weaker now than it was 15 years ago, and the playoffs have 5 more at-large bids. This makes the playoff drought for YSU even worse.

Duplicating what happened at YSU from 91-99 is not reasonable to expect. But, making the playoffs 6-7 times a decade, and 1-2 of those years making a deep playoff run is reasonable. So is finishing higher than 3rd place in the MVFC 3-5 times per decade. And, I mean higher than 3rd place after tie-breakers are used. Not tie for 2nd, but losing to the team or teams YSU finished tied with for 2nd place. NDSU is on a great run, but it will come to an end. Not saying they will drop to the bottom of the MVFC, but they will eventually be dethroned as the Elite program in FCS. It happened to GSU on 2 different occasions. Happened to EKU. Happened to YSU. Montana is no longer the dominant program in the Big Sky. The question is, when NDSU falls back to the pack in the MVFC and FCS, will YSU be a team that takes advantage. Or, with they still be mired as a middle of the pack MVFC team, and a team that by the end of the year is not deserving of the playoffs?

[penguinpower]

I watched Bethune-Cookman play Hampton.   They are garbage and look like a high school team.  They would get smashed by us.  We wouldn't haveven to throw the ball once to beat them.  If the selection committee wants to pick the top 24 teams then we are in.  We are probably as good as #8 when we play well and as bad as #18 when we are pissing games away with errors. If you are #8 and have a few breaks during the game you can beat #1.