YSU MEN'S BASKETBALL OFFICIALLY DEAD

[Dmorton]

You have to remember how young this team is, and Slocum is totally wasting it!  Two freshmen on the floor most of the time.  One Junior starting, an red shirt freshmen, and true sophomore.   I don't understand it every season Slocum craps the bed on the second half of the schedule.

[The YO Show]

IAA, I like you, prefer football over basketball. But, since YSU has a basketball team, I want to see them succeed as much as possible. I'm not saying you don't, but if I were given the choice, I would still make sure the MBB team got their funding so they could live up to their potential. Believe it or not, ROI for MBB teams in mid-majors can actually be quite nice if we can get to the tournament and make a run. Its more of setting your program up for the best possible success. There has to be a balance of course. I wouldn't want to dump alot of money into the basketball team if it hasn't been a proven success, but I don't see why we wouldn't want to try to change the course of things. Just my two cents

[IAA Fan]

IAA, I like you, prefer football over basketball. But, since YSU has a basketball team, I want to see them succeed as much as possible. I'm not saying you don't, but if I were given the choice, I would still make sure the MBB team got their funding so they could live up to their potential. Believe it or not, ROI for MBB teams in mid-majors can actually be quite nice if we can get to the tournament and make a run. Its more of setting your program up for the best possible success. There has to be a balance of course. I wouldn't want to dump alot of money into the basketball team if it hasn't been a proven success, but I don't see why we wouldn't want to try to change the course of things. Just my two cents

I understand, but that is not the reality of YSU. We are going to be a women's basketball school for some time to come. When that point comes where this is no longer the case, we will not be in the Horizon League. I just get tired of people actually thinking that their administration does not see things that blind man can see ...and they are serious. Strollo sees so, so, so, so, so much more than we do & why would any of us ever think otherwise?  People on this board think keeping Slocum is laughable, when the fact that Slocum, Strollo and to a lesser degree Tressel are quite aware of internal expectations. Slocum is probably the most talented HC in the league year after year, but has never had much of anything to work with.

So is the answer threatening the MVC to let us in & then we share the wealth of 3 post-season picks a year? We need another football trophy on our shelf before we can do that & more of a budget. Is it the MAC? (did anyone see Barne's salary for what is traditionally a mid-to-lower end program?). Then we need an increase in football budget as well. Is it staying a bottom-feeder in a conference and concentrating on the higher-priority sports? They are all questions and options that our administration deals with & I have yet to see anything to tell me that it is time to change. Maybe they feel the names Tressel and Pelini will do something. If it is, we have just a few years to act before they are both gone (or at least their names will be gone) & the time to act is now. If not, I like what we have in MBB and let's concentrate on other sports as we have been doing.

[The YO Show]

Valid points. I have wondered if the time to act is nigh regarding making a move to the MAC. As cool as I would think that would be, I think that it is ultimately not in the cards for us, and as you said, after the names are gone we will not be in a position to try to get there. We would do very well against MAC competition, at least thats my two cents.

Back to the original discussion points you mentioned. I am not attacking the administration when I say we should be attempting to put our best foot forward with any changes we make. I don't envy the administration and their task of juggling fan interest and expectations for a MBB program that has fallen on hard times with unreachable  expectations for the program. I do think that some positive changes could be taken though at this juncture though. My  opinion would be a head coaching change, but to be realistic, it would not have an immediate affect on the program. There is no short term solution here, more of a mid to long range one.

[Wick250]

Good coaches (Rosselli, Tressel, DiGregorio, Boldon, Gorby, Barnes) recruit very well, and they win.
Bad coaches recruit leftovers and projects, and they lose.

Bad coaches always used as their primary excuse the lack of a social life at the commuter school.  That poor excuse is now gone.  With the dormitories and apartment complexes, including two under construction, we have built an on-campus community that offers the intimate social life of a small college with the academic resources of a large university.  Frankly, it is a perfect balance. 

For those who believe that we cannot improve the basketball program, even with the current finances, please explain how the first three men that I listed above won, and won big, with half the resources of the modern school.

[guinpen]

IAA, I like you, prefer football over basketball. But, since YSU has a basketball team, I want to see them succeed as much as possible. I'm not saying you don't, but if I were given the choice, I would still make sure the MBB team got their funding so they could live up to their potential. Believe it or not, ROI for MBB teams in mid-majors can actually be quite nice if we can get to the tournament and make a run. Its more of setting your program up for the best possible success. There has to be a balance of course. I wouldn't want to dump alot of money into the basketball team if it hasn't been a proven success, but I don't see why we wouldn't want to try to change the course of things. Just my two cents

I understand, but that is not the reality of YSU. We are going to be a women's basketball school for some time to come. When that point comes where this is no longer the case, we will not be in the Horizon League. I just get tired of people actually thinking that their administration does not see things that blind man can see ...and they are serious. Strollo sees so, so, so, so, so much more than we do & why would any of us ever think otherwise?  People on this board think keeping Slocum is laughable, when the fact that Slocum, Strollo and to a lesser degree Tressel are quite aware of internal expectations. Slocum is probably the most talented HC in the league year after year, but has never had much of anything to work with.

So is the answer threatening the MVC to let us in & then we share the wealth of 3 post-season picks a year? We need another trophy on our shelf before we can do that & more of a budget. Is it the MAC? (did anyone see Barne's salary for what is traditionally a mid-to-lower end program?). Then we need an increase in football budget as well. Is it staying a bottom-feeder in a conference and concentrating on the higher-priority sports? They are all questions and options that our administration deals with & I have yet to see anything to tell me that it is time to change. Maybe they feel the names Tressel and Pelini will do something. If it is, we have just a few years to act before they are both gone (or at least their names will be gone) & the time to act is now. If not, I like what we have in MBB and let's concentrate on other sports as we have been doing.

Sorry 1AA but I just do not get it, I cannot comprehend why anyone in power would be content with the state of MBB. A good product would place a butt in every empty seat and the money would follow.

MVC is just more schools that our fan base does not relate to, What kind of trophy are you talking about before they would ALLOW us to threaten them to let us in and share their money.

You have to spend money to make money, I would rather drop MBB then take the position that we should be happy to end up not last.

[penguinpower]

He got his 700 wins.  He probably won't be here next year.  He is just an average coach and we would be better in other leagues.  Men's BB doesn't pay the bills. 

We need to make the move to FBS in football so that we can get bigger paydays with FBS teams (B1G teams) etc.  Our time with scheduling Pitt and WVU is running out and if we don't make the move we will slide into obscurity in all sports.  Think about it.....there is no money in FCS football and the fan base isn't there to fund the other sports.  I say we go FBS to get bigger paychecks and have more money to support better BB coaches etc.  Perhaps we can also get football and basketball in the same conference and get some natural rivals that will draw more fans that may also provide more money as a result of more people in the stands.  This may also help change the perception of YSU within the Youngstown community and help to draw more locals to enroll in the school for academic and athletic purposes.

It is the only option as I see it.  The stadium is going to require major capital investment in a few years.  How will this get paid for?  The new loges will only cover the higher maintenance costs of an old stadium that requires more TLC.  Here is the other thing to keep in mind,  they have added better lighting for TV and new scoreboard etc.  Things that will be needed to go FBS.  I think the writing is on the wall and if they had a little more money they would make an announcement now.  This is my opinion and I could be totally wrong.  However, consider the fact that the assets that we have require more maintenance than most schools.  The football assets are true FBS level (weight rooms, indoor facility, football field, locker rooms,  etc) and they cost more to maintain than many other assets at other universities.  How will we be able to properly keep them in great condition with the reduction of funds coming from FBS teams?  Would you  take that risk considering that the power 5 FBS teams are being penalized for strength of schedule in the new play-off system?  I wouldn't. 

[go guins]

I don't get the "move to FBS for more money" movement.  We can't compete in 1-A basketball, so we want to duplicate those failings in football too?  Look at Kent, Akron, etc.  They get maybe 1 (sometimes -0-) big pay games a year and are mired in mediocrity in a mid-major football conference.  They don’t “draw flies” because they aren’t completive and have not much prospect of ever getting competitive.  They lose more on their football program than we do ours, so that is what you wish for your team?  What we need is 1-AA for basketball NOT 1-A for football!  Just take a look at Akron and Kent.  Giving away thousands of tickets and fudging the numbers to get minimum attendance numbers.  Losing millions, losing seasons, bad publicity, things just a mess.  This is what you want?  This talk is crazy.   

[IAA Fan]

Good coaches (Rosselli, Tressel, DiGregorio, Boldon, Gorby, Barnes) recruit very well, and they win.
Bad coaches recruit leftovers and projects, and they lose.

Bad coaches always used as their primary excuse the lack of a social life at the commuter school.  That poor excuse is now gone.  With the dormitories and apartment complexes, including two under construction, we have built an on-campus community that offers the intimate social life of a small college with the academic resources of a large university.  Frankly, it is a perfect balance. 

For those who believe that we cannot improve the basketball program, even with the current finances, please explain how the first three men that I listed above won, and won big, with half the resources of the modern school.

-Rosselli: Had DII success ...we are way beyond that now.
-Tressel: Football. Had to move the program to independent status (with a simple schedule) to get into the post season...once you start winning life becomes easier. An option for MBB perhaps.
-DiGeggorio: WBB ...something we have always been good at. Besides, we cannot compare men to women.

In MBB, we have had 2-years of success in modern times. We are never going to be attractive to a conference as a MBB program. We can be attractive in women's sports, baseball and football. It is in our best interest to invest our resources there first. I am just being practical.

[penguinpower]

I don't get the "move to FBS for more money" movement.  We can't compete in 1-A basketball, so we want to duplicate those failings in football too?  Look at Kent, Akron, etc.  They get maybe 1 (sometimes -0-) big pay games a year and are mired in mediocrity in a mid-major football conference.  They don’t “draw flies” because they aren’t completive and have not much prospect of ever getting competitive.  They lose more on their football program than we do ours, so that is what you wish for your team?  What we need is 1-AA for basketball NOT 1-A for football!  Just take a look at Akron and Kent.  Giving away thousands of tickets and fudging the numbers to get minimum attendance numbers.  Losing millions, losing seasons, bad publicity, things just a mess.  This is what you want?  This talk is crazy.

How can you avoid it?  We have been collecting $400k to $600k paychecks for years and it is at high risk of going away.  If these were your finances how would you deal with it?  Would you take the risk of losing Pitt and WVU for a $100k payout?

[go guins]

So you think the football situation in Akron and Kent is healthier than YSU?  You want us to go down the same sorry path as Akron?  Sorry, but I STRONGLY disagree.  Somebody please get me an update on the financial status of YSU since the arrival of Mr. JT.  There is more than one way to make money in a university setting and winning football can be a help in ways outside of the gate receipts as well.  Attempting to go 1-A would be the single biggest mistake YSU every made.

[penguinpower]

So you think the football situation in Akron and Kent is healthier than YSU?  You want us to go down the same sorry path as Akron?  Sorry, but I STRONGLY disagree.  Somebody please get me an update on the financial status of YSU since the arrival of Mr. JT.  There is more than one way to make money in a university setting and winning football can be a help in ways outside of the gate receipts as well.  Attempting to go 1-A would be the single biggest mistake YSU every made.

I am not saying that this is a situation that I would prefer.  I am simply saying how do you avoid it?  One other thing you need to keep in mind.  Kent and Akron have ZERO tradition.  We do

[paladin]

I think you can have a decent men's basketball program here. But Wick posed a question --

Rosselli -- ran a D-II program and for that the Youngstown area has some talent. The problem comes when you play D-I BB and need to recruit elsewhere. Its then that you face the MAC which is far more popular with Ohio kids and are forced to recruit the leftovers elsewhere.

Tressel was a once in a lifetime combination of being a  good coach and being lucky. Some would also say cheat a little too. Great recruiter. But, he was as  good a FB coach as you will find in the country. Ohio St. now has one that is better.

Eddie D -- good coach with limited  coaching abilities  who coached in weak  leagues but had an area( Ytown Metro) that was pretty good for women's players. Strong players in a weak league racked up the wins.

McFarland is another example of the "local good old boy "club. Nothing special about him.  But the area nepotism rears its ugly head again.  Everyone thinks this area is the greatest ( it isn't) and the answer to all problems is to hire a local boy ( who promptly gets beat like a drum). Open it up. See what you can attract. Fund the program. Guys on the way up with head coaching success will be interested.

[Penguin Nation]

Until there is a significant conference realignment, perhaps one that combines some G5 with some FCS programs, I think moving out of the FCS would be cost prohibitive.  Last year there were calls in Akron from faculty to move FB to FCS, about the time they dropped their baseball program.  We aren't even offering FCOA yet, which all of the MAC and 4 MVFC teams are (and Liberty U).  This places us as a second class MVFC program, and we'd consider moving to the FBS?

My suggestion would be to replace a creampuff home game for a MAC away game, which would result in increased revenue generation, and then parlay those earnings (~$100k) into FCOA scholarships.  Collectively, this would increase fan interest, improve our recruiting position, and improve our SOS which would enhance our resume to the playoff selection committee. I'd suggest start by playing Can't, who'd we pummel on a bad day.

Here is a Jambar article about the Athletic Department budget:

http://www.thejambar.com/doing-more-with-less/

The article borders on propaganda, which surprises me as the Jambar usually is more objective and critical.  Regardless, the article claims that YSU is efficient in its use of Athletic Department resources, however completely ignores the lost revenue due to underperforming top revenue generating programs (FB, MBB), and scheduling of opponents that generate little appeal to the fans.  The article also makes the case for the benefit of athletics on the University as a whole, which i agree with.

[Wick250]

Nation,

You might want to take into account that the author of this article, Katie Montgomery, is a member of the soccer team.  (Or a Jambar columnist has the same name, which is most unlikely.)