State of YSU Football

[guinpen]

This topic is as regular as my Aunt Betty.

Certainly playing the teams that are in the MAC would be great, close enough so that fans could travel, we know these teams, we can relate to them, a lot more fan interest. Sure there are some minor issues like where do we get the extra money and that may be possible to overcome. BUT and may I repeat BUT the major problem is that they do not want us. Plain and simple.

I do not care for our current league, it is a pretty good league with some great programs. We are also a great program but the schools are just too far away. The Dakotas play some good ball but really, who cares! NDSU played in two title games and I had no interest in watching.

OVC would be a little better, closer schools but not playing at the same level overall.

CAA - I could live with that, tough league, not all but more schools closer to us.

Independent - been there done that. Times have changed so I am not sure this is an option anymore. Would have to play two money games and the non-schollies and then hope to get some nice home and home with several FCS schools.

[goodnews]

Im afraid that in 3-5 years YSU will need the MAC and at that point no one will care what YSU did in the 90s (25 years later) or if they want a home game in return...  With the BIG10 no longer playing teams from the MVFC the logical replacement will be adding more games from the MAC... Travel limitations (cost) and regional universities will benefit more and more from their Big Brothers... I just hope that the powers who be at YSU have a vision of what college football will look like in 5 to 10 years...?  If you all remember we were late to the dance with money games but must give the AD credit for maximizing the returns financially...

[penguinpower]

I have been indifferent to going FBS but after thinking on it:

YSU could get the extra money playing an all FBS schedule. It is sort of like when u make more money you live in a bigger house. If YSU was fbs we could scheddule more than 1 B1/ team each year to help pay the bills plus we would get more money for each game we play against other teams in the MAc etc. I

It is all relative. I haven't disected the numbers but just throwing out the idea.

[paladin]

A number of thoughts ........

1. The MAC ain't happening. Too expensive. Need double the current athletic budget. No way to fund it.

2. Other than maybe beating cellar dwellars like Akron and maybe Kent, to play the MAC would be a butt kicking annually. YSU would not compete well overall.

3. You got a poor AD right now running the ship. I trust none of his decisions on who to hire , who to extend contacts of, keeping people when they should be let go or who to play. I see an athletic   dept in the MAC that would drown all the sports with poor decisions.

4. The overall sports program would also  suffer  competitively in the MAC, not just football.

5. I note that this season ticket  prices went up and can't be justified. People aren't coming because of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$, just so you know. Concession prices went up and most have to pay to park. How much more would all these have to go up to help fund an entry in the MAC ?

6.Most students don't come to games now. Why should they pay more for athletic fees to support a move to the MAC ? With $$$$$$$$$ tight in the overall university budget, where does academic $$$$$$$$ come from to aid the MAC move ?

7. What advantage is gained recruiting wise over the MAC overall ?  I see major problems competeing for the same caliber of athlete ( higher than we have now) .

8.We still don't have a campus baseball diamond. Sorry, but a Pro stadium off campus doesn't cut it.

9.  YSU would still be a commuter campus vs  MAC  schools with full time students living on their campuses , enhancing student life.

10. Like  it or not, YSU is still viewed as not as academically acceptable as most of the MAC. That is still a negative view of YSU held by   the Presidents and not one  easily  overcome.


The MAC isn't happening.


 

[penguinpower]

Not to derail this but your point about academics:

Why would YSU be looked at as academically unequal? Most of the MAC schools are liberal arts colleges. No offense to liberal arts majors intended, but colleges that have a a strength in science, technonolgy, engineering and math are much better and produce more job ready students.

YSU has a real strength here. I will give all a personal example. I am one of 5 children and we are all locals to YSU.  All of us went to YSU for undergrad.  I have two brothers that are MD's. One is an Invasive Cardiologist, one is a Pathologist. I have a sister thatvhas a PhD in Pharmacy (they call them Pharm D's) and I have another sister getting a PhD in molecular biochemistry at Emory University.  My brother  (the Cardiologist) went to Emory for his fellowship and they accecpt only 2 students per year.

Emory is so impressed with my sister that they have accepted two other YSU students into their elite program and said YSU is one of the best kept secrets that Emory has going for it. The chemistry department at YSU has a pipeline into Emory and they are taking a hard  look at more YSU students. Keep in mind that Emory is one of the top programs in the world in biomolecular research. The CDC is even hooked on to their campus. They may take only 14 students from the entire world per year into thier chemistry program. There are currently at least  3 YSU students there now. My sister was the first person from YSU to be accepted into thier chemistry program.

My two brothers and other sister mixed it up a little after YSU but between the 3 they attened University of Florida, Ohio State, and even East Carolina University's robotic surgery program (#1 in USA).  Many of these programs take 1 -2 students per year and not only that but they have to match to get in.  They all did it with a YSU education.

Heck of the 8 kids that I graduated with at YSU one of them went to MIT and is a professor there now, one went into the Navy Nuclear program as a civilian instructor, and one got his PhD at Notre Dame and works at Los Alamos (last I heard), and the rest went into industry and are scattered.  2 of the 8 students have PhD's from some of the most elite institutions.  That's is a rate of 25% and that is unheard of (and I purposfully ended with a prepositional phrase to the liberal arts majors).   

What school are you going to go to and get student to teacher ratios of 8 students per teacher where every teacher has a PhD?  No where.  Period.  Especially for the money. YSU is a fine academic institution.  Just becuase they do not offer much in the way of Post Doctoral Education means nothing.  All of my peers and family members have been successful in each of the respective fields from the education we received at YSU. YSU just got that $400,000,000 STEM grand from Siemens. This will only strengthen an excellent STEM program.

Why woulkd YSU be frowned upon academically?   Liberal arts colleges teach a lot of subjects where upon graduation the students most common saying is "Do you want fries with that?"

In addition, it is much easier to run a Post Doctoral program in Journalism because the entry costs are so much lower than the cost of science, technology, and engineering programs. 

That is not an excuse as to why the MAC would not let us in.  Hell, Kent doesn't even have an engineering program.  They have an archtectural program (no math involved here).  Their drawings still required stamps from the engineers that graduated from YSU before these structures can be built.  So the Kent State architect graduates work for the YSU graduates at the end of the day.  Go get me a cup O' cofee b****....If you get my drift.

[paladin]

The short answer from what I hear is not the type of courses as much as its the lower test scores and qualifications of incoming students with high remedial courses required for many of the incoming students.

[penguinpower]

Okay I am going to do some math here:

Average Mac team has a budget of $6.9 MM and YSU has a budget of $3.4 MM in football.  Football has to be one of the most expensive programs in any level.  If YSU wanted to maintain football in the MAC then we would need to make up a gap of $3.5 MM per year so how could we do it?

Well right now I am not sure how much we get and pay for games except the money games, but I ll do some Uneducated math based on revenue  and selective expense:

1. $400,000 per year on average from some team plus all ofhter games. 
2.  If we sell 12,000 tickets per game at $15 per ticket and have 7 home games that is $180,000 per game plus profits from concessions and parking. Let's say we clear $200,000 per game.  That is a total of $1.4 MM per year.
3.  Add in five other away games assuming we get $150,000 per game we would get an additional 750,000.

The current total based on my calculaiton is:  $2.55 MM of 3.4 MM total budget.  The gap is $850,000 per year.


If we joined the MAC:

1.  Lets say we could play 2 money games for $900,000 per game assuming they pay D1A programs more money (at leas tthat is my thought).  We would get $1.8 MM for thse games.
2.  Lets say the MAC pays $250,000 per game and the remaining 4 away games pay an additional $1 MM.
3.  Lets also assume that the attendence remains the same but ticket prices reach MAC levels of $30 per ticket.  Then with 12,000 fans each home game it is now worth:  $360,000 per game.  Which is $2.520 MM per year.
4. If you factor in lower away game costs on 4 of the away games you are probably going to save $30k per game conservativley. That is a savings of $120,000 per year.

The new total is now:  $5.44 MM per year.

The potential gap with the middle of the MAC based on my assumptions would be: $1.5 MM lower than the avergage MAC team budget in football. 

Perhaps this is the real gap.  But would YSU fans pay $30 per ticket.

[ysuindy]

I'm really not sure where the first part of your analysis is going, but the flaw I see is I think you are counting on YSU (as a MAC member) receving $250k per MAC road game, total of $1 million.

I don't think conference members pay each other for games, but if they do, YSU would have to make a similar payment when they host a game.  That would eliminate the $1 million benefit you have.

In addition to funding the gap in football revenues, you have to fund the gap in the rest of the athletic department revenues.  All together you need about $10 million more than you have now.  You have to fund the other sports as well.

[penguinpower]

I'm really not sure where the first part of your analysis is going, but the flaw I see is I think you are counting on YSU (as a MAC member) receving $250k per MAC road game, total of $1 million.

I don't think conference members pay each other for games, but if they do, YSU would have to make a similar payment when they host a game.  That would eliminate the $1 million benefit you have.

In addition to funding the gap in football revenues, you have to fund the gap in the rest of the athletic department revenues.  All together you need about $10 million more than you have now.  You have to fund the other sports as well.

There is some funny math in there. I only considered incoming revenue and saving associated with travel. I did not consider outgoing payments in either case. I was trying to understand order of magnitude. I would need to see the p&L to get real numbers put together.

[IAA Fan]

Nova and Power: I thought that was good topic for a thread (Liberal Arts Colleges and test scores), so I moved it under General BS.

[IAA Fan]

Some comments on what I am reading:

Yes the MAC issue comes up very regularly. Usually not during FB or the heart of basketball seasons though. Lets go team ...get our minds back in the game!!!

Academics vs. other schools in the MAC means nothing. If it does, it would be not in scores, but rather in program certifications. There have always been two reason that YSU has not been in the MAC:
1. Location
2. Facilities

We cannot change our location, but we have normalized relationships with Kent and Akron. Also, you can complain about him all you want, but Strollo has done a great job on facilities. Our non-football sports are performing at their highest-level since YSU's OVC or DII days. We are fully title-IX compliant. Believe me, that soccer field drew more eyes from FBS conferences than even WATTS. Let's face it ... the MAC has become all about soccer and baseball in recent years ...with basketball always being more revenue than football. Strollo has created a very appealing institution & given us options for internal and external (expansion) growth.

Also, why would you think the MAC would be more interested in YSU as an FCS football power? Do you think they enjoyed Marshall coming in and ruling the conference? We are far more more appealing as a stable middle-ranking FCS conference member. Why do you think were rejected the year they took Marshall? The MAC had no choice but to take Marshall, a former conference member. Marshall did not want any competition & we were certainly, at least, their equal. So it was Marshall that did not want us back then, and it was easy to get Akron and Kent to vote "no".

If the newspapers want to make demands on Strollo, forget investigating a move to the MAC. Besides if $$$ would come to us, we could probably do better & then we would be in the same boat we are now ...no rivals... only spending 3-times the money each year.  Instead, Strollo should work on engaging the MAC to allow an exception to their policy on not allowing away MAC vs. FCS games. If the MAC was smart, they would require participation in the sports that are hard to find opposition for (like golf or softball tournaments, hockey, etc) as a prerequisite to allowing a team to travel for an FCS opponent ...that is a win/win.

[paladin]

I don't see the MAC being interested in YSU at all.

YSU can't afford the MAC and they aren't interested even if YSU had the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

Give it up !

[penguinpower]

I don't see the MAC being interested in YSU at all.

YSU can't afford the MAC and they aren't interested even if YSU had the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

Give it up !

What about conference USA?  What if YSU was able to get some corporate sponsors like Boise gets?  We have all this oil and fracking coming to town .......

[paladin]

Have you looked at a map of CUSA ?  Travel much ?

[penguinpower]

Ecu and Marshall are both closer than the 2 closest Mvfc teams.  Isn't odu in there too? Or are they caa?  If odu is in there they are still closer than siu