Author Topic: Toledo defensive coordinator Jon Heacock named interim head coach  (Read 26095 times)

Offline Observer

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Re: Toledo defensive coordinator Jon Heacock named interim head coach
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2015, 09:06:53 AM »
Why is it we lose players to Akron and Kent.  No one goes to their games. No tradition.  No Bowl game until this year for Akron.  What is the draw.

3 letters.  N. F. L.   If you are a kid playing college football in anything but D3 you have been trained to think that if you "work hard enough" You'll play on Sunday.  We all know this is not true.  Getting to the NFL is equal parts talent, hardwork, and more luck than not.  Part of that luck is, the biggest college you can feasibly go to the better chance you'll be noticed.  Harrison, Edelman, Cribbs, Kline, Muir, Elam, Murray,Williams, Young, Gates, Simmons, Konz, Kitchen, Archer, Winters,  All in the NFL and all played for Kent State in the last 15-20 years.  There are probably more.  In all 40 players in kent states history have made the NFL.  I think that's a bit of a draw.

Offline ysubigred

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Re: Toledo defensive coordinator Jon Heacock named interim head coach
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2015, 10:26:07 AM »
Wolf > JH versus UNI and P5 schools.

I'd say that JH had the same resources as JT, but the truth is JH had more....much more.  JH was handed a playoff caliber team...built and ready....all that was required was maintaining it.  JT had to build the program when he took over.

JH could not match JT! Maybe because he was running a cleaner ship?! JH did not have half the $$ and facilities Wolfman had and produced better results with less #twocents  Funny how you mentioned how well Wolf had a team ready for P5 teams but lost 3, 4 games in a row to MVFC teams to end a season LOL!!

Offline ysubigred

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Re: Toledo defensive coordinator Jon Heacock named interim head coach
« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2015, 10:28:49 AM »
Wolf > JH versus UNI and P5 schools.

I'd say that JH had the same resources as JT, but the truth is JH had more....much more.  JH was handed a playoff caliber team...built and ready....all that was required was maintaining it.  JT had to build the program when he took over.

JH could not match JT! Maybe because he was running a cleaner ship?! JH did not have half the $$ and facilities Wolfman had and produced better results with less #twocents  Funny how you mentioned how well Wolf had a team ready for P5 teams but lost 3, 4 games in a row to MVFC teams to end a season LOL!! UNI?? Beat arguably the worst UNI team in 25 years  ::)
« Last Edit: December 01, 2015, 10:36:03 AM by ysubigred »

Offline IAA Fan

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Re: Toledo defensive coordinator Jon Heacock named interim head coach
« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2015, 10:49:27 AM »
Something else to bring up Red. When JT left, he not only left JH with no staff, Tressel also took all of his financial backers as well. This was a much more empty cupboard than people realize. It should also be pointed out that JT was his own AD, while Heacock had to answer to someone else. It may not seem like much, but it really is quite a change.

Offline Penguin Nation

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Re: Toledo defensive coordinator Jon Heacock named interim head coach
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2015, 12:11:22 PM »
Something else to bring up Red. When JT left, he not only left JH with no staff, Tressel also took all of his financial backers as well. This was a much more empty cupboard than people realize. It should also be pointed out that JT was his own AD, while Heacock had to answer to someone else. It may not seem like much, but it really is quite a change.

Balderdash.

I feel like I'm trying to convince you the sun rises in the East.

There are expected staff changes when there are HC changes.  But, let's take your premise seriously that JT left JH with an "empty cupboard."  What happened when JH filled the cupboard?  Let's look at his first four years as HC:

2001   Youngstown State   8–3   5–2   
2002   Youngstown State   7–4   4–3         
2003   Youngstown State   5–7   2–5         
2004   Youngstown State   4–7   2–5

Wait?! If the cupboard was bare in 2001, wouldn't that have been the worst year, and then the record would've improved after filling the cupboard?

The truth is the cupboard was full in 2001 with a team that was in the playoffs in 2000 and in a National Championship game in 1999.  JH set the cupboard on fire and then took a piss on it.

He has the skill set to be an DC.  I don't know anyone who would dispute that.  He is a proven failure at HC.  That's normal and that's OK.  No one is good at all things.  Paladin said something that is interesting.  Maybe at UT, his inadequacies as HC will be masked by a larger budget, fan base, etc.  I think that there likely is some truth in that. Also, likely he's learned a few things since his time at YSU.  My guess is if he becomes the permanent HC at UT, the slope of decline will be less steep than at YSU, but present nonetheless, and the tolerance for the decline will be very limited, and he'll be gone from UT within 5 years.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2015, 12:36:17 PM by Penguin Nation »
"These two cats that we played against from Youngstown State were as good of pass rushers as I've seen"

--WVU Head Coach Dana Holgorsen

Offline Penguin Nation

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Re: Toledo defensive coordinator Jon Heacock named interim head coach
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2015, 12:14:12 PM »
Wolf > JH versus UNI and P5 schools.

I'd say that JH had the same resources as JT, but the truth is JH had more....much more.  JH was handed a playoff caliber team...built and ready....all that was required was maintaining it.  JT had to build the program when he took over.
Tressel could not do squat in the OVC, which is why we went independent.

Our last year  in the OVC, we were 8-4/5-1, and tied for first place in the OVC.....and made the playoffs.
"These two cats that we played against from Youngstown State were as good of pass rushers as I've seen"

--WVU Head Coach Dana Holgorsen

Offline paladin

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Re: Toledo defensive coordinator Jon Heacock named interim head coach
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2015, 01:26:12 PM »
Understand, much of the MAC is glorified FCS players, not true FBS caliber players. Yet given the choice , a local player will most always opt for the Kent, Akrons and Ball St.s . It isn't a better program, but it is the "big time" , even as a perpetual major loser. Consider that if the local player was a true FBS type, he would get B1G, ACC, etc offers. He'd go there. But he is getting a glorified FCS offer to go to Kent or Akron as a "fbs".

Toledo draws a strong Toledo area base of talent and recruits well in Cleveland, Columbus  and Dayton-Cincy. Add in W.Pa and Fla. and they get good kids. Even bad coaches at Toledo get good players. Many are offered by the dregs of the B1G and chose UT becasue they still get a FBS schollie but at a winning tradition program. That may give Heacock some cushion. While he might get the job, I'd be looking for a younger coach and one making a name for himself on the way up the ranks... hungry........ Heacock lacks fire and drive as a senior citizen.  And, he is going nowhere.

Offline go guins

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Re: Toledo defensive coordinator Jon Heacock named interim head coach
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2015, 03:10:54 PM »
"Understand, much of the MAC is glorified FCS players, not true FBS caliber players"
OK, boy wonder, you just put this s _ _ _ like you know what you are talking about and most times you don't have a clue.  Just WTF is a "glorified FCS player"?  You type like you are saying something, but it is just meaningless drivel.
You say "Toledo draws a strong Toledo area base of talent and recruits well in Cleveland, Columbus  and Dayton-Cincy. Add in W.Pa and Fla"
YSU has more local area talent on our roster than Toledo does from around Toledo and we have far more Fla. players than Toledo.  Again, you just make S _ _ _ and post it as fact, when it isn't.
All your crap about "better programs" carrying things on it's own, is NOT TRUE.  Maybe for a season or 2 but college 'ball (Foot and basket) are all about recruiting.  UNC basketball #1 or #2 all time, but put Guthrie in charge and what happens?  Michigan at least top 5 all time in football and put a couple bums in charge for a few years and what happens? 
Watching Penquins Football & Basketball since 1967!

Offline IAA Fan

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Re: Toledo defensive coordinator Jon Heacock named interim head coach
« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2015, 05:35:18 PM »
Something else to bring up Red. When JT left, he not only left JH with no staff, Tressel also took all of his financial backers as well. This was a much more empty cupboard than people realize. It should also be pointed out that JT was his own AD, while Heacock had to answer to someone else. It may not seem like much, but it really is quite a change.

Balderdash.

I feel like I'm trying to convince you the sun rises in the East.

There are expected staff changes when there are HC changes.  But, let's take your premise seriously that JT left JH with an "empty cupboard."  What happened when JH filled the cupboard?  Let's look at his first four years as HC:

2001   Youngstown State   8–3   5–2   
2002   Youngstown State   7–4   4–3         
2003   Youngstown State   5–7   2–5         
2004   Youngstown State   4–7   2–5

Wait?! If the cupboard was bare in 2001, wouldn't that have been the worst year, and then the record would've improved after filling the cupboard?

The truth is the cupboard was full in 2001 with a team that was in the playoffs in 2000 and in a National Championship game in 1999.  JH set the cupboard on fire and then took a piss on it.

He has the skill set to be an DC.  I don't know anyone who would dispute that.  He is a proven failure at HC.  That's normal and that's OK.  No one is good at all things.  Paladin said something that is interesting.  Maybe at UT, his inadequacies as HC will be masked by a larger budget, fan base, etc.  I think that there likely is some truth in that. Also, likely he's learned a few things since his time at YSU.  My guess is if he becomes the permanent HC at UT, the slope of decline will be less steep than at YSU, but present nonetheless, and the tolerance for the decline will be very limited, and he'll be gone from UT within 5 years.

I really do not see the point that you are trying to make. Obviously, the immediate players stayed similar, but there was limited input from coach H beyond what he did under JT. Which is also the point that you are making. We differ on the reason why ...you say the decline came because coach H lacked skill and I say it was many other items, none more than a lack of resources. Players are players, they change least of all as they are already there (at least 3-4 years worth). I am talking about staff & in particular coach H's ability to bring in quality staff. There is no denying he had no previous HC experience at the DI collegiate level.

Answer this ...do you think the head coach Jon Heacock had the financial resources to hire DC Jon Heacock? NOT EVEN CLOSE. Coach H left YSU for a much higher paying position with Indiana. He only came back because he knew the HC job was soon to be his and that is what he wanted. Our most recent DC's salary was almost higher than Jon Heacock's entire staff (including himself). We were one of the lowest paying colleges in I-AA and this lack of resources showed. We had limited improvements to existing facilities. We hired coaches "on the cheap" that were close to the program like Cochran, Klasic and frankly Jon Heacock. I understand the lack of resources as we were in a desperate need to meet grossly-neglected Title-IX requirements & Strollo did what had to be done. The difference between you & I their is that I respect Strollo for what he did, as I respect Jon Heacock for the same. You do not.

Give this some thought: Jim Tressel's legacy at YSU was primarily defined by his hiring at OSU. Truly, 9 out of 10 recruits really had no idea whom he was at YSU. To prospective non-local recruits Tressel was no different than any other I-AA coach at the time. The reason non-local recruits came here was because we had "national titles" (as compared to other I-AA programs) and I bet the average recruit did not even realize that they all fell under JT's watch. Now once hired at OSU, many of JT's perspective YSU recruits (most-especially local) for the first-time probably realized how much talent that JT had (that is if he was good enough for the buckeyes, then he is too good for YSU) and they in-turn chose not to come to YSU, as they did not want to play under what is always the inevitable downward trend following a legend. Then factor in how much this was compounded by the university's need and desire to stay as local as possible in recruiting. After all, the gas to Warren is cheaper than plane flights to Florida and California.

Secondly, for your consideration: (If you believe that YSU had some resources to hire a quality staff after Jim Tressel) From the time Jim Tressel first received word he was most-likely going to OSU (which was quite some time before he actually left) he contacted anyone and everyone to see if they had interest in coaching with him in Columbus. Of course he knew it would be at least a year or 2, so these people would refuse any other job offer ...including those from new YSU head-coach Jon Heacock. So JT not only took Heacock's existing staff, but also potential quality staff member hoping to get even a minor roll in the "JT/OSU show". Why not? A year as even an unpaid assistant at OSU gives you tremendous second-job opportunity.

The only reason we kept OC Jon Heacock was because he wanted to stay local with his family. His skills as as OC are average to above; but that is the most I would give him, but he certainly was qualified to be a coach at any FBS program. Furthermore I have never said he was "the cat's meow" of coaching at any position. His skills as a head coach are far better than his skills as an OC (although maybe not the case in 2015). I simply saw a man that gave everything he had to this university & his skills were quite good; in his own way, better than Tressel as he was far more willing to adapt. What I see in coach H is that he is committed. This level of commitment is not unnoticed by the UT administration. This is why he is the interim head coach.

BTW, at no other university (outside of YSU) could JH's perceived inadequacies be masked more than at YSU; he was family. UT is not big school. Can they recruit better than YSU? ...by far. Any recruit would be a fool to chose YSU over UT on purely performance measures. Also, lasting 5-years would be a great accomplishment for JH or any coach.

As to your 1999 title game. I would ask you to recall that game and why we lost as that is what plagued coach H the majority of his head-coaching tenure; none more noticeable than in 2006. This post is already a book so I will not go there.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2015, 11:41:10 AM by IAA Fan »

Offline Penguin Nation

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Re: Toledo defensive coordinator Jon Heacock named interim head coach
« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2015, 09:41:44 AM »
Interesting article from the Vindy.  It appears unlikely that JH will be the Rocket's full time HC:

http://www.vindy.com/news/2015/dec/02/heacock-guiding-rockets/


"As for Heacock himself, it seems unlikely that he is getting a one-game audition to remove the interim tag.

“When I got into this I might have felt like that would be an option or least an opportunity, but the longer it goes, I think they’re looking for a guy with an offensive background and possibly some ties to the university,” he said.

“I think they’re looking outside the program. We have another guy, Jason Candle, who’s from the area and has been our offensive coordinator for seven years and has done a tremendous job and is a West Branch guy like myself.

“Between the two of us, we sensed it’s going to an outside source . They have search committee and in fairness, that’s the direction they’re going in and that’s fine. That’s their choice. It doesn’t have any impact on me hanging here trying to help these guys.” "


And JH continues to undermine YSU even after being fired by poaching talent away from the area:

"He still keeps up with affairs in the Mahoning Valley, more so the high school teams than YSU.

“I recruit that area, so I pay attention to a lot of the high school teams,” Heacock said. “Occasionally through the process I’ll hear a little bit about Youngstown. I do stay in touch with coach [Jim Tressel], who’s been very important in my life and who I have a lot of respect for. In all my stops, he and I have stayed in touch.” "

"These two cats that we played against from Youngstown State were as good of pass rushers as I've seen"

--WVU Head Coach Dana Holgorsen

Offline penguinpower

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Re: Toledo defensive coordinator Jon Heacock named interim head coach
« Reply #25 on: December 02, 2015, 10:26:20 AM »

And JH continues to undermine YSU even after being fired by poaching talent away from the area:

????????????
« Last Edit: December 02, 2015, 10:27:44 AM by penguinpower »

Offline paladin

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Re: Toledo defensive coordinator Jon Heacock named interim head coach
« Reply #26 on: December 02, 2015, 01:42:54 PM »
LOL ! After looking at Toledo's roster, he didn't get much !!  ;D

But to  be fair , there isn't  much here anymore.

Offline coachtress

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Re: Toledo defensive coordinator Jon Heacock named interim head coach
« Reply #27 on: December 03, 2015, 12:46:36 AM »
Jon Heacock single handedly destroyed the YSU football program.   I challenge anyone to tell me any different.  Now the idiot is still trying to attack YSU football...  what an idiot

Offline penguinpower

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Re: Toledo defensive coordinator Jon Heacock named interim head coach
« Reply #28 on: December 03, 2015, 06:02:24 AM »
Jon Heacock single handedly destroyed the YSU football program.   I challenge anyone to tell me any different.  Now the idiot is still trying to attack YSU football...  what an idiot

Not taking sides in this one since I know nothing about this, but I recall that the entire firing and contract situation was botched badly.  I was at the selection show in DeBartolo stadium club when Heacock basically broke down and expressed his dissatisfaction with how the assistant coaches contracts were handled.  He was some kind if pissed off.  Keep in mind Tressel left him with Klacik (who is probably missing a chromosome) and Rekstis who is also a bumbling moron.  It took Heacock a few years to dump them and get new coaches developed.  I think Heacock lacked the contacts in the coaching community and was not big on recruiting.  Pair that with small budgets and how could you be surprised at the result?

Offline IAA Fan

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Re: Toledo defensive coordinator Jon Heacock named interim head coach
« Reply #29 on: December 03, 2015, 06:48:19 AM »
Jon Heacock single handedly destroyed the YSU football program.   I challenge anyone to tell me any different.  Now the idiot is still trying to attack YSU football...  what an idiot

?? I more than challenge you and how is he "still trying to attack YSU football"? It is a nice article.