Can We Finally Forget About the MAC?

[Wick250]

While searching for info about the final roster moves for the Indians, I found this on today's Plain Dealer website.  It is a slideshow that lists the most recent (2014-2015 academic year) athletic spending for Ohio's public universities.  As you can see, the gap between YSU and Ohio MAC schools is now enormous.  Here are the expense dollars listed in millions.

14.9  YSU
21.8  Bowling Green
26.3  Kent
27.1  Ohio University
29.9  Toledo
32.8  Miami
34.1  Akron

To round out the list, Cincinnati is at 51.7 while Ohio States stands at 154.

This data tells me that there are only two state schools that are responsible in spending on sports.  Ohio State whose professional sports machine generates much more revenue than its expenses.  And Youngstown State who understands that it is not big time and funds its sports accordingly.  The Ohio MAC schools are guilty of ripping off their students and Ohio taxpayers with their extravagant athletic spending, all in the hopeless quest of being considered "big time."  Don't you just love Akron, who spends 19 more million than we do as that school fires employees and drops academic programs.  All for a "big time" football program that played last year, according to the Beacon Journal, in front of an average of about 5,000 actual fans.

[Penguin Nation]

Each MAC school gets $670K/year from ESPN, and our travel expenses would reduce, our corporate sponsors would pay more, loges would increase in value, and I would expect our gate revenue to improve.....but there's still a large gap.

Several MAC schools, most notably Akron, are on an unsustainable path, and will have to make some serious decisions regarding athletics in the next few years.  I even read an article suggesting the entire MAC drop to FCS in FB, and the idea was receiving a favorable response.

Bo mentioned joining the MAC recently, and I am puzzled as to why. 

The MVFC will change too, and I don't know how long it'll make sense to stay there.  I think the next few years may be interesting.

[The YO Show]

While it would be fun for the fans, you are correct Wick. It does not appear to be feasible, from a financial standpoint, for the university at this time.

[YSUGO]

We surely are not making money or building a fan base with us being the step child of the MVFC.  Nobody cares.  If you asked a 100 football players or even Ohio football fans  what conference YSU is in I bet less than 20 would know.  Let's even say if you asked them who  won the FCS  even less than that.  But a kid in Ohio would know a MAC school and know that they are a true D1 school.  They would know they are on ESPN.  We need to quit hating the MAC.  That is old news.  My hope is we can get in as a football only school.  As for them dropping down if it does only the bottom programs might do that.  Toledo, Bowling Green, Northern Il.  And the one Directional Michigan as well as Ohio u would probably move on and BG as well.  Who knows what will happen.  But I as a fan am tired of our conference and when they added the Dakota's just wasn't a plus for us. More travel we don't recruit their area makes no sense for us. None.  I am sick of hearing how great our conference is.  Means nothing to me and most of the fan base.  Sagarin Ratings don't draw fans. 

[guinpen]

Nice post Nation.

Maybe we will never be in the Mac, but that does not mean that someday we may be in the league with some of the current schools or at least be able to play them 1 and 1. As money gets tighter for many schools, changes will be coming.

[ELPENGUIN]

Wick 250 or anyone else on the topic of Athletic budgets. I am wondering why do we not accept tax money for our Athletic budget.  It would help would it not.  I know it is so called "noble" to not accept tax money but should not the tax money allow us to field better competitive teams.....why not??

Legitimate responses are?

[IAA Fan]

That is good question EL, I was not aware that we do not accept tax revenues for sports. Being a bottom-feeder (in terms of tax dollar$), I can see us needing to place everything that we do receive into the general student fund though. I know that we have certain tax restrictions tied into the Affordable Tuition Advantage program.

[Wick250]

Elpenguin,

Several decades ago, athletic director Malmisur often stated that his department had to generate all the revenue to pay for scholarships in every sport.  At the time, that was a true statement, but it was also misleading.  Fans assumed that this meant that YSU athletics was completely self-funded, but that was never the case.  Even then we needed "institutional support" funds to cover such non-scholarship expenses as travel, equipment, insurance, facilities maintenance.  That institutional support came from tuition, fees, and the state subsidy from tax dollars.  So we always operated, in part, with tax money.  Athletic director Strollo, with his finance background, can verify this information and explain it much better than I can.  Notice that Strollo never repeats Malmisur's claim, because expenses have skyrocketed so much in recent years that we are even more heavily dependent upon institutional support, as is every state school in Ohio not named OSU.

[ELPENGUIN]

Still searching for an answer. Then as Wick 250 states athletic state tax money is being channeled into the general fund for funds to cover such non-scholarship expenses as travel, equipment, insurance, facilities maintenance.  Why can we not ask and expand our request to receive more state tax money like the other state schools apparently do to increase our YSU's athletic budget for salaries and scholarships  (it is our state tax money is it not).

[gbs20]

The Plain Dealer did a detailed series on general fund athletic subsidy by public institution this week. To your question, each institution gets state subsidy and also generates revenue by tuition and fees. The state subsidy is determined by formula based on enrollment, graduation, and retention rates. For most Ohio publics this represents between 20-25% of budget. How each institution allocates its money between academic and other needs is an institutional decision made by the BOT and administration. If the state were to give institutions more or less money they decide where that money goes or what is cut. The state doesnt give money for this purpose or that purpose, with the exception of capital funds which are allocated separately.

[go guins]

We surely are not making money or building a fan base with us being the step child of the MVFC.  Nobody cares.  If you asked a 100 football players or even Ohio football fans  what conference YSU is in I bet less than 20 would know.  Let's even say if you asked them who  won the FCS  even less than that.  But a kid in Ohio would know a MAC school and know that they are a true D1 school.  They would know they are on ESPN.  We need to quit hating the MAC.  That is old news.  My hope is we can get in as a football only school.  As for them dropping down if it does only the bottom programs might do that.  Toledo, Bowling Green, Northern Il.  And the one Directional Michigan as well as Ohio u would probably move on and BG as well.  Who knows what will happen.  But I as a fan am tired of our conference and when they added the Dakota's just wasn't a plus for us. More travel we don't recruit their area makes no sense for us. None.  I am sick of hearing how great our conference is.  Means nothing to me and most of the fan base.  Sagarin Ratings don't draw fans.

YSUGO, so you think being a stepchild to the MAC is better than being a stepchild to the MVFC?  I suggest you check with Akron and Kent before answering.  The secret is to win and that doesn't matter which conference.  ND has made a TON of money, played in a TON of bowls etc. as an independent.  Success is the answer, not a league over your head.

[YSUGO]

The league is not a good fit for us. What do we have in common as fans, in who or what we recruit little or no tv exposure.  Akron and Kent would be great rivalry games.  It would bring back fans and interest.  There is alumni from both schools in this area as well as other MAC schools.  Nobody in the media the fans and football recruits no anything about the MVFC.  Nobody.  Even a When the Bison came to town nobody cared.  I don't know what you guys don't get the 90's was almost 20 years ago .  A good recruit would be like are you serious I wasn't even born when that happened. They will pick Akron or Kent before us.  I get that we are in a tough league but sagarin doesn't buy tickets and fill the stands.  Being able to play schools that people can relate too is smart business.  It's time to get off this we hate the MAC crap.  Will it happen probably not because 6000 diehards can't afford another dollar to get us there but we got the MVFC .  Can't wait for the 53 fans that Indiana St brings. 

[Wick250]

YSUGO,

Please look at the figures at the top of this thread.  To match the LOWEST Ohio MAC expenses, we would have to raise our budget by about 7 million each year.  To attain status as a MIDDLE of the pack Ohio MAC school, we would have to raise our budget by 13 million each year.  That is impossible.  Surely you can see that.

Now in this era of fiscal austerity in the state government, if the legislators mandated a limit on the amount that state schools could spend on athletics (not counting OSU which relies on no state funds) then all those Ohio MAC schools would be forced to reduce spending to our level.  A FCS MAC conference would be great.  Unless that happens (and it won't) pushing membership in the MAC makes no sense.

[go guins]

Wick250,
Boy would a 1AA MAC be GREAT.  Unfortunately your comment (and it won't) is correct.  If you had a moment of complete honesty, Akron, Kent, Buffalo BGSU, and a bunch more would jump at the chance to be completive for a national championship annually while reducing budgets by millions, to 10's of millions at the same time.  What confuses me is this talk about YSU wanting to duplicate the failure of Kent and Akron.  Whatever, we aren’t going to the MAC even if they asked, which they are NOT going to do!

[Penguin Nation]

If in the MAC, YSU would again be able to play $$ games w/ the BIG for much more money than we are getting from Pitt.  This in addition to the the things I mentioned above would narrow the gap, maybe enough if we were FB only members?  The budget #s in the OP are from full MAC members.  Let's face it, in most non-FB sports we'd get demolished in the MAC.

Maybe we can transition the FB program to be a step closer to the MAC. 

--Replace a boring NEC game with a MAC game on the schedule..yes it'd be away, but Can't is paying >$300K to FCS programs, which is more revenue than we get from a home game.

--add FCOA schollies, the MAC has 'em, and this would level the recruiting playing field.  Also, several MVFC teams now have them.  Parlay the MAC game revenue to pay for it.

--start to again dominate FCS FB. It's hard to sell an upgrade to FBS when you are struggling in FCS.