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YSU Penguin Athletics => YSU Penguin Athletics => Topic started by: YSUFANSINCE1990 on September 08, 2014, 09:31:43 AM
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There seems to be a lot of conversation about Saturday's lack of attendance Saturday, I heard Dan Rivers on WKBN talking about it this morning. First, we haven't made the playoffs and won, thats the biggest reason.
But I think the other problem is the weak non-conference schedule. I have no issue with playing Duquesne, it balances out playing an FBS school. But we should not be playing Butler and St Francis, it does nothing for us. Butler struggled to beat D-3 Wittenberg, fans are too smart to buy into coming to these games. I see where Southern Illinois beat Eastern Illinois Saturday, and North Dakota State played at a solid Weber State. Why don't we schedule home and home with the likes of Delaware, Villanova, James Madison and so on.
Our home schedule this year is so bad, especially since North Dakota State and South Dakota State are on the road. I know some get tired of hearing about the Tressel era, but he would play one D-2, then schedule some good teams. I remember playing Stephen F Austin home and away, Towson State home and away as well.
My sense is YSU may be afraid to lose, but going to Missouri State at 3-1, will we really know anything about this team?
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I'm with you I'd rather see a good game. I've heard from a couple people the AD schedules in this way to get 3 "gimme" D1 wins, thinking there's a magic number of those needed to get a playoff berth.
Actual attendance be damned, the big-money tickets are already sold for the most part. Why would they care about walk-ups they practically give those away with BOGO's and Giant Eagle days lol
Look how much advertising is around the stadium and in the program. Thats the focus.
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People complained when we played a D2 game, that was why we did not make the playoffs, so they said. So we scheduled 1-AA schools albeit not upper tier, and guess what, people still complain about the schedule. Seems people just like to complain. Say what you want but I believe that Butler made the playoffs last year and we did not. The Dukes gave 1A Buffalo all they could handle.
Maybe I am preaching to the choir on this board but I do not go to YSU games to see Butler, WIU SIU or anyone else on the schedule. I GO TO WATCH THE PENGUINS! I do not know if people out there are lazy, spoiled or what, but this lack of attendance is ridicules. Those players bust their butts and to come out and see that many fans in the stands is sad very sad.
Wolf will not be here forever, do you really think we will attract a top notch coach when they look at butts in the seats. Same thing with the top notch players.
spend less time looking for excuses and get to the games people.
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If you have been around long enough, you remember that YSU was a basketball school thirty years ago. Unless there was real bad weather, we drew around 3,000 on weekdays and 5,000 on weekends. YSU basketball was an important community event. What happened? We starting to stink and stink and stink some more. Whole generations lost interest. Basketball is now so irrelevant that even the two center sections in the gym, reserved for high paying Penguin club members, are often over half empty. If we draw over 2,000 to a game several times a year, some people get excited.
I have been afraid that the same process would happen to football, and it has. A decade and a half of losing and bad football has created massive indifference among casual fans. The failures of Heacock and Wofford over fourteen years have cultivated that apathy. That is compounded by every major power being on tv each week. Of course those who read and post here are not impacted by any of this, but we are too few to fill up that stadium. Would an attractive home schedule help? I really don't know, but playing three junk games will not poke a hole in the climate of apathy that now surrounds this program. (One such game is fine to balance off the money game.)
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Wick, I have been going to both BB and FB for 40 or so years now and you may be right.
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Wickman I do think you have hit it. Scheduling opponents who may be of equal footing with us will never happen. What team would give up a home game to play here. Surely not a MAC school or a Conference USA school. Maybe a 3 or 4 for 1 but not a 1 for 1. Move YSU up is the answer except where is the money going to come from? Maybe we need some oil/gas money to start cultivating such a move.
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When I think of schools on equal footing as YSU, I DO NOT think of schools from the MAC or CUSA in football. Last I checked, these are FBS Conferences, and YSU is in FCS. So, it is correct that schools from the MAC and CUSA will not agree to home-home with YSU. But, there are plenty of FCS schools that would agree to home-home. Delaware, Villanova, JMU, EKU, Towson, Cal-Poly, Southern Utah, Liberty, Maine, Wofford. These are schools I can recall YSU having played home-home against back when YSU was much better in football than they are at the current time. YSU was also able to schedule home-home with Georgia Southern, FAU, and Buffalo before they moved up to FBS, along with Northeastern before they dropped football.
I understand the desire to have as many home games as possible. I understand the importance of the revenue generated by the loges. But, isn't it better to have only 5 or 6 regular season games each year along with at least 1 home playoff game, than having 6 or 7 home games and no playoff games, home or away?
Seems to me, the issue is YSU wanting 6-7 home games every year, and also wanting EASY games due to now playing a $$$$$$$ game. The problem is, this model is not working as far as tickets distributed(official attendance), actual attendance, or making the playoffs. Of the 11 playoff seasons, only 3 were years that YSU had 3 losses. In 87, they finished 8-3, but won the OVC auto bid, and there were NO D2 teams on the schedule..... In 89, YSU was 8-3 with 2 wins over D2 teams. But, they also beat Akron at home, CMU on the road and played at EMU. And, they went 7-1 in the final 8 games of the season, including winning the final 3 games in a row.
In 91, YSU was 8-3. Not really sure they deserved to make the playoffs, as they played 2 D2 teams, and did not beat any 1A/FBS schools. But, they did end the season on a 4 game winning streak, with that streak starting at defending champion Georgia Southern....The 92 team finished 8-2-1, with 1 game against a D2 opponent. The tie was at Akron(1A/FBS). They won at OU(1A/FBS).
90,93,94,97,99,00,06 YSU won at least 9 games in the regular season.
I do not see anything wrong with ONE game against a team from the Pioneer or Northeast. The home-home schedules could be arranged such that each team hosts the other in a season when 12 games are allowed. In an 11 game season, it's hard for me to believe YSU would not be able to schedule a team like FAMU, Liberty, Morgan State, Delaware State. Other schools that come to mind are Hampton, Howard and Austin Peay, All teams YSU has played in the past, and which a playoff caliber YSU team ought to be able to beat at home.
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I would never defend this schedule but the Duquesne game makes sense for both schools. I think we can all agree that Duquesne is making an effort to improve and grow their program not sure the same can be said for the next two opponents. However, I think our AD is missing an opportunity by not negotiating a game with the Dukes in basketball because it too makes sense. I realize it doesnt work this way but its worth a try. Regardless of the sport, WE/THEY need all the help we can get with scheduling.......
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The Duquesne game does make sense for both schools. Very easy travel. A D1 win for us if we take care of business.
We increase our exposure in the Pittsburgh area, even if nothing more than a box score in the local papers.
They increase their exposure here, and their conferences SOS. A very good barometer for them as to how they will do in conference. Very well this year it would seem.
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Agreed on Duquesne and Robert Morris. I would even travel for football if it helps with MBB. Heck less than an hours drive & we can tailgate.
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I think fan interest would be renewed only by winning and deep playoff runs.
Short of that, I think renewing the Akron and Kent rivalries would help. I would get them on the schedule even if they would only agree to away games (away meaning a 45 minute drive). These are winnable games that would impress the selection committee. Travel costs would be modest. Why not let them pay us to beat em? No one cares about St Francis and Butler, but Akron.....absolutely.
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I think fan interest would be renewed only by winning and deep playoff runs.
Short of that, I think renewing the Akron and Kent rivalries would help. I would get them on the schedule even if they would only agree to away games (away meaning a 45 minute drive). These are winnable games that would impress the selection committee. Travel costs would be modest. Why not let them pay us to beat em? No one cares about St Francis and Butler, but Akron.....absolutely.
Agreed!
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Looks like this is a hot topic in Youngstown. Note these tweets from this evening:
@DanaBalash21: @21WFMJSports YSU Athletic director Ron Strollo says scheduling "three" lesser football opponents is a "financial necessity" decision.
@JoeScalzo1: I've been critical of YSU's non-conference football schedule. You can read YSU's side of the story in tomorrow's paper.
@21WFMJSports: YSU football schedule comes under scrutiny http://t.co/dxkOdeHzyg
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good, we get buried in B.S. by the AD.
Same old, same old
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The article above says: "Strollo says each home game brings in around $200,000 thousand and those additional funds are needed to the athletic department."
An article I found that's a few years old:
"Kent State will then pay Louisiana-Lafayette $150,000 and South Alabama $250,000 for the home games on September 10 and September 24, respectively."
http://www.kentwired.com/sports/article_4b77dc60-0a08-5fb7-a198-f6eb4570e94d.html
Seems like it would at least be revenue neutral (for the University) to play at Akron or Kent. I would replace one of the three (or one of the two in an 11 game season) cupcake games with a local MAC school.
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Seems to me that YSU would make more than $200,000 from playing a 2nd "money game" in a season where 12 games are allowed. Playing 2 such games would make finishing 9-3 or better more difficult, but a YSU team at 8-4/6-2 with 2 of the losses against FBS teams might be more attractive to the playoff committee than a YSU team which finishes 8-4/5-3, with 3 of the wins over schools from the NEC and Pioneer.
At 6-2 in the MVFC, I believe YSU could make the playoffs now that the field has expanded to 24 teams. Another thing to consider, is if YSU makes the playoffs, it could actually cost more money than if not making the playoffs. So, in a season allowing 12 games, play 3 $$$$ games. This would generate a huge amount of money. YSU could still make the playoffs by winning the MFVC. Playing these "lesser" opponents has net led to YSU making the playoffs. So, play 2 or 3 "money games" and bring in considerably more than $200,000 per game. YSU has made the playoffs 1 time(2006) in the 19 years playing at the FCS level with a coach not named Tressel. Maybe it is time to turn the focus away from making the playoffs, and instead just use football to bring in as much revenue as possible? And, once every 8-10 years, YSU might get lucky, win the MFVC and make the playoffs, such as happened in 2006.
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Seems to me that YSU would make more than $200,000 from playing a 2nd "money game" in a season where 12 games are allowed. Playing 2 such games would make finishing 9-3 or better more difficult, but a YSU team at 8-4/6-2 with 2 of the losses against FBS teams might be more attractive to the playoff committee than a YSU team which finishes 8-4/5-3, with 3 of the wins over schools from the NEC and Pioneer.
At 6-2 in the MVFC, I believe YSU could make the playoffs now that the field has expanded to 24 teams. Another thing to consider, is if YSU makes the playoffs, it could actually cost more money than if not making the playoffs. So, in a season allowing 12 games, play 3 $$$$ games. This would generate a huge amount of money. YSU could still make the playoffs by winning the MFVC. Playing these "lesser" opponents has net led to YSU making the playoffs. So, play 2 or 3 "money games" and bring in considerably more than $200,000 per game. YSU has made the playoffs 1 time in the 20 years playing at FCE level with a coach not named Tressel. Maybe it is time to turn the focus away from making the playoffs, and instead just use football to bring in as much revenue as possible. And, once every 8-10 years, YSU might get lucky, win the MFVC and make the playoffs, such as happened in 2006.
Bingo, I'm all for another money game!
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Me too. Three money games would be fantastic. It would also help recruiting.
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I have a question and a few comments in regards to the Athletic Department. I know generating revenue is a challenge, and that football helps pay the bills for the enitre department. My question is in regards to the budget provided the Athletic Department.
I know that ALL departments on campus were asked to make cuts in order to help offset the loss of State Funding, and to help ensure YSU operates without a deficit, or with a small a deficit as possible. Does anyone know if the Athletic Dept was asked to make cuts to non coaching staff?
Seems to me, the Athletic Department could eliminate 2,3,4 positions, those of us on the outside not notice the difference, and in doing so save well over $200,000 when salary and benefits are combined. Yes, this would mean a few people losing their jobs, which would be difficult for those people. It would also mean those who remain would likely put in more hours, and be given additional responsibilities. But, this is exactly what is being asked of EVERY department on campus. Do more with less. And, if that is being asked of the academic departments, then I see no reason for it to not be DEMANDED of the Athletic Department.
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Seems to me that YSU would make more than $200,000 from playing a 2nd "money game" in a season where 12 games are allowed. Playing 2 such games would make finishing 9-3 or better more difficult, but a YSU team at 8-4/6-2 with 2 of the losses against FBS teams might be more attractive to the playoff committee than a YSU team which finishes 8-4/5-3, with 3 of the wins over schools from the NEC and Pioneer.
I would not agree here. The NCAA has no special love (or hatred) for the MVFC or YSU. They need to keep teams like those in the NEC or PFL relevant, which is why they offered them a play-ofrf bid and encourage us (full-scholarship schools) to play them. I would further state that they take that into consideration when selecting teams to the post-season.
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Here is a list of the FCS teams playing 2 FBS opponents this season. Nicholls State plays 3 FBS teams. Thought it might be of interest to some of you:
*Indiana State(MVFC) - Lost 28-10 at Indiana in week 1...plays at Ball State(MAC) this week
*UNI(MVFC) - Lost 31-23 at Iowa(BIG) in Week 1 .... Play at Hawai'i(Mt West) this Saturday
*WIU(MVFC) - Lost 37-3 at Wisconsin(BIG) in Week 2 ... Play at Northwestern(BIG) on Sept 20th
*Idaho State(Big Sky) - Lost 56-14 to Utah(PAC 12) in week 1 and 40-20 at Utah State(Mt. West) in Week 2
*Portland State(Big Sky) - Lost 29-14 at Oregon St(PAC 12) in week 1 ... plays at Washington State(PAC 12) this week
*UC Davis(Big Sky)- Lost 45-0 at Stanford(PAC 12) in week 1... plays at Colorado St. (Mt West) this week
*Southern Utah(Big Sky) - Lost 28-19 at Nevada(Mt. West) in Week 1.... play at Fresno State(Mt West) Sept 20th
*Charleston Southern(Big South) - Oct 11 at Vanderbilt(SEC)... Nov 22 at Georgia)
*Liberty(Big South) - lost 56-29 at UNC(AAC)... plays at App State(Sun Belt) on Oct 11th
*Howard(MEAC) - Lost 41-0 at Akron(MAC) in Week 1 .... Lost 38-25 at Rutgers(BIG) in week 2
*Savannah St(MEAC) - Lost 83-9 at Ga Southern(Sun Belt)... Play at BYU(Independent) on Nov 22nd
*Bethune Cookman(MEAC) - Lost 14-12 at FIU(C-USA) in Week 1 ... at UCF(AAC) on Sept 20th
*Murray State(OVC) - Lost 66-21 at L'ville(ACC) in Week 2.... Play at WMU(MAC) on Sept 20th
*EKU(OVC) - Beat Miami,OH(MAC) 17-10 in Week 2 ... Play at Florida on Nov 22nd
*EIU(OVC) - Lost 42-20 at Minnesota(BIG) in Week 1.... Play at OHIO(MAC) on Sept 27th
*VMI(Southern) - Lost 48-7 at BG(MAC) in Week 2 ... Play at Navy(Independent) on Oct 11
*W. Carolina(Southern) - Lost 36-31 at USF(AAC) in Week 1 .... Plays at Alabama(SEC) on Nov 22nd
*Samford(Southern) - Lost 48-14 at TCU(Big 12) in Week 1 ... Plays at Auburn(SEC) on Nov 22nd
*Chattanooga(Southern) - Lost 20-16 at CMU in Week 1 .... Plays at Tennessee(SEC) on Oct 11
*Northwestern St(Southland) - Lost 70-6 at Baylor(Big 12) in Week 2..... Plays at La Tech(C-USA) on Sept 20th
*Abilene Christian(Southland) - Lost 38-37 at Ga State(Sun Belt)... Play at Troy(Sun Belt) this week
*Nicholls St(Southland) - Lost 44-16 at Air Force(Mt West) in Week 1 .... Lost 73-6 at Arkansas(SEC) in Week 2 and plays at North Texas(C-USA) on Sept 20th. The other OOC game is at home against a Non D1 team
I noticed a few of these teams play 2 NON D1 teams at home, something I do not understand?
Murray State (2 non D1 home games)
Western Carolina (2 non D1 home games)
Samford (2 non D1 home games)
UC-Davis plays only 11 games. The 3rd OOC game is a Non D1 team
Charleston Southern plays 2 Non D1 games
Multiple schools play 1-2 of the other OOC games against teams in Pioneer or NEC, or 1 Non D1 team with the remaining OOC games
A few others play the remaining 2 OOC games against FCS teams from full scholarship conferences:
*Southern Utah played at SE Louisiana(Southland) and this week plays SDSU(MVFC).
*Northwestern State played Missouri State(MVFC) in Week 1, and plays at Southern(SWAC) this week
*UNI plays Northern Colorado(Big Sky) and Tenn Tech(OVC) at home for their 2 other OOC games
*EIU played and lost to SIU, and the other OOC game is at Illinois State
*Chattanooga - Lost to Jacksonville St(OVC) and plays at Austin Peay(OVC) this week
*Indiana State beat Tenn Tech at home last week, and plays Liberty(Big South) on Sept 27th
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Come playoff time it will be interesting to see how these teams that lose two FBS games stand in the new power rankings that the committee started using last year.
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Talk, great research. I understand guarantee is anywhere from $ 50,00 to $100,000 per game. Wow, is that state/sudent fee money subsidizing them? If so our guarantee of $10,000 or so is way out of line.
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I'd like to review Talks post again after the selections...see how much it played into things.
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So the article in the Vindy, Strollo explains that Playing these 3 home lower level games brings 200k per game. The cost of travel to a FCS non league game would be 100k. So in a nutshell for each of these three games we would drop and play away we lose 300k, money the ad dept cannot afford to lose.
So our options are simple, keep doing what we are doing and have people complain.
Have the complainers cough up 300k.
Play 2 fbs games and give up a home game every year.
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I make no claim to know how to run an athletic department and think that Strollo has yielded good results with little, but here are the numbers for those who need them to continue this thread: The FY 2010 athletic budget for YSU was $11 million. The proposed FY 2015 budget is $14 million. There's a proposed 3.6% increase for FY 2015, which amounts to a single-year increase of $491K. You do the math.
It only takes a few minutes to look up the numbers. Here's a link: http://web.ysu.edu/gen/ysu/Budget_Planning_m753.html
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Here is my take on the comments made by the AD. He is a highly intelligent person. He spent his first 4+ years of working in the Athletic Department under the tutelage of a master of BS, that being one James Tressel. I admire Tress, and am glad he is back at YSU as President. One of the things I admire about him is the way he mastered the art of BS. And, when he was AD/Head Football Coach at YSU, this served him well, since the local media never seemed interested in investigative journalism. So, if Tressel said something, that was the final word. End of story. Why would he ever say something that was not true? :o Unfortunately for Tress, when he took the job at TOSU, he faced the scrutiny of a very hawkish Columbus media, plus an extremely hawkish National Media.
I'd like to issue a challenge to the local media, with this including ALL the people who get media passes to games and press conferences, not just the Vindy, Tribune and TV Stations. There is something called the Freedom of Information Act. Use this to find the ACTUAL FACTS on how much YSU made off the 3 OOC home games last season, both Net and Gross. Then, find out how much YSU has made off the "money games", Net and Gross.
Also, due to the Freedom of Information Act, the financial data for other PUBLIC UNIVERSITIES is accessible. So, contact the schools and use other media contacts to find out how much said schools make from playing 2 FBS opponents. Again, net and gross.
Also, find out how big a traveling party YSU takes to the FBS games. Do they go by bus or plane? If they go by plane, what is the difference in cost between air and charter bus. Check the travel costs for ALL away games. The only games where traveling by bus can be deemed a necessity is when playing the Dakota Schools. The other teams in MVFC can be done by bus. Yes, it would be a long ride. But, from what I understand, several of thee schools require a 1-2 hour bus ride to get to after the plane lands at the airport into which the team flies. Also, the University and Athletic Department are at a point where ALL excessive costs need to be curtailed, and to be honest, I think the football program has lost their flying privileges to road games unless it is more cost efficient than going by bus. Even if going by bus only saves $5,000 - $10,000 per game, that would be $10,000 - $20,000 for this years 2 road games not in the Dakotas. Add in the Illinois game, and you have $15,000-$20,000. That is not chump change for a University and Athletic Department that needs to save every penny possible.
I understand budgets have been cut at the Vindy, Trib and local tv and radio stations. So, this can be a collaborative effort among the local media. And, why not use The News Outlet http://www.thenewsoutlet.org/
to help with the data collection? They do some really nice stories, and it would give students from YSU, Akron and Cuyahoga CC a chance to do investigative journalism.
For the professionals in the local media, this could be an opportunity to investigate the goings-on of the entire athletic department for neglect and wasteful spending. And, once done investigating the Athletic Department, then move on to the other departments on campus. The AD is now on record as saying YSU faces financial challenges other schools in the MVFC do not face. And, I believe that to be the case. I also seem to recall the number of people in administrative positions in the department being defended in the past by using the excuse the positions are justified to keep pace with other schools in the MFVC and HL. Seems to me that is wanting to have it both ways. The proverbial, having one's cake and eating it too ???
Why are people in the local media, and so many people in general willing to take the word of the AD? How do we know the $200,000 is not a figure he pulled out of thin air? I mean, $200,000 is a very exact dollar amount, and I have a hard time believing YSU nets $200,000 from every home game, irregardless to the number of people that actually attend the games. I understand loges are sold for an entire season. I understand tickets sold for games mean guaranteed revenue whether people with tickets attend the game or not. But, less people in attendance means less people paying to park. It means less people to buy items at the concession stands. Less people to buy programs and souvenir items. I'm not accusing the AD of a bold face lie. Rather, I'm saying it is highly possible he used a best case scenario to arrive at the $200,000 figure. Also highly likely he rounded up. So, the $200,000 might actually be $175,000.
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Right on Guinpen. No one considers that those signs cost the advertiser by the number of home games. No one considers how an ad in the program costs the advertiser per-game. Season ticket prices (which are most of our sales) cost more with more home games. Loge prices go up with 1 more home game. Tell the MAC to shove-it. Home and home only, with a requirement that the 1st-game be at Stambaugh ...so they cannot back out. Maybe 3 crap games is bit much, but we should expect to play two of these ...RMU and Duquesne sound good to me.
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Just a few things. Strollo is definitely being fast and loose in his discussions about finances with the media, but he is under no obligation whatsoever to even respond to their inquiries. I suspect few university athletic directors would be as forthcoming as Strollo was, even if he rounded the figures. Of course I almost choked when he said in the Scalzo article that we made only 30-35K extra from the UNI game two years ago. Even my primitive math skills can compute the sum from 7,000 more fans buying tickets for at least 12 bucks.
Institutions hate when media utilize the Freedom of Information Act. To maintain a civil working relationship, media companies usually invoke that privilege only when scandal or criminal activity is suspected. Strollo might be misleading the media with his figures but nobody believes that he is "cooking the books."
State universities in Illinois and particularly Iowa are in as much financial distress as those in Ohio. UNI has dropped sports and plays two money games because they have to....not because they want to. So challenging times for YSU, yes. Challenges not shared by some other MVFC members, no.
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SpiderLegs, thank you for the link. And, I agree with you that Ron Strollo does a good job as AD. Also, let me be perfectly clear. I am NOT accusing Ron Strollo of "cooking the books". Like Wick250, I believe he is being loose with the numbers he is providing the public. And, that is his right as AD. It is up to the media to dig deeper and find out the actual numbers.
Under Strollo, things have been pretty good with all sports but football and basketball(men and women), which are the 2 most followed sports. For a "football school", 1 trip to the FCS playoffs in 13 seasons is UNACCEPTABLE. Especially when the program had made the playoffs 9 times in the previous 12 seasons, with 4 NC's and 2 NC runner's up. Avg attendance for football games continues to dwindle and each year, more and more people go from the frustrated stage to the "I don't care anymore" stage.
The same is true with mens basketball, and with womens basketball. Although, the womens program seems to have turned the corner to become a top tier HL program. The same cannot be said for the mens program, which has never finished higher than 5th in the HL since joining the league in 01-02. Well, some people will argue YSU finished 4th in the 06-07 season, when in a 3 way tie at 7-9 with GB and UIC. But, YSU shows up as 5th in the standings, and was the #5 seed in the HL Tournament. The only other season YSU finished as high as 5th was in 2012-13, when they tied for 5th at 7-9, and were the #6 seed in the tournament. YSU has a record of 4-13 in the HL Tournament.
The other sports are very important. Unfortunately, it is football and basketball that garner the most attention. As a person who played a minor or "Olympic Sport", I think this stinks. I also realize the football and basketball are the only 2 sports with the potential to create revenue. Not just at YSU, but at the vast majority of Universities and Colleges with athletics.
1AA Fan, why on earth would a MAC school play at YSU? They are not having any problems finding other FCS teams to play. Plus they can play 1 or even 2 "money games" against the big boys. In basketball sure, but not football. As for playing Duquesne and RMU in football, the Duquesne game is fine. And, with Duquesne seems intent on building as good a program as possible when offering less than the maximum allowable scholarships. Same is true of RMU . Just do not wine and complain about how the selection committee is anti-YSU and anti-MVFC when YSU goes 8-4/5-3 or 7-4/5-3 and misses out on the playoffs.
This is a comment in general. It will be interesting to see how things play out come playoff time. Personally, I believe UNI at 8-4/6-2 would get into the FCS playoffs. Indiana State at 8-4/6-2 will be in the playoffs. Not so sure if 7-5/5-3. YSU at 9-3/6-2 will be in the playoffs. Not so sure if 8-4/5-3.
EKU has a good chance of making the playoffs as they won their first FBS game. At 9-3, EKU will make the playoffs. If 8-4, it will be dicey, but the win over Miami(OH) ought to help. EIU plays at OU, which is a winnable game. Beating Illinois State will also help if EIU loses to OU, and is one of the teams at 8-4.
Murray State likely needs to win the OVC, as they play 2 Non D1 teams
Charleston Southern gets into the playoffs if the win the Big South. Same is true for Liberty.
Some of these schools will not have winning records, let alone get close to making the playoffs. And, for EVERY school on the list, winning their conference means an auto bid.
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Turning out to be a nice thread, some good post on all sides.
1AA, I agree about the mac schools and a 1 on 1. And yes I would not trust them so either they play here first, which I doubt would ever happen, or have an ironclad contract with a really high buyout clause.
Most of the mac would not be interested in playing us but our fans would love to play some "local" schools. kent and akron would have their largest crowd of the year if they played us, but if they would lose to us it would sure hurt their recruiting.
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I just don't see how Akron or Kent benefit from playing us. Think about it... We would be competitive the whole game, and could definitely beat them.... The schools are so close apart, that a W for YSU would benefit recruiting greatly. There is no incentive for those schools to play us.
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Don't worry about the playoffs this year YSU is not going to have enough wins, 7 will not get it done. Worse yet, 6-6,
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I just don't see how Akron or Kent benefit from playing us. Think about it... We would be competitive the whole game, and could definitely beat them.... The schools are so close apart, that a W for YSU would benefit recruiting greatly. There is no incentive for those schools to play us.
Go to an Akron and/or Kent game and see the number of butts in the seats. Akron builds a brand new stadium and HS games at Infocision get more fans than them.
We could easily bring 8-10k to one of these games, if not more, during a solid season.
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Given the comments made by the AD this week, it does not appear YSU will be scheduling a 2nd FBS game anytime in the near future. But, this is an interesting discussion, has been a good thread, and we all know people in the Athletic Department at YSU(not the AD, but others) read this site. As do members of the media. So, who knows what might happen going forward with the scheduling. To me, that alone is reason to keep this thread going.
As far as games against teams in the MAC, I believe KENT would be willing to play YSU at Kent. Not so sure about Akron? However, with Tressel as President at YSU after spending a few years at YSU, the friction that seemed to arise in the 90's might well be able to repaired.
I do not buy the whole MAC schools being afraid of playing YSU theory. FCS schools rarely beat FBS schools. The same way YSU has never lost to a D2 school since moving to 1AA/FCS. Another thing to consider is MAC schools appear to pay in the $150,000-$250,000 range from what I have been able to find out. Since there are several schools close enough for YSU to go by bus, travel costs would be lessened. But, I do not think a game against a MAC team makes sense unless receiving a guarantee of at least $250,000. Also, I do not think 8,000-10,000 YSU fans would attend a game at KENT or Akron. I attended all but 2 of the YSU-Akron/KENT road games from 87-2003. I missed games at Akron in 92 and 95. Not sure there were ever 10,000 YSU fans at any of those games. Might have been 5,000 - 7,000 for a few of the games at KENT(95, 00 and 03), but not 10,000. And, the games at Akron, it's doubtful there were much more than 10,000 people in the stadium for any of those games.
There is a webpage dedicated to football schedules for FBS schools. They have schedules for the NFL too, but the site is primarily for FBS schedules. Both Akron and Kent already have FCS opponents scheduled for 2015. Akron is playing Savannah State, and Kent is playing Coastal Carolina. Akron has VMI on their 2016 schedule. To date, Kent does not have an FCS opponent scheduled for 2016.
http://www.fbschedules.com/
YSU is 20-27-1 all time against FBS schools. 7 of those wins came against Akron(7-1-1), HUGE reason Akron ended the series. Sadly, Akron football has never recovered from forcing Jim Dennison out after the 85 season in order to hire Gerry Faust. The only other MAC team YSU has a winning record against is OU(2-0). They won at YSU in 90, and at OU in 92. Both of those OU teams were terrible, especially the 1990 team.
YSU records against current MAC teams other than Akron:
KENT 4-4 (2-0 at home, 2-4 at KENT)
EMU 2-5
WMU 1-1
CMU 1-1
BG 1-1
OU: 2-0
TOTAL: 11-12
That makes YSU 13-26 against FBS teams other than Akron and 2-14 against non MAC schools.
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l I do not think 8,000-10,000 YSU fans would attend a game at KENT or Akron.
Especially since we hardly get half of that at the home games. <sigh> Whatever happened to the days of Phantom Fireworks putting on a show afterwards (almost guarantees rain) and some of the other game day promotions? I thought that helped get the students and locals to attend.
Should be good football weather tomorrow. Packing now - GO GUINS
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Good point on the $250k Talk ...I agree and would not support a game at Akron or Kent without a return. A home game against either (especially Akron) used to be a guaranteed sellout (all be it in a 16k stadium). Also we would easily put as many fans in their stadiums as their own fans ...maybe more ...it is hard to say how much this would be today.
My guess would be the initial game at Akron would be a huge affair, with Infocision Stadium being packed and dominated by Red & White. A game at Kent will always bring many YSU fans because of proximity.
Here is the way it is though: with local/regional coverage of YSU's success against the MAC, combined with the national media mockery of the MAC ...a move to the conference by YSU no longer makes sense. MAC membership has become a topic of conversation during recent years because we have had no post-season. (and the conversation needs to be had, as if we are going to play games with only a regular-season, why not play teams fans know?) However, the first time a Penguin player places a national championship trophy over his head once again ...the MAC would be lucky to qualify as an afterthought in the minds of the Guin faithful. Additionally, YSU fans are fickled. Once they get a move to the MAC, we will wonder why a larger conference is not courting us.
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YSU does not have the financial resources to join the MAC. That was the #1 thing that kept them from being admitted to the conference back in 1995. Despite what many want to believe, it was NOT Akron and KENT fearing YSU. It was YSU not having an athletic budget that meant the minimum required by the MAC, and then President, Les Cochran not being willing to commit to such a budget. Joining the MAC would be nice since the schools are in the same geographic area as YSU. There are alot of natural rivalries. But, YSU just does not have the money.
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YSU does not have the financial resources to join the MAC. That was the #1 thing that kept them from being admitted to the conference back in 1995. Despite what many want to believe, it was NOT Akron and KENT fearing YSU. It was YSU not having an athletic budget that meant the minimum required by the MAC, and then President, Les Cochran not being willing to commit to such a budget. Joining the MAC would be nice since the schools are in the same geographic area as YSU. There are alot of natural rivalries. But, YSU just does not have the money.
Yep, that ship has sailed. If YSU can't afford to lose money from a weenie "home game" during the season, they can't afford to join the MAC.
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Agreed Let's talk...all I am doing is adding a non-financial reason why the MAC makes no sense. Besides just how much life do you think the conference has left in it? It is on a respirator now.
but don't kid yourself on the first MAC move. The Athletic Department at YSU was asked almost annually if they would be willing to join the MAC ...IF NEEDED. I was in those meetings for over 10-years when the AC took the votes to be ready if they were indeed asked ...The vote to join was ALWAYS a unanimous yes ...with the exception of the two academics ...which knew the consequences of a "no" vote so they did not show up for the vote.
I thought it was 93 or 94, but yes there was one year where they actually offered and signed an agreement to admit YSU. The contract had a deadline for ratification of midnight on a certain date (which escapes me) 30-days after the counter-signature. I was there with my father (he could not drive) and we all waited. The MAC reneged with less that 1-hour to go. Although Akron and Kent cast the negative votes; they were not the instigators.
It was YSU that requested the results of the vote (2 schools had to vote "no"). There were two (2) NO votes cast ...Kent and Akron. You may recall the war of words and accusations that followed ...including accusations of Tressel stealing 2 recruits from Akron. Remember how upset Cochran was? Remember how quickly Akron was dropped from every schedule we had & for a while on every sport? Believe it or not, those were great times in YSU sports history.
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1AA fan, I have no doubt the there may have been UNIVERSITY PRESIDENTS at MAC schools who did not want YSU to join the conference. But, it had nothing to do with fearing YSU in athletics. Rather, it allows the MAC Presidents to deem themselves as superior academic institutions to YSU. It's the same reason a school such as CSU or Wright State would never get admitted. Yes, I know they do not play football. But, the MAC has not had any issues with allowing Temple and UMASS into the conference for football only.
As for Cochran being irate about the decision, I do not recall that happening. I do recall Dr. Cochran being unwilling to guarantee YSU would increase their athletic budget. Les did some positive things for YSU, but he also did plenty of negatives. And, he was good at feigning outrage, or whatever else he needed to feign to convince people in the Ytown area he was looking out for the best interest of the school.
If you were on campus during the Cochran era, and talked to faculty, staff and students, you would know this to be true. I was a post-grad student in 97-98 at YSU. I worked on campus. And, trust me, when Cochran announced he was leaving, the consensus opinion was don't let the door hit you on the way out.
I would just like the talk about YSU in the MAC madness to stop once and for all. Yes, the YSU-Akron rivalry was a great one. And, the schools now play in almost every sport but football and men's basketball. I know the reason Slocum and Strollo give for the teams no longer playing in men's basketball. I think it is total BS. Akron dominated the series when the teams resumed playing. Slocum is o fir his career at YSU against Akron. The Zips program is well ahead of YSU. They do not need to play YSU in basketball. And, I do not understand why YSU cannot go and play at Akron. Beat the Zips in basketball, and then maybe YSU can demand Akron play at YSU.
As for football, Akron is having no problem scheduling an FCS opponent each year, and I see no reason why ANT team in FBS ought to play at an FCS school. That would be akin to YSU playing at a D2 school, which is not going to happen in football or basketball.
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YSU is an ABET accredited state institution. YSU's undergraduate engineering program is ranked 45 out of 200+ institutions world wide. The undergraduate chemistry program feeds Emory University graduate programs. I believe that there are more YSU graduates in Emory's graduate and post graduate chemistry program than any other school.
I hear that the education and physical therapy programs are also good.
I am sick of hearing the nonsense that YSU is not up to par academically. You are probably getting your misinformation from the liberal arts morons that got their degrees from Kent read, Kent write, Kent State and Kent tailgate.
Every engineer I've ever worked with from Akron has been substandard. I would never hire an engineer from Akron or tOSU their undergraduate programs are not as good as YSU's. Kent doesn't have an engineering program. I don't care what anyone says I have first hand experience with data to back it up.
YSU not being up to the standards of MAC schools is a perception issue not a reality. YSU is better than most other schools at getting their undergraduate students prepared to take productive tangible jobs that support industry and society; engineers, chemists, physical therapists, school teachers etc...
Kent makes writer's and architects. The writers contribute nothing and the architects have to get their drawings approved by YSU professional engieers because the architect's watered down undergraduate mathematics doesn't allow him to fully understand static and dynamic loads and that makes it illegal for him to stamp his drawings. What is that worth? A half of a degree? You can't do anything with that if you wanted to be an entrepreneur; you would have to hire someone to approve your designs.
I am using engineering as my example because I am one but I bet you could find others in the fields I've named above here that could bring about similar points.
If you want to be a writer or an English major you basically have to get a graduate or post graduate degree in order to find employment. A liberal arts degree is about as valuable as the piece of paper it is written on. With an undergraduate degree from Kent you can get a nice position in fast food. Want fries with that?
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On the matter of academics, I invite everybody to read a book by Murray Sperber, BEER AND CIRCUS: HOW BIG-TIME SPORTS IS CRIPPLING UNDERGRADUATE EDUCATION. Sperber was the Indiana professor who stood up to that blowhard Bobby Knight. You will be shocked at how bad undergraduate education is at many "big name" schools and, by comparison, you will be very proud of your YSU degree.
On the matter of future football schedules, it seems to me that we are assuming that the composition of Division I football will remain the same. I am not so sure. The "Power 5" have already negotiated virtual autonomy within the NCAA. Those schools will not stop there. They will soon pay their jocks, first in disguised form through their "full cost of attendance" gimmick. They will soon leave the "wannabe" FBS programs in the dust.
When that separation between the Power 5 and everybody else in FBS becomes crystal clear, will the NCAA continue to operate with five football divisions (Power 5, rest of FBS, FCS, D2, and D3?) Or will they consolidate into four (Power 5, D1, D2, and D3?) Remember that FCS can now outvote the FBS wannabes. I project that the NCAA will make that consolidation and then reduce scholarships in D1 to 63 and give every D1 football conference the choice of participation in the playoffs or seeking berths in the Clorox Toilet bowls. Best policy for YSU right now is to fix the darn football program and then sit back and wait until this all unfolds.
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Penguinpower, I never said YSU is inferior to MAC schools academically. The point I was making, is if YSU is in the MAC for athletics, then it becomes much harder to make the claim YSU is not on equal footing with those schools academically. Remember, it is the University Presidents that vote on admitting schools to a conference, not the coach's or AD's. The same is true when a school decides to leave one conference for another. Yes, coach's and AD's might have input, but the final decision is made by the University President, with the support of the Board of Trustees.
I'm a graduate of YSU. It is a good school. It is better for some areas of study than others, as is true of most Public Schools. With YSU no longer admitting every high school grad from Ohio that applies, and instead having those students steered toward EGCC, that ought to help retention rates for YSU. At the same time, people who need to make up deficiencies from high school, or spend the first 1-2 years taking remedial classes that do not count toward graduation, will have a place to do so. And, it is a place where they do not have to deal with feeling inferior.
Wick250, I agree with you on FBS. I do not think we have seen the end of the changes. Big 12 only has 10 schools. PAC 12 is at 12. Model for "power 5" conferences now seems to be at least 14 schools. And, there is still a possibility the power 5 could break away from the NCAA altogether, or as you stated, the NCAA deem the "power 5" as their own division for football.
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Penguinpower, I never said YSU is inferior to MAC schools academically. The point I was making, is if YSU is in then MAC for athletics, then it becomes much harder to make the claim YSU is not on equal footing with those schools academically. Remember, it is the University Presidents that vote on admitting schools to a conference, not the coach's or AD's. The same is true when a school decides to leave one conference for another. Yes, coach's and AD's might have input, but the final decision is made by the University President, with the support of the Board of Trustees.
I'm a graduate of YSU. It is a good school. It is better for some areas of study than others, as is true of most Public Schools. With YSU no longer admitting every high school grad from Ohio that applies, and instead having those students steered toward EGCC, that ought to help retention rates for YSU. At the same time, people who need to make up deficiencies from high school, or spend the first 1-2 years taking remedial classes that do not count toward graduation, will have a place to do so. And, it is a place where they do not have to deal with feeling inferior.
Wick250, I agree with you on FBS. I do not think we have seen the end of the changes. Big 12 only has 10 schools. PAC 12 is at 12. Model for "power 5" conferences now seems to be at least 14 schools. And, there is still a possibility the power 5 could break away from the NCAA altogether, or as you stated, the NCAA deem the "power 5" as their own division for football.
To your it probably doesn't help us the fact that Tressel doesn't have a doctorate degree.
But at the end of the day running YSU is not much different than running a business that is regulated by government. There are a lot of moving parts. Financial, compliance Human resources, marketing and public relations, demographics are similar except YSU fields multiple sports teams.
Just because you have a PhD doesn't mean you can do it better. YSU needs to change its image among the other presidents.
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I couldn't care less if Tressel has a Doctorate Degree. I stated so on SEVERAL occasions back when the process of hiring new President was being discussed. I said Tressel was the best person for the job among those who applied. Then, hire as highly qualified a person as possible as the Provost. I have no idea why some people on this board, yourself included, seem to feel a need to make ASSUMPTIONS about other's who post on this site.
I'm not sure why it is so hard for you to understand the points I am trying to make, or why you are so defensive toward YSU. Did you not read where I wrote that I'm a graduate of YSU? Do you realize I went to YSU by CHOICE, not because it was my only option? That I returned to YSU 6 years after earning my Business Administration Degree to pursue teacher certification in Elementary Education? I'm proud to have graduated from YSU, but I'm not so proud as to overlook the deficiencies of the University. The PERCEPTION(right or wrong) is that YSU is not as good of a school academically as those in the MAC. If the Presidents of the MAC voted to allow YSU to join the conference for athletics, that would give the PERCEPTION that YSU is just as good as those in the MAC, both academically and athletically. That would make recruiting NON-ATHLETES who are interested in YSU more difficult for the schools in the MAC. I do not see why this is so hard to understand, or why it is so hard to understand that is the MAIN point I have been making in the past few posts? ???
A degree from YSU is not going to open as many doors as a degree from a whole host of other schools. That is just reality. Does not necessarily mean a person cannot get a top quality education at YSU. Does not mean a graduate of YSU will not be as good or better of an employee as a person with a degree from the perceived higher prestige schools. It just means the degree is not going to carry as much weight with employer's as a degree from a whole host of other schools, especially the further one get's from Youngstown geographically.
The 4 year graduation rate as of 2013 was 10%, which is awful.... 6 year graduation rate 34% and 8 year graduation rate 39%. ALL of those numbers are unacceptable, and need to be addressed if the reputation of YSU is to improve. And, this is where EGCC comes into play. Several schools in the MAC have satellite campus. It is not uncommon for students to start out at a place such as Kent-Trumbull, and then after 1-2 years transfer to the main campus. Others are able to get the education/training they need at Kent-Trumbull.
YSU has a partnership with Eastern Gateway, and for the first time has started to move away from being an open admissions university. This is good for YSU. This is good for Eastern Gateway, and it is good for the ENTIRE Mahoning Valley. A 4 year college is not for everyone, but in today's economy, it is imperative that a person have some kind of post high school training. It can be in a skilled trade, computers, cutting hair or any number of things that do not require going to a traditional, 4 year college. And, as less students enter YSU needing to make up severe deficiencies from high school, or testing into remedial math and English, the retention rates ought to increase, as well as the graduation rates. Eastern Gateway is not a true satellite campus of YSU. But, the school does have partnerships with YSU. And, that is to the benefit of both schools. I know YSU has had plans to develop a Youngstown based Community College, just not sure if/when that is going to happen, or if it has happened, as I now live in in Las Vegas
Community College Education in the Mahoning Valley
http://www.ysu.edu/cc/
Again, this is not difficult to understand, and I'm not sure why it is taken as me demeaning YSU?
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Regarding the schedule and attendance. Did anyone catch a glimpse of the Pitt at FIU game today? Stadium looked almost empty. Official announced attendance was 10,147. Pitt goes on the road to play in front of an announced 10 thousand.
Not they would ever (which they wouldn't) play at YSU, but I would think we could draw more than 10,147 actual fans in a game against Pitt (or any other FBS school)
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Regarding the schedule and attendance. Did anyone catch a glimpse of the Pitt at FIU game today? Stadium looked almost empty. Official announced attendance was 10,147. Pitt goes on the road to play in front of an announced 10 thousand.
Not they would ever (which they wouldn't) play at YSU, but I would think we could draw more than 10,147 actual fans in a game against Pitt (or any other FBS school)
Theres no reason they cant play here, PSU just played at Akron and Mizzou just played at Toledo.
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Those are all FBS teams.... Sorry but no FBS team is gonna play AT an FCS school.
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Those are all FBS teams.... Sorry but no FBS team is gonna play AT an FCS school.
Got any proof of that? No? didnt think so.
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Scalzo had a good point in his article tonight: YSU and Western Illinois are the only MVFC teams to not play a full scholarship FCS team... But Western Illinois is playing 2 BIG 10 teams..... Sigh. But were gonna keep letting Strollo blow smoke out of his a$$
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Scalzo had a good point in his article tonight: YSU and Western Illinois are the only MVFC teams to not play a full scholarship FCS team... But Western Illinois is playing 2 BIG 10 teams..... Sigh. But were gonna keep letting Strollo blow smoke out of his a$$
you have to make those teams WANT to play you, i know this is the last year the B1G is playing FCS schools for example
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Scalzo had a good point in his article tonight: YSU and Western Illinois are the only MVFC teams to not play a full scholarship FCS team... But Western Illinois is playing 2 BIG 10 teams..... Sigh. But were gonna keep letting Strollo blow smoke out of his a$$
you have to make those teams WANT to play you, i know this is the last year the B1G is playing FCS schools for example
Your post is incoherent.
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Scalzo had a good point in his article tonight: YSU and Western Illinois are the only MVFC teams to not play a full scholarship FCS team... But Western Illinois is playing 2 BIG 10 teams..... Sigh. But were gonna keep letting Strollo blow smoke out of his a$$
you have to make those teams WANT to play you, i know this is the last year the B1G is playing FCS schools for example
Your post is incoherent.
No its perfectly fine, you just have a YSU education
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PITT is NOT going to play at YSU. The attendance at the PITT-FIU game is irrelevant in regards to an FBS team playing at an FCS school. With a rare exception of a former FCS program transitioning to FBS, or a new FBS program with a schedule made years in advance, there is NO REASON for an FBS team to play at an FCS School. That would be the same as an FCS team playing at a D2 school.
I'd like to know what some of you are smoking, because I'd like to get my hands on that stuff. I'm serious. Whatever kind of wacky tobacky you are smoking, PLEASE send some my way. PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE!
As far as the MFVC, YSU is going to have their hands full with the conference. The only teams I have any confidence predicting YSU winning are against WIU and South Dakota, both at home. I'm going to predict 3-3 at the best in the other 6 games, with a high probability of 2-4
* NDSU is 3-0... Iowa State, beat Iowa today, and NDSU dominated Iowa State 34-14. NDSU also won at Weber State 24-7, and today beat Incarnate Word 58-0.
* Indiana State is 2-1 and won 27-20 today at Ball State. They also have a win over Tenn Tech(49-14), and a loss at Indiana(28-10)
* Illinois State is 2-0. They beat Miss Valley State 62-0 and today beat EIU 34-15
*SIU is 3-0... They have a Non D1 win, and wins at EIU(38-21) and today over SE Missouri 50-23
*SDSU is 2-1.. lost 38-18 at #24 Missouri... Beat Cal-Poly 44-18, and today won at Southern Utah 26-6
*Missouri State is 2-1... They beat North Dakota 38-0 today. They also have a 34-27 win at Northwestern State. The loss was 40-23 at Oklahoma State
* South Dakota 1-1, is trailing Montana 21-13 at Montana in the 4th qtr.... So far, their only win was over a non D2 team
* WIU has 2 wins over teams from the Pioneer and a 31-3 loss at Wisconsin. Although, they did beat Valpo 45-16 and Drake 38-13. Neither game was close, and at least against low level competition they have shown an ability to score plenty of points.
ALL of these teams have shown an ability to score points. Any team in the MVFC with an ability to score 30,40,50,60,70 points, even against a weak opponent is going to give YSU fits. All but SIU have played only FCE full scholly teams, or teams in FBS. All but ISU have won a game on the road. ISU has not yet played a road game.
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Scalzo had a good point in his article tonight: YSU and Western Illinois are the only MVFC teams to not play a full scholarship FCS team... But Western Illinois is playing 2 BIG 10 teams..... Sigh. But were gonna keep letting Strollo blow smoke out of his a$$
you have to make those teams WANT to play you, i know this is the last year the B1G is playing FCS schools for example
Your post is incoherent.
No its perfectly fine, you just have a YSU education
You couldn't get a GED. Turn your spell checker on so you can be understood and so you can spell your name.
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A college education is what you make of it. However, when searching on-line for Ohio schools for our son to apply to, including MAC and YSU, we could find no indication of any minimum GPA or ACT standard for admittance to YSU. That was an eye-opener for me. They have "conditional admission" for those with below a 2.0 in high school. Sorry, those people do not belong at any college. Until the remedial kids get funneled to community college and there is an admission standard, the perception will be the reality for some. They are on the right track by pushing people to EGCC and away. That is what will change the perception.
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EGCC needs to be an extension of YSU or be shut down. The VoTech is right next door. Should be Tressel's first priority as President. This community is too small to support two colleges.
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For all the hoopla about playing these lower level FCS schools, at least we aren't playing (and losing to) D2 schools. Sam Houston State, ranked one spot ahead of us at #15, got absolutely embarrassed yesterday by Division 2 Colorado State - Pueblo by the final score 47-21.
Oh yeah, this is a SHSU team that finished 8-4 like us last year but made it into the playoffs.
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For all the hoopla about playing these lower level FCS schools, at least we aren't playing (and losing to) D2 schools. Sam Houston State, ranked one spot ahead of us at #15, got absolutely embarrassed yesterday by Division 2 Colorado State - Pueblo by the final score 47-21.
Oh yeah, this is a SHSU team that finished 8-4 like us last year but made it into the playoffs.
We had more division 1 wins than them and they were picked over us
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We should not be getting our information from Scalzo. Many of his articles are filled with misinformation.
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That's last week's poll. They updated the records, but haven't released the new rankings yet.
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This is from Scalzo's Penguin Insider blog on Vindy.com. I believe he makes some good points in here.
Before I talk about the win over Butler, I want to start with this score from Saturday: Indiana State 27, Ball State 20.
Earlier in the week, YSU athletic director Ron Strollo explained why the Penguins scheduled three weak home games, including one against the non-scholarship Bulldogs. And I get it. Running an athletic department isn't cheap and, like most schools, YSU needs football to pay the bills.
But I also think it's short-sighted. Unlike most schools in the Missouri Valley, the Penguins play in a MAC-obsessed state. Beating a team like Ball State may cost YSU a little money in the short-term, but not only does it give your playoff hopes a boost, it gets people talking about Youngstown State football. And trust me, as someone who writes about YSU football for a living, there's not enough of that happening in Youngstown.
Maybe the Penguins' accountants wouldn't trade the Butler game for Ball State, but I think they're the only ones.
Saturday's crowd wasn't bad — there were 14,381 tickets distributed, although I'd guess they probably had half that number in the stands — but nobody was there because they thought it would be a great game. They were there because they like watching YSU football.
I think these games do long-term damage, because I think many fans can (and do) start to resent having to watch blowouts just so YSU can balance its budget. Maybe a game at Akron or Kent doesn't make as much sense financially, but the fans (and, yes, the media) would love it.
It also doesn't help that YSU's home conference schedule stinks. The Penguins play North Dakota State and South Dakota State on the road and don't play Northern Iowa at all. (UNI is off YSU's schedule this year and next year.) That leaves Western Illinois, Southern Illinois, South Dakota and Indiana State.
One more point: If YSU had won more conference game in each of the last three seasons, this whole discussion is moot. Nobody would care. The frustration over YSU's playoff drought is spilling over into everything else.
But as I wrote earlier this week, YSU is one of just two MVFC teams not to play at least one full-scholarship FCS team in its non-conference schedule. And the other one, Western Illinois, is playing two Big Ten teams.
the breakdown of MVFC non-conference games:
Illinois State (only three games, all full-scholarship FCS)
Mississippi Valley State: SWAC
Eastern Illinois: OVC
Austin Peay: OVC
Indiana State (two FBS, two full-scholarship FCS)
Indiana: Big Ten
Tennessee Tech: OVC
Ball State: MAC
Liberty: Big South
Missouri State (one FBS, three full-scholarship FCS)
Northwestern State: Southland
Oklahoma State: Big 12
North Dakota: Big Sky
Central Arkansas: Southland
North Dakota State (one FBS, three full-scholarship FCS)
Iowa State: Big 12
Weber State: Big Sky
Incarnate Word: Southland
Montana: Big Sky
UNI (two FBS, two full-scholarship FCS)
Iowa: Big Ten
Hawaii: Mountain West
Northern Colorado: Big Sky
Tennessee Tech: OVC
South Dakota (one FBS, two full-scholarship FCS, one NAIA)
Oregon: PAC-12
William Penn: NAIA
Montana: Big Sky
Northern Arizona: Big Sky
South Dakota State (one FBS, two full-scholarship FCS, one Division III)
Missouri: SEC
Cal Poly: Big Sky
Southern Utah: Big Sky
Wis.-Oshkosh: Division III
Southern Illinois (one FBS, two full-scholarship FCS, one NAIA)
Taylor: NAIA
Eastern Illinois: OVC
SE Missouri State: OVC
Purdue: Big Ten
Western Illinois (two FBS, two non-scholarship FCS)
Valparaiso: Pioneer
Wisconsin: Big Ten
Drake: Pioneer
Northwestern: Big Ten
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YSU's "weenie" schedule is an embarrassment. Scalzo makes lots of good points. St. Frank is going to be thrilling !!
NOT !
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You have to question Scalzo's journalistic integrity here. I know a lot of people who travel long distances just to come to YSU games because they love YSU football.
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I thought this was one of the better articles written by Scalzo. He made alot of good points, and I like that he provided the OOC schedules for every team in MFVC.
Also, he is spot on about Ohio being a huge MAC state. Not sure I would go as far as to say obsessed, but there are 6 MAC schools in Ohio. EMU is only about 1 hour from Toledo. Buffalo is only a 3 hour drive from Ytown/Warren area. Also, there are tens of thousands, possibly hundreds of thousands of MAC school graduates living in Ohio. Ytown/Warren area alone likely has tens of thousands of grads from MAC schools.
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As too the comment of the financial end being short-sighted, its actually quite the opposite. With the formation of the Big 5, in 5-7 years time I-AA football will either be non-existant or DII. Only the financially prudent will make it to D-II. With YSU's current gigantic budgetary short-falls, the last thing the football team needs at this point is over spending. OR they can spend like crazy the next 5-7 years, not make it, and then YSU will turn into Eastern Gateway.
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As too the comment of the financial end being short-sighted, its actually quite the opposite. With the formation of the Big 5, in 5-7 years time I-AA football will either be non-existant or DII. Only the financially prudent will make it to D-II. With YSU's current gigantic budgetary short-falls, the last thing the football team needs at this point is over spending. OR they can spend like crazy the next 5-7 years, not make it, and then YSU will turn into Eastern Gateway.
Great post Observer. Scalzo doesn't have an inch of economic education. To say only the accountants at YSU care is flat out stupid. Every University in the country is trying to maximize revenue. YSU's athletics department is no different.
If Scalzo thinks beating Ball State is better than making $200,000, well I've got some lakefront property on the South Side of Youngstown in an up and coming neighborhood to sell him.
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As too the comment of the financial end being short-sighted, its actually quite the opposite. With the formation of the Big 5, in 5-7 years time I-AA football will either be non-existant or DII. Only the financially prudent will make it to D-II. With YSU's current gigantic budgetary short-falls, the last thing the football team needs at this point is over spending. OR they can spend like crazy the next 5-7 years, not make it, and then YSU will turn into Eastern Gateway.
Great post Observer. Scalzo doesn't have an inch of economic education. To say only the accountants at YSU care is flat out stupid. Every University in the country is trying to maximize revenue. YSU's athletics department is no different.
If Scalzo thinks beating Ball State is better than making $200,000, well I've got some lakefront property on the South Side of Youngstown in an up and coming neighborhood to sell him.
How about start winning big games. Get into the playoffs. Win a few National Championships, become relevant again and the fans will fill the stands and the money will flow.
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You have to question Scalzo's journalistic integrity here. I know a lot of people who travel long distances just to come to YSU games because they love YSU football.
He mentions those folks when he says "nobody was there because they thought it would be a great game. They were there because they like watching YSU football."
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As too the comment of the financial end being short-sighted, its actually quite the opposite. With the formation of the Big 5, in 5-7 years time I-AA football will either be non-existant or DII. Only the financially prudent will make it to D-II. With YSU's current gigantic budgetary short-falls, the last thing the football team needs at this point is over spending. OR they can spend like crazy the next 5-7 years, not make it, and then YSU will turn into Eastern Gateway.
Great post Observer. Scalzo doesn't have an inch of economic education. To say only the accountants at YSU care is flat out stupid. Every University in the country is trying to maximize revenue. YSU's athletics department is no different.
If Scalzo thinks beating Ball State is better than making $200,000, well I've got some lakefront property on the South Side of Youngstown in an up and coming neighborhood to sell him.
How about start winning big games. Get into the playoffs. Win a few National Championships, become relevant again and the fans will fill the stands and the money will flow.
I think that's what they're trying to do.
By giving them three easy non-conference wins, I'm sure they figure that's one way to get them back into the playoffs. I could be wrong though.
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How about start winning big games. Get into the playoffs. Win a few National Championships, become relevant again and the fans will fill the stands and the money will flow.
Well you broke it down to the basics, but really that is all there is to it.
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If Scalzo thinks beating Ball State is better than making $200,000, well I've got some lakefront property on the South Side of Youngstown in an up and coming neighborhood to sell him.
Don't forget to subtract the MAC school's payout YSU would receive from the 200,000. If YSU could get Kent or Akron to pay them close to 200,000, then they would come close to breaking even.
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As too the comment of the financial end being short-sighted, its actually quite the opposite. With the formation of the Big 5, in 5-7 years time I-AA football will either be non-existant or DII. Only the financially prudent will make it to D-II. With YSU's current gigantic budgetary short-falls, the last thing the football team needs at this point is over spending. OR they can spend like crazy the next 5-7 years, not make it, and then YSU will turn into Eastern Gateway.
Great post Observer. Scalzo doesn't have an inch of economic education. To say only the accountants at YSU care is flat out stupid. Every University in the country is trying to maximize revenue. YSU's athletics department is no different.
If Scalzo thinks beating Ball State is better than making $200,000, well I've got some lakefront property on the South Side of Youngstown in an up and coming neighborhood to sell him.
In some cases it is JJ. It all depends on department goals and we really do not know them. I can say that Strollo has really been able to do so much more than any of his predecessors with his money. He has realized the value of building from the inside out. Facilities first.
Beating Ball State helps us with regional recognition.
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According to this article on fbschedules.com, Kent is paying 290,000 to Howard in 2017 and 2018. Strollo told Joe Scalzo back in September that YSU clears around 200,000 per home game. Even if YSU would just break-even, I would rather drive to Kent for a good game against the Flashes than watch the Guins destroy Valpo at home. Makes me wonder if Strollo has had any conversations with the Ohio MAC schools about possible games.
The Kent State Golden Flashes have added games against Alabama, Howard, and Kennesaw State to their future football schedules, FBSchedules.com has learned through records obtained from KSU.
Kent State will travel to face the Alabama Crimson Tide at Bryant-Denny Stadium in Tuscaloosa on Sept. 24, 2016. The Golden Flashes will receive a $1.5 million guarantee for playing the game, according to a copy of the contract.
Alabama and Kent State’s first and only meeting took place in Tuscaloosa in 2011. The Crimson Tide won that contest 48-7.
Other games previously scheduled for Kent State in 2016 include at Penn State (Sept. 3), vs. Monmouth (Sept. 17), and at Army (Oct. 1).
Kent State will play Howard, an FCS program they’ve never faced, in consecutive seasons. The Golden Flashes are set to host the Bison at Dix Stadium in Kent, Ohio on Sept. 9, 2017 and Sept. 8, 2018.
Howard will receive a $290,000 guarantee for each game played against Kent State.
Kent State opens the 2017 season at Clemson (Sept. 2) and also travels to Marshall (Sept. 16). The Golden Flashes need one more game to complete their 2017 slate.
The addition of Howard tentatively completes the 2018 schedule for Kent State. KSU opens the season at Illinois (Sept. 1), travels to Penn State (Sept. 15), and later hosts Georgia Southern (Sept. 22).
Kent State has also added a pair of games against another FCS opponent. The Golden Flashes will host the Kennesaw State Owls at Dix Stadium on Thursday, Aug. 29, 2019 and again on Thursday, Sept. 3, 2020, both season-openers.
The Owls will receive guarantees of $300,000 for the 2019 game and $315,000 for the 2020 game.
Kennesaw State, which is located in Kennesaw, Georgia, recently started their football program. They begin play in 2015 and will be a member of the Big South Conference in the Football Championship Subdivision.
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Kent and Akron have no interest in playing YSU, mainly because we have a good shot at beating them every single time (Whether they admit it or not)
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Penguin power said it best: "How about start winning big games. Get into the playoffs. Win a few National Championships, become relevant again and the fans will fill the stands and the money will flow."
YSU football no longer relevant on a local or regional level. Most of the kids being recruited today were infants the last time YSU played in the title game in 1999. Our program is just "ok", nothing more.
Bottom line is Jon Heacock and Eric Wolford cannot win the big games. Heacock 0-9 against Northern Iowa. Wolford 2-10 combined against Northern Iowa, SD State, and ND State, enough said.
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Time to say something................ I like playing Kent or Akron as well as anyone. But the reality is both Kent and Akron are normally bottom teams in the MAC. It isn't a big deal beating basement teams , especially when they are close games and you also lose some. Doesn't say much for the chance of YSU success in the MAC.
The MVFC has better teams because of better players and coaching. Yep, believe it or not some good players come from the Dakotas , MInnesota, Iowa, etc. The days of Youngstown being a dominate area for FCS players is over. Talent here is very average and the best opt for a higher level of play. That's why the coaches seek out players from better recruiting areas for FCS players -- Fla., Cal., Carolinas, etc. Many here think YSU has good players and they do.... to a degree. But there are holes in the program both on O and D. All those better players still can't win when you have weak spots.
I'm also of the opinion that some of the players DON'T LIKE playing for some of the coaches here, HC included. Players loved to play for Tressel. Can't say that I see the same for Wolf. Frankly, I suspect he is an azz to play for. Some assistants may be viewed that way too.
I also suspect that the poor AD that's here now doesn't know who or what to schedule for games. The blood game usually means a loss and the weenie games......... well they are weenies and don't count for much come playoff time. Until the talent is improved so YSU becomes a top team in the MVFC and has coaches that can take them there, the playoffs which is the goal for most will remain elusive.
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Truth be told its not 1994. We are 20 years removed and soooo much has changed in the landscape of college football. We just lost to WIU in Stambaugh Stadium a once feared place to play. YSU would have nothing to lose by playing any MAC team on the road.
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Will I get banned if I agree with Paladin? :o
The days of Youngstown being a dominate area for FCS players is over. Talent here is very average and the best opt for a higher level of play. That's why the coaches seek out players from better recruiting areas for FCS players -- Fla., Cal., Carolinas, etc. Many here think YSU has good players and they do.... to a degree. But there are holes in the program both on O and D. All those better players still can't win when you have weak spots.
One problem I see is coaching talent at the HS level. Too many players come in and are good and have raw talent, but lack the skill level necessary and spend too much time relearning the game. By skill level I mean proper technique and film study, which I would bet is weak at many high schools.
Chalk it up to job loss in the area? Increase in soccer programs? Problems in the educational system? All of the above? A. & B. but not C. or D.?
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I do not see Akron wanting to play YSU in football, and it has NOTHING to do with fear of losing. There are other issues when it comes to YSU and Akron playing each other in football and mens basketball.
Also, this is not the late 80's/mid 90's when YSU was coached by a guy named Tressel and dominated the series(7-2-1). Before Tressel, the series was 12-12-1. YSU is a shadow of the program they were under Tressel, and Akron looks as if they may be turning a corner with Terry Bowden as HC. Akron is 4-2/2-0, and they had a big road win at PITT(3-3) in their 4th game. Given the weakness of the MAC East, and the MAC as a whole, it is not unlikely that Akron will win at least 7-8 games and play in a bowl game. And, they play BG, the best team in the MAC East at home. Win that game, and Akron may well win the MAC East. Here is the remaining schedule for Akron:
@ Ohio(3-4/1-2)
@ Ball State(1-5/0-2)
BG(5-2/3-0)
@ Buffalo(3-4/1-2)
UMASS(1-6/1-2)
@ Kent(0-6/0-3)
AS for KENT, it appears they have FCS opponents for 2015-2020. Also, since YSU moved to FCS, the record against KENT is 4-4.... 4-3 with Tressel and 0-1 with Heacock.
MY OPINION on why Kent no longer plays YSU in football is because Strollo wants to maximize the number of home games, and Kent is NOT going to play at YSU. There is no reason to play at YSU, as Kent has no problem finding FCS teams willing to play at Kent. Also, starting in 2005, YSU began playing a "money game", and that means scheduling Kent would result in 2 FBS road games. The AD has made it clear YSU does not want to have 2 OOC road games period, let alone 2 from FBS.
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Paladin
When???? Will you ever get it through your head?. Akron no Kent do not, get that, do not want to play YSU.
AMen...ENOUGH....LEAVE It. They do not tolerate embarrassment , Been doing football at YSU for 40 years. Even, were you AD...they would still decline.
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Last year Kent AD expressed interest in renewing FB rivalry with YSU because of the extraordinary interest that the game would bring. Don't know if the opening resulted in any discussions, but obviously the expression of interest didn't result in anything.
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As usual Pita, you are a day late and a dollar short. I wasn't advocating that YSU play them. Simply responding to another's desire to play them. Playing them isn't a big deal as most of the time they are losers. I don't see the need to play them but always enjoyed the games. The rest of my post was far more relevant about the YSU program. than a comment about MAC teams
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Pal...don't ever think I'm a day late or a dollar short, don't exactly know why you labelled me as such. However, I only responded to a PART of your post. You countless times knock Strollo, and I for one do not like that, so that's the part I picked up on. I usually do not read your posts but I was waiting for baseball to start so, in boring moments I read what you had to say. Day late and dollar short....not in my life time.
CHEERS!!!!
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Paladin
When???? Will you ever get it through your head?. Akron no Kent do not, get that, do not want to play YSU.
AMen...ENOUGH....LEAVE It. They do not tolerate embarrassment , Been doing football at YSU for 40 years. Even, were you AD...they would still decline.
Pita,
I'm the one that brought it up again. When I saw what Kent was paying and that they have an FCS school on their schedule each of the next 6 years, I thought why couldn't that be the Guins. Akron has played an FCS school in 6 straight seasons, and has them on the schedule the next 2 years as well. Their out of conference schedule beyond that is incomplete. Besides the playoff games, I've enjoyed the Kent and Akron games the most during my almost 30 years of attending YSU games. If YSU can come close to breaking even, I would so much rather watch the Guins play one of these two on the road, than destroy a lousy team from the Pioneer Conference at home. I guess it's just mostly wishful thinking and selfishness on my part.