Author Topic: Richmond Suing  (Read 92619 times)

Offline The YO Show

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Re: Richmond Suing
« Reply #75 on: September 18, 2017, 04:46:05 PM »
Double ET some clarification from me. I did NOT sign the petition. However, by definition if the ability to be on an athletics team is a privilege, then it can be terminated at will. There are NCAA protections for scholarships depending on what was promised ect, but none of that applies in this cause.

Agreed, and to clarify my comment that not everyone can walk on was basically extrapolating out the argument that any student has a right under YSU established policy in the student guide book. The problems that exist with this statement are that there is a roster limitation as I explained and yes conceivably the coach would want to keep the most talented group on the limited roster size so some wouldn't "make the cut". But beyond that there are additional limitations to the right for all students to try out.

Example 1, NCAA eligibility requirements would come into play for any athlete. If you for example are working on a second bachelor's degree and are in your third year, even if you are 23, you are not eligible to play (all your years of eligibility are gone even if you haven't played because the clock starts from when you first enroll for your first bachelor's degree).

Example 2, if it is a privilege and not a right, then YSU is not required to ensure that you even get a tryout. YSU can simply deny your request, and not provide you with a reason (although they likely will).

Examples of it having been identified as a privilege:

I acknowledge that I can access the student-athlete handbook via the YSU web site at http://www.ysusports.com/information/compliance/handbook. I understand that I can print and obtain a hardcopy of the handbook free of charge in the Jermaine Hopkins Center for Academics. I am fully aware that participation in athletics at YSU is a privilege, not a right. My signature below verifies that I understand and do hereby agree to abide by these Student-Athlete Policies, Procedures, Rights and Responsibilities. I understand that nothing in this policy restricts my constitutionally granted rights, including the freedom of speech and religion. Finally, I understand and agree that failure to meet any of the University or Athletics Departments requirements, and/or violations of any policies may result in disciplinary measures, including but not limited to: reprimand, suspension, counseling, reduction and/or cancellation of athletic grant-in-aid and/or dismissal from my team.

As to your academic research competition, that is a different matter. Different rules apply. While both are extra circular activities, NCAA athletic regulations do NOT have an impact on academic research competitions. That being said, I could provide a couple of reasonable examples as to why one could deny a student participation in your above scenario. Let us assume that there can be only a finite number of team members. The individual student that scored the highest is notoriously unreliable. You know your team has a good shot at winning the competition regardless if that person is on the team. You could bar the student from joining.

 This is a completely separate argument though and maybe you can't. Because the rules are different. You aren't signing the same agreement that you are above for athletics. Different circumstances and rules mean that although both are extra circular you may not be able to evaluate both situations the same way.

Offline The YO Show

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Re: Richmond Suing
« Reply #76 on: September 18, 2017, 04:48:32 PM »
I will admit I don't know the student at all. Maybe he is trying to put his life together, but if you are ok with saying it is a privilege then it is a privilege of all students, which means it is not guarenteed. Again we are talking about sports not attending the university.

As the gender aspects of sports... let me ask this, do we have men playing volleyball? How about women's basketball?

On your football walk on comment, not everybody is allowed to walk onto the team. You have to make the team even if you walk out. There are roster limitations. We can't have unlimited students on the roster.

So again, if it is a privilege, you can absolutely block a student from participating for reasons other than their conduct and standing at the university. There is a perfect justification for a litany of coaching reasons, enough players at a given position, overall roster limitation ect
Title IX and the courts in their infinite wisdom have for all intents outlawed men's volleyball, and I actually think we DO have women playing BB.  (pretty good, you should check them out sometime)
Yes,you have to make the team and I have no doubt I would not have, and the Richmond did.  Played only a little yesterday and had a couple tackles and a sack.  Kid can play, I don't think that was ever a question.
Either we believe in what we say we believe in or we change it.  In this case it would require leaving the state school system and discrimination simply isn't allowed.  Personally I think it's a good rule.

I don' think he would have been able to make a discrimination case provided that we had not let him on the team in the first place. Which is what I still think would have been the right thing to do. Again, we went to where we did, which is why he absolutely should have sued. We can't cave to public pressure and it is NOW a discrimination case. Simply not letting him on the team originally? No leg to stand on in terms of a discrimination case.

Offline The YO Show

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Re: Richmond Suing
« Reply #77 on: September 18, 2017, 04:54:36 PM »
As a side note, individual member schools participating in NCAA sports set their own policies and practices regarding admission to sports teams. IN FACT, there are schools that require criminal background checks to be on the sports team. I can't find anything discussing current numbers but:

In 2011, Sports Illustrated and CBS News partnered with one another to research background check policies at the top 25 college football programs in the country. They found that only two of the top 25 teams at the time (the University of Oklahoma and Texas Christian University) had policies requiring criminal background screenings for incoming recruits. The investigation also discovered that seven percent of the players involved in those 25 programs had been in trouble with the law before or after entering college.
https://www.backgroundchecks.com/community/Post/4476/Could-Background-Checks-Become-a-Nationwide-Requirement-for-College-Sports-Recruits

Offline Double ET

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Re: Richmond Suing
« Reply #78 on: September 18, 2017, 05:24:47 PM »
Ok, YO SHOW
I really want to get off the subject since we don't agree on this and move.

According the your scenario, I will just ask couple of questions:
1. On the case which the student might be unreliable, so he would be selected. However, if the student was reliable and was the best in all evaluated categories, how do you propose to kick him/her out of the team.

2. You stated that it is ok to screen all imcoming students and athletes. I am in total agreement with you. Unless I am wrong, YSU did not screen or do background check on any incoming students or athletes. On what ground do we single him out? How do you propose YSU to screen the entire student body to identify those students who will not be allow to participate in the "privilege " activities?

As an faculty member of the university, I must follow university policy, state and federal laws and not act on my emotion and personal agenda.

Peace and go penguins

Offline The YO Show

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Re: Richmond Suing
« Reply #79 on: September 18, 2017, 06:00:22 PM »
Ok, YO SHOW
I really want to get off the subject since we don't agree on this and move.

According the your scenario, I will just ask couple of questions:
1. On the case which the student might be unreliable, so he would be selected. However, if the student was reliable and was the best in all evaluated categories, how do you propose to kick him/her out of the team.

2. You stated that it is ok to screen all imcoming students and athletes. I am in total agreement with you. Unless I am wrong, YSU did not screen or do background check on any incoming students or athletes. On what ground do we single him out? How do you propose YSU to screen the entire student body to identify those students who will not be allow to participate in the "privilege " activities?

As an faculty member of the university, I must follow university policy, state and federal laws and not act on my emotion and personal agenda.

Peace and go penguins

Yeah we can just move on. You make some good points, and my position on the whole debacle is somewhat a complicated matter. I will say I do not have an answer to question 1. There would likely be very limited if any recourse to kick someone off the team.

I didn't actually take the position that we screen all incoming students, just pointed it out as a future policy to address this situation, but I do think it would be a good idea. To answer question 2, we would not be allowed to  because they had not been completed prior to their admission to the team I suppose. But going forward, if we adopted this policy it would prevent this issue in the future. Besides, anytime a change like this is made, you have to "grandfather" clause existing players as no regulation like this would ever be ex post facto.

Offline The YO Show

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Re: Richmond Suing
« Reply #80 on: September 18, 2017, 06:02:59 PM »
One last thing, there is nothing the university can do at this point as he can't be removed from the team with the ongoing litigation. So I am not advocating that anything specific be done regarding him. This is up to the university to figure out and wait for the judge to rule on the case. And now we can move on  8)

Offline guinpen

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Re: Richmond Suing
« Reply #81 on: September 18, 2017, 08:27:31 PM »
For the love of Pete, this is such a non-issue. Kid should not have been bullied, but since he was and someone at YSU, guessing trustees, wimped out, he had to go the legal route. At this point the judge is running the show.
“Life is hard, it’s harder if you're stupid” - John Wayne

Offline IAA Fan

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Re: Richmond Suing
« Reply #82 on: September 19, 2017, 11:02:48 AM »
People, the university screwed up, just accept it and move on. they may have known this legal action was going to happen, just accept it and move on.

Offline YSUGO

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Re: Richmond Suing
« Reply #83 on: September 19, 2017, 11:45:12 AM »
Life isn't fair sometimes.  It's done.  Just like the Presidential election.  Grow a set and move on.  Go Penguins!
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Offline go guins

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Re: Richmond Suing
« Reply #84 on: September 19, 2017, 02:07:12 PM »
People, the university screwed up, just accept it and move on. they may have known this legal action was going to happen, just accept it and move on.
This is a bye week, why the rush to move on? 
I disagree.  I do NOT think the university screwed up. I believe the university. or at least a couple of significant leaders of YSU, saw a young man trying to turn a troubled life around and stepped in to HELP the young man.  I see a good chunk of the comunity and in particular the Vindicator as the screw ups.  Trying to block and ruin the young man's efforts to become a useful member of society.   The man in question servied his time.  If you believe his crime should be a death or at least life sentence then work to change the law.  For me, as a Christian, I am willing to forgive the guy and offer him a chance to rejoin society.  Many of you are not, and for that I am sad.  I'm proud of Bo's efforts in this case.   
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Offline edpuskas

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Re: Richmond Suing
« Reply #85 on: September 19, 2017, 06:08:08 PM »
People, the university screwed up, just accept it and move on. they may have known this legal action was going to happen, just accept it and move on.
This is a bye week, why the rush to move on? 
I disagree.  I do NOT think the university screwed up. I believe the university. or at least a couple of significant leaders of YSU, saw a young man trying to turn a troubled life around and stepped in to HELP the young man.  I see a good chunk of the comunity and in particular the Vindicator as the screw ups.  Trying to block and ruin the young man's efforts to become a useful member of society.   The man in question servied his time.  If you believe his crime should be a death or at least life sentence then work to change the law.  For me, as a Christian, I am willing to forgive the guy and offer him a chance to rejoin society.  Many of you are not, and for that I am sad.  I'm proud of Bo's efforts in this case.   
Maybe you can provide an example of the newspaper taking a position against Ma'lik Richmond playing. Because the only opinion piece to take a stand one way or the other that I can recall was in favor of the kid getting a second chance ("The school of redemption," Todd Franko, Aug. 6). Bertram de Souza's pieces ("Gift for YSU's faculty," Aug. 6; "Another black eye for Valley," Aug. 13; and "YSU's prez on hot seat," Sept. 17) mentioned Richmond, but the topic of each was how YSU leadership approached the subject. As far as I can tell, those columns took no stand on whether or not the kid should be on the team.

Facts matter. Misguided and misleading bloviation, not so much.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2017, 09:21:02 PM by edpuskas »

Offline IAA Fan

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Re: Richmond Suing
« Reply #86 on: September 19, 2017, 06:13:30 PM »
okay so then then the university screwed up go guins. The screw up was trying to trump law and the NCAA. We need to have a little faith in the original judge. I refuse to believe that a siting judge would not have sentenced him to a much more harsh sentence (let it transfer to adult prison at age 18-21) if this was a more serious crime. That being said, these protesters need to realize that their carrying on is doing more to diminish Richmond's actions. I applaud the efforts to try and keep him out (of school not merely football), but it is over and the smartest thing to do is spend your efforts keeping track of him, not holding up signs and drinking coffee. I am a person who believes all criminals have no rights. Rights only belong to law abiding citizens. However, that is not the way our legal system works and it is not fair to single out one person.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2017, 06:14:27 PM by IAA Fan »

Offline go guins

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Re: Richmond Suing
« Reply #87 on: September 20, 2017, 08:44:39 AM »
okay so then then the university screwed up go guins. The screw up was trying to trump law and the NCAA. We need to have a little faith in the original judge. I refuse to believe that a siting judge would not have sentenced him to a much more harsh sentence (let it transfer to adult prison at age 18-21) if this was a more serious crime. That being said, these protesters need to realize that their carrying on is doing more to diminish Richmond's actions. I applaud the efforts to try and keep him out (of school not merely football), but it is over and the smartest thing to do is spend your efforts keeping track of him, not holding up signs and drinking coffee. I am a person who believes all criminals have no rights. Rights only belong to law abiding citizens. However, that is not the way our legal system works and it is not fair to single out one person.
People who commit a chrime have NO RIGHTS?  EVER?  And I'm a Christian, so we will have to agree to seriously disagree. 
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Offline stuperman17

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Re: Richmond Suing
« Reply #88 on: September 20, 2017, 09:38:37 AM »
okay so then then the university screwed up go guins. The screw up was trying to trump law and the NCAA. We need to have a little faith in the original judge. I refuse to believe that a siting judge would not have sentenced him to a much more harsh sentence (let it transfer to adult prison at age 18-21) if this was a more serious crime. That being said, these protesters need to realize that their carrying on is doing more to diminish Richmond's actions. I applaud the efforts to try and keep him out (of school not merely football), but it is over and the smartest thing to do is spend your efforts keeping track of him, not holding up signs and drinking coffee. I am a person who believes all criminals have no rights. Rights only belong to law abiding citizens. However, that is not the way our legal system works and it is not fair to single out one person.
People who commit a chrime have NO RIGHTS?  EVER?  And I'm a Christian, so we will have to agree to seriously disagree.

Yea that's a pretty ridiculous statement.  They do have rights, whether it be Richmond or a person that served 20 years and is out and is now an abiding citizen... They do their time, society can't continue to punish them. 

Offline FOOTBALLFEVER

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Re: Richmond Suing
« Reply #89 on: September 28, 2017, 09:18:14 AM »
Richmond hearing for today has been postponed..probably a good thing..Need to stay focused for this game