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YSU Penguin Athletics => YSU Penguin Athletics => Topic started by: ysuindy on March 12, 2012, 12:11:52 PM
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Andy Katz reporting that Butler is interested in filling Temple's spot in the Atlantic 10 when the Owls move to the Big East.
http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/53114/3-point-shot-3
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Indy you used the email link instead of the url link.
http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/53114/3-point-shot-3 (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/53114/3-point-shot-3)
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bye bye
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Indy you used the email link instead of the url link.
http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/53114/3-point-shot-3 (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/53114/3-point-shot-3)
Oops - thanks Bear May - had e-mailed to my son before hitting copy I guess.
The question I have is if Butler (or anyone) leaves, do their NCAA tournament units go with them or stay with the league they were earned in? Or is it up for negotiation? And what are the terms for leaving the Horizon League.
One of the first thoughts I had was this would take the Horizon League to only 5 teams in baseball, one less than the NCAA minimum to maintain an automatic bid. (CSU dropped baseball after last season). Wonder if that impacts any other sports?
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if they go, i think Oakland from the Summit would be the best fit to replace them.
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Hoops, Detroit has expressed a major problem with Oakland joining when the Horizon was thinking of expanding. They do not want to recruit competition.
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My son and I had this discussion earlier. I suspect Detroit would block Oakland, but what does it take to block a school? Can one school do it? I believe Oakland has baseball, which as mentioned below is important.
IUPUI would be an Indy replacement for Butler, but I have long heard that Indiana University really doesn't want a strong IUPUI program - and assume the same applies for Purdue and IPFW.
A few years back Northern Kentucky was mentioned as a possibility as they moved up - they joined the Atlantic Sun.
I wonder if Robert Morris would be a possibility? No baseball for RMU, however. Do you tell a school that wants to join that you need to add baseball?
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If/when Butler leaves, their give up their share of NCAA tournament money. It gets divided up between the other 9 HL teams and the HL.
Detroit has blocked Oakland in the past, but they won't be able to block it now. To join the HL you need a 3/4 vote of HL members. Detroit kept Oakland from getting a 3/4 vote by getting Butler and Loyola to vote with them. Without Butler's vote, Detroit cannot block Oakland from joining unless they can convince another HL member from voting for them and I don't think anyone else would want to keep them out. They make the most sense. The HL will look at 4 things if they have to replace Butler:
1. We need to add a solid basketball program. Oaklands RPI over the last 4 years has been: 141, 53, 52, 122 for an average of 92.
2. The school needs to make sense geographically. Oakland would be natural travel partners with Detroit.
3. They need to have a similar financial commitment to athletics. HL teams spend between 9-12 million a year on athletics. Oakland spends almost 10 million.
http://www.bbstate.com/info/schools-budget&c=SUMM
4. We need to add a school that plays baseball. The HL will lose it's automatic NCAA tournament bid if we don't replace Butler with a school that has baseball. Oakland does.
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Oakland is very good in baseball. Very strong women's programs (which is how YSU got in).
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Green Bay beat writer joining a few Dayton based reporters in tweeting that Butler to the A-10 is effectively a done deal.
https://twitter.com/#!/RobDemovsky (https://twitter.com/#!/RobDemovsky)
Guessing that the Horizon League schools are hooked in to what is going on and these guys are hitting up their sources inside the school athletic departments.
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Just opinion but, not a very smart move. Back-to-back final appearances can do better than the A-10. I do not see it happening. Although the A-10 dropped FB, so that hurdle is "jumped".
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Just opinion but, not a very smart move. Back-to-back final appearances can do better than the A-10. I do not see it happening. Although the A-10 dropped FB, so that hurdle is "jumped".
Not really sure they can do better. Without football the Big 6 conferences are out of the question. Unless they wait for the Big East football schools to break away and try to align with the non-football schools like St. John's, Georgetown, Nova, DePaul, etc, I don't know where else Butler goes. As I saw mentioned elsewhere, this is the first conference move in a long time not being driven by football.
8 of the top 10 Sagarin conference play, or pretend to play, "big time football." Only the Atlantic 10 (#7) and Missouri Valley (#9) do not. The West Coast Conference is #11 and the Horizon is #12.
I think the Valley would force Butler to really step up the non-basketball spending and performance. The overall depth of the athletic programs seems far greater than that of the Horizon. And is the Valley, with its college town teams, what Butler wants? I don't know how many alumni are in Carbondale, Cedar Falls and Springfield versus Philadelphia, Cincinnati and Pittsburgh?
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I agree completely Indy ...which is why I would think that they would stay in the HL.
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This is pretty much a done deal... all they have to do is announce it.
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if the HORIZON takes Oakland from Summit....... take NDSU too ?? cuz the summit would officially suck.
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Welcome aboard Bison. I don't know ...the Dakota's add some flavor & ORU has been a quality program for a long time. The Summit did lose a lot when Valpo left though. YSU was in the Summit as well. ORU also fits with the Horizon's "religious" flavor of old. At one point, all the teams in the Horizon were religiously affiliated in some fashion ...mostly Catholic.
Butler: Lutheran
Dayton: Catholic
UDM: Catholic
Xavier: Catholic
Notre Dame: Catholic (although we did not have them for basketball)
Creighton: Catholic
Loyola: Catholic
LaSalle: Catholic
Marquette: Catholic
St. Louis: Catholic
Oral Roberts: Christian (was already a member). I wonder what they are missing that they cannot come back? They left in 1987.
Oakland has come a long way. They have strong woman's programs & a quality men's basketball program.
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While the Bison would bring a better recent basketball pedigree than YSU did at the time (although YSU had a few conference champ losses to Valpo), I just don't see the big city Horizon adding Fargo that is two states away from the nearest conference school.
YSU had some pull among the presidents and had the baseball program to keep the Horizon at the NCAA minimum of 6 for an auto bid. Oakland will get the Horizon back to 6. If Oakland doesn't work, the Bison baseball program at least gets your letter opened, but I would say the odds are not very great.
Just don't see NDSU and the Horizon - don't know what your chances for the Missouri Valley would be IF Evansville is courted by the Horizon as a replacement for Butler.
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I personally don't think Butler is going anywhere. They have the world by the azz here, why switch??
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I personally don't think Butler is going anywhere. They have the world by the azz here, why switch??
It's a done deal already. The A-10 is just waiting to finalize contracts with VCU and George Mason so they can announce all 3 school are joining the A-10 at the same time.
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Youre probably right.
NDSU dream scenario is the Mountain West or ALL SPORTS Missouri Valley. So I guess we'll just see what shakes out.
and ORU is already gone to the southland by the way.
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I personally don't think Butler is going anywhere. They have the world by the azz here, why switch??
It's a done deal already. The A-10 is just waiting to finalize contracts with VCU and George Mason so they can announce all 3 school are joining the A-10 at the same time.
Are you sure D? Our AD doesn't think they're going.
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Nothing good can happen by them leaving. I'm sure that the AD is denying the move in fear that it may effect slocums incoming recruits? I think I would do the same this late in the game. Especially with one of them coming from Indy.....
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I personally don't think Butler is going anywhere. They have the world by the azz here, why switch??
It's a done deal already. The A-10 is just waiting to finalize contracts with VCU and George Mason so they can announce all 3 school are joining the A-10 at the same time.
Are you sure D? Our AD doesn't think they're going.
No offense, but I think your AD is completely out of the loop. Everything I hear says it's a done deal. I think LeCrone's silence the last few weeks tells you all you really need to know.
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If they are bringing in VCU & GMU ...then this whole thing makes more sense.
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ORU also fits with the Horizon's "religious" flavor of old. At one point, all the teams in the Horizon were religiously affiliated in some fashion ...mostly Catholic.
Butler: Lutheran
Butler is not Lutheran. It was loosely affiliated with the Disciples of Christ denomination at one point but that ended long before the Horizon/MCC was created. It is purely secular.
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Plain Dealer reporting that Butler is indeed leaving for the A-10.
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Front page Sports story in today's Indy Star on the possible move - this is probably an easier read if you click on the link
http://www.indystar.com/article/20120429/SPORTS0605/204290342/Do-dollars-make-sense-Butler-join-Atlantic-10-?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|IndyStar.com|s (http://www.indystar.com/article/20120429/SPORTS0605/204290342/Do-dollars-make-sense-Butler-join-Atlantic-10-?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|IndyStar.com|s)
Moving to the Atlantic 10 Conference could increase Butler's sports travel costs by more than $500,000 a year.
But that should not prevent the Indianapolis-based Bulldogs from leaving the Horizon League and joining the East Coast-based conference, according to athletic directors whose schools made similar moves.
"It's very manageable," said Xavier athletic director Mike Bobinski, whose school moved from the then-Midwestern Collegiate Conference (now Horizon) in 1995. "You have to strategize and plan for it. It's not insurmountable, by any stretch."
Richmond left the Colonial Athletic Association for the Atlantic 10 in 2001. Athletic director Jim Miller said the cost of travel was not relevant.
"What is relevant is being in the best basketball conference we can be in," Miller said.
Both athletic directors said they would welcome Butler's admission. There has been speculation that Colonial members Virginia Commonwealth and George Mason will announce as soon as this week that they will join the Atlantic 10.
All three prospective new members have reached the Final Four since 2006.
New members would not play in the Atlantic 10 until the 2013-14 school year. The league will lose Temple to the Big East after next season.
Athletic director Barry Collier has declined to comment on Butler's interest in the Atlantic 10.
Butler, as a private school, is not required to release all financial data. The Indianapolis Star obtained the most recent figures available for revenues and expenses from two public schools in the Atlantic 10 -- Massachusetts and Charlotte -- and two in the Horizon -- Milwaukee and Wright State.
Excluding UMass football, which has played in the Football Championship Subdivision (formerly I-AA), travel costs for the two A-10 schools were 41 percent greater than for the two Horizon members.
The average difference was $638,033, a steep price to pay annually. The cost could be greater than that for Butler, whose campus is 500 or more miles from eight of the 12 other A-10 members in a league that stretches from St. Louis to Charlotte to Amherst, Mass.
Horizon Commissioner Jon LeCrone didn't specify what the exit fee would be if Butler left.
Butler's motivation to join the Atlantic 10 would be to enhance its men's basketball program. Theoretically, the Bulldogs could more easily get into the NCAA tournament, increase attendance and exposure, and widen recruiting.
Butler would likely receive more from an A-10 share of NCAA tournament revenue because the conference consistently puts multiple teams in the field.
But more tournament revenue could still leave Butler with a shortfall. Charlotte's A-10 distribution was $960,289, compared with Milwaukee's $660,200. That would be a net gain of $300,089, or about half the amount of the higher travel expenses.
(UMass' distribution was about $1.3 million. A UMass spokeswoman declined to specify why the amount exceeded that of Charlotte. Distribution includes revenue for postseason appearances in sports other than basketball.)
Broadcast rights money for all four schools studied was negligible.
In a letter to trustees last month, Butler President James Danko wrote that A-10 membership was worth considering but that "we would need to undertake a full cost/benefit analysis."
Butler would earn more if basketball attendance increases in the 10,000-seat fieldhouse. Averages of the past three seasons represent the highest figures in four decades: 6,953 in 2009-10; 7,178 in 2010-11; 6,599 in 2011-12.
One option would be to reduce sports offered from 19 to the Division I minimum of 14. However, Butler would be reluctant to do so, having already dropped men's lacrosse and swimming.
Travel in individual sports -- cross-country, track, tennis, golf and swimming -- would be minimally affected. Those teams could retain current schedules, with the exception of travel to conference championships.
Bobinski said schedules can be adjusted outside the conference so that teams play closer to home, compensating for miles traveled inside the A-10.
"We don't fly every time we go on these trips, either," he said. "There are times when we have kids on fairly long bus trips."
Bobinski said Xavier improved its academic support for athletes because of time lost in transit but that technology allows them do class work from laptops almost anywhere.
"I don't know what would happen if you're on the bus for 13 hours to Kingston, R.I., or Amherst, Mass.," said Steve Farley, in his 21st year as Butler's baseball coach. "When is it a bus trip and when is it a flight?"
Employees in the athletic department said there hasn't been much office chatter about conference realignment.
In basketball, if not in geography, Butler is already closer to the A-10 than it is to its Horizon brethren. No Horizon team other than Butler has received an NCAA at-large bid since 1998. The A-10 had three at-large bids this year and 24 since 1998.
The Bulldogs' basketball budget of $3.5 million was 35 percent more than that of the Horizon's second-largest, Milwaukee. Butler would rank fourth in the A-10, led by Richmond's $4 million.
A 16-team league split into divisions could ameliorate costs for all schools.
Even without divisions in a 16-game basketball schedule, Butler could be assigned annual road games at Xavier (112 miles), Dayton (112), St. Louis (243) and Duquesne (359 to Pittsburgh). Those are routine Horizon trips, potentially leaving the Bulldogs with only two long trips of two games each.
Five A-10 schools once belonged to the MCC or Horizon: Xavier, Dayton, St. Louis, Duquesne and La Salle.
Miller said additional travel costs were "insignificant," compared to the benefit of playing in a strong basketball conference.
Bobinski said he was "not trying to poach the Horizon League" but that Butler was "a natural" to join Xavier in the Atlantic 10.
Atlantic 10 vs. Horizon League
What would it cost Butler to move from the Horizon League to the Atlantic 10? The Star received detailed data on athletic budgets from four public universities -- two in the Atlantic 10 (Massachusetts and Charlotte) and two in the Horizon League (Milwaukee and Wright State) -- to answer that question. (As a private school, Butler does not have to divulge such information.) Below is the primary financial benefit and detriment if Butler were to make the switch.
Revenue
Category UMass Charlotte Milwaukee Wright State
a-Conf. share $1,315,984 $960,289 $660,200 $633,166
Total travel expenses
Category UMass Charlotte Milwaukee Wright State
b-Total travel $1,884,563 $1,261,238 $1,043,715 $826,016
a -- NCAA/conference distributions, including all tournament revenue.
b -- Excludes $506,281 in UMass travel costs for football.
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In the paper, but not on-line are two charts - one shows the mileage from Indy to each Horizon League and A-10 school. the other show's the men's basketball budgets. Here are the budgets:
Atlantic 10
Richmond $4,056,940
Xavier 3,929,624
George Washington 3,480,829
Fordham 3,154,182
Temple 3,089,720
St. Jospeh's 3,020,790
St. Louis 2,951,351
Duquesne 2,928,573
Rhode Island 2,816,066
UMass 2,806,835
LaSalle 2,364,336
Charlotte 2,275,714
St. Bonaventure 1,592,420
Horizon League
Butler 3,541,122
Milwaukee 2,318,461
Detroit 2,307,818
UIC 2,137,097
Cleveland St 2,085,424
Wright State 1,990,710
Loyola 1,790,583
Valparaiso 1,645,652
Green Bay 1,409,931
YSU 1,022,407
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Indy Star reporting today (April 30) that the move is on hold
http://www.indystar.com/article/20120430/SPORTS0605/120430022/Butler-Bulldogs-Atlantic-10-relationship-hold (http://www.indystar.com/article/20120430/SPORTS0605/120430022/Butler-Bulldogs-Atlantic-10-relationship-hold)
If Butler is indeed changing conferences, the move is on hold.
Butler athletic department leaders met today to discuss possible Atlantic 10 membership, but no announcement was made afterward and none appears imminent.
For weeks, there has been speculation that Butler would leave the Horizon League and join the Atlantic 10 to enhance its men’s basketball program.
Butler, if moving to the Atlantic 10, would not play in the conference until the 2013-14 school year. Temple will be in the Atlantic 10 in 2012-13 before joining the Big East.
An Indianapolis Star study published Sunday indicated the move could cost Butler about $500,000 a year in increased travel expenses for all sports.
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Unless there is any magic to an announcement today or tomorrow as far as notice Butler needs to give to leave the Horizon League, I am not sure there is anything here that would make the move less likely. I believe these moves are typically always effective on July 1.
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Andy Katz reporting the move will be announced Wednesday, effective 2013-14
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/7879598/butler-bulldogs-join-atlantic-10-conference-all-sports-source-says (http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/7879598/butler-bulldogs-join-atlantic-10-conference-all-sports-source-says)
Butler will officially join the Atlantic 10 for the 2013-14 season on Wednesday, a source with direct knowledge of the negotiation process told ESPN.com on Tuesday night.
The Bulldogs will leave the Horizon League in all sports and join the A-10 after it formally seeks admission to the league. The A-10 will then accept the Bulldogs' application to make it official.
Butler will replace Temple and become the A-10's 14th member for the 2013-14 season. Temple is leaving the A-10 in 2013-14 for the Big East in all sports. Temple's football program is joining the Big East in fall 2012.
The move ends months of speculation that the Bulldogs would join the league, a coup for A-10 commissioner Bernadette McGlade in her first major decision since becoming head of the conference.
Butler is a two-time national runner-up under coach Brad Stevens in 2010 and '11. The Bulldogs, who missed the NCAA tournament this past season, have been the most dominant program in the Horizon League recently.
Butler's Indianapolis home helps the A-10 continue its migration to the Midwest, linking the Bulldogs with league members Xavier, Dayton, Duquesne and Saint Louis.
The rest of the league includes strong members UMass, Richmond, Saint Joseph's and Saint Bonaventure as well as Rhode Island, George Washington, La Salle and Fordham.
The one question mark is Charlotte. The 49ers were offered a spot in the Sun Belt, but rejected it, according to a source. The same source said Charlotte is expected to join Conference USA for all sports since it started a football program. A source with knowledge of the A-10's plans said the league expects Charlotte to leave, possibly as early as 2013 but it could be 2014.
The source said the A-10 has had talks with Colonial Athletic Association members George Mason and VCU, but the latter is on hold with the departure of athletic director Norwood Teague to the same position to Minnesota.
The A-10 isn't opposed to going to 16 teams, but then would have to have a third member, possibly out of the CAA, to get to that number if Charlotte were to leave. The A-10 could simply pluck one of the two CAA Virginia schools to replace the 49ers but it's hard to say if they would be split apart.
Regardless, the A-10 pulled off a coup in basketball realignment that is akin at its level to the ACC getting Syracuse and Pitt from the Big East in the power six. The A-10 had to replace a legitimate tradition-rich basketball school in Temple with a comparable school and did so with Butler.
The A-10 is expected to stay at 14 teams in one division. But if the A-10 were to go to 16 teams then it would explore a two-divisional format. But the source said there hasn't been any discussion of moving to divisions.
Butler's departure will crush the Horizon League. The Horizon League is left with lower-profile Midwestern schools in Cleveland State, Loyola (Ill.), Detroit, Illinois-Chicago, Green Bay, Milwaukee, Valparaiso, Wright State and Youngstown State.
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Butler press conference at Noon, Horizon League commissioner LeCrone has a 2 p.m. conference call.
As discussion on a replacement begin, remember all of our earlier discussions that the Horizon League will need to add at least one team that plays baseball to be able to keep the automatic bid to the baseball tournament.
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Since this certainly looks official, it is terrible news for the Horizon League. But it is very good news for YSU. Look at the basketball budgets that Indy posted earlier in this thread. We go from being 2.5 million behind the league leader to 1.3 million, just like that. And Butler can and does get prime talent; Milwaukee and Cleveland State can not recruit at that level (unless they embrace thugs that big-time powers don't want.)
You can say that the Horizon League lost much prestige and now has little chance of attaining multiple tournament bids. True, but what has that got to do with us? Again, if other schools in the league start to lose high caliber recruits because of the defection of Butler, that just further helps us close the talent gap.
Some have proposed leaving the Horizon League for a conference that plays at the level of the NEC. OK, but what if the entire league now drops in quality and starts to resemble the NEC. Again, that is very good for us.
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I see good and bad for YSU in Butler's move.
The obvious good - as Wick notes the big spending team in the league has left - kind of like the Yankees and Red Sox leaving the American League. It also removes one roadblock from the dream of winning the Horizon League tournament (I know an immaterial change in an immaterial percentage).
The bad - potential impact on recruiting. I have to assume Butler was a selling point for the coaches - hey we play with them and we beat them. I loved the Weber signing and am hoping it helps YSU establish a toehold in the fertile Indy area basketball scene. Does the Weber signing happen if Butler isn't in the Horizon League - does the lack of a YSU game in Indy each year hurt recruiting? clearly YSU can schedule IUPUI or nearby Ball State to keep a game in this area (note this is as much a request for me to be able to go to a game).
The real bad for YSU - the potential that this leads to further splintering in the Horizon League. You may well see an each man for himself mentality. I really don't know who else in the League is attractive to other conferences - Milwaukee fans think really highly of their program, but I can't see anyone beating down the door to take any of the HL teams. If Cleveland State can find a way to draw crowds, they have the best chance. But any further departures could push YSU somewhere we don't want to be.
I spent a few minutes amusing myself scanning through the boards of the other Horizon League teams for reaction, replacements, etc. You can easily tell which of the schools have baseball teams - they are the ones mentioning the new school needs a baseball team. Of course, virtually every one of them wants to boot YSU as well (I especially enjoyed the reply on the UIC to the board to the poster who called YSU the "anchor" of the league - YSU won more league games last season that UIC has in the last 3 combined).
Oakland is probably the most frequently mentioned team and one that would make some sense. As always, you have the question of whether Detroit would try to block that move.
I laugh at those who suggest Murray State - unless the Racers want to join YSU in the MVFC, that isn't happening.
I am not sure how many of the other mentioned have baseball:
Robert Morris
Drexel (can't see why they would want to leave the CAA and have a YSU road trip as their closest)
Morehead State
Bellmont (moving to OVC)
Northern Kentucky (just moving up fro DII)
Duquesne (can't see them leaving the A10 particularly after the coaching change)
IUPUI
IPFW
Evansville (would they want to leave the Valley)
There really isn't a good answer that I see. Will be interesting to see if LeCrone has anyone ready to go.
Those local in Youngstown, keep us posted if there are any YSU comments later today after LeCrone has his call.
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no one has really been able to convince me this is smart move for butler
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In terms of bad things that can happen to a program - saw a note that indicated after this last round of FBS football realignments, it appears Idaho is going to be left without a home in a FBS conference. It was suggested they need to drop down to FCS (and presumably the Big Sky).
Given YSU's geographical isolation in the FCS full scholarship world, its always going to be a concern of mine.
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http://www.horizonleague.org/live/6312 (http://www.horizonleague.org/live/6312)
Link to LeCrone's call
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Listened to the call. No Mahoning Valley media asked questions. Green Bay, Valpo, Wright State and Indy guys seemed to ask almost all of them.
Highlights:
Leagues have a two year window to reach the minimum of six teams to keep the baseball automatic bid. The Horizon League therefore has a two year "waiver" for the 2014 and 2015 tournaments wherein they could play with five teams. They must have a sixth baseball team for the 2015-16 school year (2016 tournament).
Prospective members must be approved by a 2/3rd majority vote. This would be 6 of the 9 schools. A school has veto power for any school located within 25 miles, however this veto can be overrode by unanimous vote of the other schools. The practical application here would be whether Detroit could veto Oakland as a member.
LeCrone would not disclose the exit fee for Butler - I guess it will slip out somehow.
League headquarters to remain in Indy.
Confirmed all the men's basketball units earned by Butler stay with the league per NCAA rules.
Mentioned that the league does have a 5,000 seat arena rule - but it can be waived - although the example he gave was playing a random game at a smaller arena.
LeCrone continually mentioned that the expansion process would be "thoughtful" and "collaborative."
Some thoughts on the comments made:
Good to know that baseball has a window to get to six teams. At times I think the baseball program at YSU might be the one that keeps it in the League.
The HLHoops blogger tweeted that mapquest shows Oakland being 26.2 miles from Detroit. Given this is road distance, he speculates the actual straight line distance is probably within the 25 mile radius. My opinion is that with all the statements made about "collaborative" processes, there is no way that Oakland's admission will come down to the other 8 teams overriding a Detroit veto. I suspect any announcement that is made will be of a unanimous approval for any team that joins. Whether back-channel discussions leak out remains to be seen.
The 5,000 seat arena application would appear to apply to Robert Morris. I think LeCrone was intentionally vague about the application of the rule. That being said, I can't see the Horizon League wanting to play long term in a 3,000 seat arena.
It was interesting reading some of the other boards about how the league office "has" to move if Butler isn't in the league because there would be no team in Indy. I can't see the schools wanting to incur the expenses to move the office (everything is more expensive in Chicago) as well as risk losing some key people who would not be willing to relocate. The Missouri Valley Conference offices are in St. Louis (no MVC team), the MAC offices are in Cleveland.
It will be interesting to see how things play out.
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Indy, just a few more thoughts.
The "waiver" period is indeed wonderful. There is no need for the conference to make a rash decision.
Didn't Oakland build a new, but small, gym while we were still in the Mid-Con? Didn't think it was 5,000. Might be wrong.
I have zero fear that the Horizon League will splinter. Despite the delusions of fans at several schools, these institutions have nowhere to go. Obviously, Butler is the first basketball-driven movement in the past decade. That opportunity came only with their amazing run and their location in talent paradise. Delusional fans can't seem to grasp that college athletics is football-driven and that their school ain't got the goods.
If the Horizon League really wants to save baseball, it could adopt this draconian measure. Make it a mandatory sport. The new rules would look something like this, with a large participation team sport offered during each season of the academic year:
For the men, offer soccer or non-league football in the fall, offer basketball in the winter, offer baseball in the spring.
For the women, offer soccer (or volleyball) in the fall, offer basketball in the winter, offer softball in the spring.
Detroit, Cleveland State, Loyola, and Green Bay would be livid about the baseball requirement. But where would they go? To the Summit League? ::)
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Wick - looks like a little over 4,000 for Oakland.
Northern Kentucky's new arena holds more than 9,000.