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YSU Penguin Athletics => YSU Penguin Athletics => Topic started by: IAA Fan on January 23, 2014, 07:01:05 PM
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Here we go.
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Starters:
Cole
KP
Weber
Belin
Hain
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A little sloppy ...this one could be over already. However it was a solid half and a double-digit lead. Hope you are all at the game :)
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Belin looks completely lost, he just can't seem to get into the flow. Hain hitting nice shoots and Keene added a little spark. Keep it up YSU!
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Well our 11-point lead is not a 1-point deficit. I cannot believe this team today.
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Perry can't hit free throws. Can't do that.
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Seems strange that the Horizon's highest scoring player went 1/7 from the line. Lost scoring opportunities that would make a HUGE difference in such a close game.
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that steal just cost us the game. We have absolutely no ability to stop this team from scoring
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Slocum outcoached again
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It has nothing to do with being out coached, as I did not see that. It has to do with YSU giving a person who only saw double-digits 1 time this year (against an NAIA school no less) despite seeing significant playing time ...14-points. You see, now I am no longer excited about going Saturday ...and I am making a special trip.
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I dont think the long 3 pointer was what Slocum had in mind for Perry with 20 seconds left. No one is gonna stop him off the dribble to the basket. Now converting is another question cause his shot would have been contested no doubt......
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KP had a bad night.... Kam, ANOTHER bad night. Valpo made adjustments in the 2nd half credit them... The refs were absolutely horrible tonight. KP shoulda had the and 1 on the 3 at the end, no call but he gets a tech for looking and staring at the ref, didn't say a word. What a joke! Just did not execute towards crunch time. Tough loss
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Unfortunately, in this league; you can't afford tough losses like that at home. Here we go for another 500 record. We've got to steal a few on the road now. I'm hoping now for a big win against Wright St.
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Anyone at the game seen slocum get out coached right from the start of the second half. He had no offensive or defensive plan. Yes the missed free throws hurt but a team that looked lost is on coaching period. His piss poor record in close games speaks for itself. Valpo lost 7 seniors from last year and still managed to own us. Slocum thanks for this one.
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Oops. They didn't play well and Alpo got a win with many of their players in big foul trouble. This is not a good team.
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I agree Slocum did get out coached in the 2nd half. He made no offensive adjustments. Just the same play after same play, waiting for KP to take over when he was clearly off tonight.... He has to figure something out with Kam. Teams have figured out how to guard him and take him out of the game. Gotta fix that. He's a big part of the offense but contributing nothing....
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Anyone at the game seen slocum get out coached right from the start of the second half. He had no offensive or defensive plan. Yes the missed free throws hurt but a team that looked lost is on coaching period. His piss poor record in close games speaks for itself. Valpo lost 7 seniors from last year and still managed to own us. Slocum thanks for this one.
Nice to have you back "pride"--we missed you while the team won. Glad you're able to spread your miserableness. Unfortunately, this game is on KP--and he's entitled to a bad game now and then. His missed free throws and the technical were certainly uncharacteristic for him. Their size hurt us--we rebounded poorly.
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Anytime "IP". Oh by the way I posted after the Detroit win you must have missed that. My miserableness was spread after that game as well. Check it out. Yes KP was off but the coaching was worse. 1,900 fans seen that coaching mess unfold after halftime. Have a great night!
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You're right "pride"---I tried to hide it--but I can't any longer. I saw Slocum tell Perry to miss those free throws. It WAS Slocum's fault. You're correct. By the way, did you actually read your post after the Detroit game? After acknowledging the win, you a) worried about next year, b) complained about the bench, c) told your fans about Slocum's February losses, and D) railed about the officiating. In retrospect, I guess that's as positive as it gets for you. You have a better night!!
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Thanks for seeing it my way "IP". I wonder what the halftime speach was? We got out coached after half and adjustments were made and we lost that battle of coaching adjustments. The 30 foot 3 pointer with 20 seconds was a great play to call after that timeout. Also, Keene played well in the 1st half so lets hardly play him in the 2nd half. Nice strategic move. When # 4 for Valpo got his 4th foul why didn't we drive it on him everytime to draw the 4th foul? That would have been an obvious coaching move but of course it was overlooked. Tell Slocum I said hi.
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Oops. They didn't play well and Alpo got a win with many of their players in big foul trouble. This is not a good team.
There you come again, only posting when we lose. Where were you the last three wins. Go away and wait for football.
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There were 4 Valpo players with 4-fouls by that time. No one in particular to pick on. This game should have been over in the first half. Valpo is not a good basketball team.
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There were 4 Valpo players with 4-fouls by that time. No one in particular to pick on. This game should have been over in the first half. Valpo is not a good basketball team.
They are in 3rd all by themselves, so they aren't a bad team like Detroit or UIC that is for damn sure. That was a poor second half. KP looked all out of sorts, perhaps he was trying to do too much with another NBA scout in attendance.
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What I hear anytime YSUPride or Paladin run their mouths
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6p1Ck0ab80
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JJ,
Your funny!! I believe that is Slocum drawing up another piss poor play is what you hear on that link.
Some of you are so out of tune you must enjoy LOSING and accept LOSING.
Records speak for themselves. Attendance speaks for the losing. Students behind the south hoops not involved. Fans around me think Slocum is a terrible coach. I am not the only one.
Deal with it ladies!
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It was like the team was just waiting for KP to take over late in the game... And it never happened. Who that falls on, Slocum or the players not executing, idk
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As I mentioned in an earlier post, Slocum said in the postgame interview "we thought we could DRIVE to the basket". This was when KP shot the long 3 on a broken play coming out of a time-out inside a minute to go in the game. Its easy to blame someone thats not playing but thats part of being a coach. Unfortunately, the 2nd half was full of empty possessions.....
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https://twitter.com/CoachCourtYSU/status/426746917612433408/photo/1 (https://twitter.com/CoachCourtYSU/status/426746917612433408/photo/1)
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I think had we been only competitive or down the entire game, it would not have "stung" so hard. However, we were up by 11, despite making some major errors. That makes it tough. Well, if someone asked me to take this loss in exchange for winning the remaining 10 regular-season games, I would jump at the offer. So. let's say I have taken the offer.
GoGuins!!
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Thanks for seeing it my way "IP". I wonder what the halftime speach was? We got out coached after half and adjustments were made and we lost that battle of coaching adjustments. The 30 foot 3 pointer with 20 seconds was a great play to call after that timeout. Also, Keene played well in the 1st half so lets hardly play him in the 2nd half. Nice strategic move. When # 4 for Valpo got his 4th foul why didn't we drive it on him everytime to draw the 4th foul? That would have been an obvious coaching move but of course it was overlooked. Tell Slocum I said hi.
OK "pride" let's say for arguments sake you are correct and Slocum got outcoached in the 2nd half. Does that mean he outcoached Waters from Cleveland St in the last few minutes when we were down and came back to win? And if so, why didn't you say that? You can't have it both ways. The truth of the matter is against Cle St KP made some great plays down the stretch and made his free throws and last night he didn't. It's really that simple. Maybe not for you though. And as I said KP has earned the right to have a bad game--and Indy's post with the twitter pic shows he will do something about it.
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JJ,
Your funny!! I believe that is Slocum drawing up another piss poor play is what you hear on that link.
Some of you are so out of tune you must enjoy LOSING and accept LOSING.
Records speak for themselves. Attendance speaks for the losing. Students behind the south hoops not involved. Fans around me think Slocum is a terrible coach. I am not the only one.
Deal with it ladies!
You clicked the link! LOL. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6p1Ck0ab80
Still just hearing non-sense. Most of your posts don't deserve a response, because the negative insane messages.
But how am I accepting losing? This team has had a winning record each of the last two seasons. Almost guaranteed of a winning one this year. Losing???
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Fans around me think Slocum is a terrible coach. I am not the only one.
Deal with it ladies!
If Slocum is a terrible coach, and you keep coming to the games, that's the literal definition of Rock Bottom for you.
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I watched the game on big screen computer. My thoughts --
1. Not the Alpo of old -- still they had trees inside and beat YSU to death on the boards
2. The idiot who thinks you drive inside on tall teams isn't very bright for a coach
3. KP sucked, badly -- terrible foul shooting and throwing up too many rushed shots
4. YSU had some balanced scoring but the D was awful. Again, nothing new. Coaching again.
5.With a big lead at half time, YSU did not adjust to Alpo the second half. That's on the coach.
6.YSU's short sub PG had a great first half and hardly saw the floor 2nd half. Why ? He was a scoring machine
7. Alpo may be currently 3rd but don't think they'll finish that high. Alpo isn't that good ( neither is YSU)
8. Long season ahead -- GB, Wright St., Cleve. St., etc. More losses to come
9. Have I mentioned the "great" AD who brought you this mess ? ;D
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Casual fans don't really know the players and don't care about a coach, one way or the other. They just want to latch on to winners. Many of you probably find casual fans as distasteful as I do, yet we can't fill up the stadium or the gym without them.
For the past several years, we have endured some really bad home losses in both football and basketball just at the point when casual fans were starting to pay attention. In football, it was Missouri State in 2011, Southern Illinois in 2012, and South Dakota State in 2013. In basketball, it was the blowout losses to Cleveland State and Detroit and now this bad loss to an average Valpo team last night. Dedicated fans complain, moan, and point fingers, but they will be back. Casual fans just shake their heads and walk away. That is what makes these poorly-timed home losses to teams that we should have beaten so devastating.
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I watched the game on big screen computer. My thoughts --
1. Not the Alpo of old -- still they had trees inside and beat YSU to death on the boards
2. The idiot who thinks you drive inside on tall teams isn't very bright for a coach
3. KP sucked, badly -- terrible foul shooting and throwing up too many rushed shots
4. YSU had some balanced scoring but the D was awful. Again, nothing new. Coaching again.
5.With a big lead at half time, YSU did not adjust to Alpo the second half. That's on the coach.
6.YSU's short sub PG had a great first half and hardly saw the floor 2nd half. Why ? He was a scoring machine
7. Alpo may be currently 3rd but don't think they'll finish that high. Alpo isn't that good ( neither is YSU)
8. Long season ahead -- GB, Wright St., Cleve. St., etc. More losses to come
9. Have I mentioned the "great" AD who brought you this mess ? ;D
I'm quoting you on you predicting our loss to WSU on Saturday. So when we win, I don't want to hear you b**** and whine about me calling you out on your B.S.
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Casual fans don't really know the players and don't care about a coach, one way or the other. They just want to latch on to winners. Many of you probably find casual fans as distasteful as I do, yet we can't fill up the stadium or the gym without them.
For the past several years, we have endured some really bad home losses in both football and basketball just at the point when casual fans were starting to pay attention. In football, it was Missouri State in 2011, Southern Illinois in 2012, and South Dakota State in 2013. In basketball, it was the blowout losses to Cleveland State and Detroit and now this bad loss to an average Valpo team last night. Dedicated fans complain, moan, and point fingers, but they will be back. Casual fans just shake their heads and walk away. That is what makes these poorly-timed home losses to teams that we should have beaten so devastating.
Good post. I like the use of "poorly-timed losses". I mean the first-half demonstrated what should have happened. You are so right on the casual nature of fans, look at all the Browns fans that went to Pittsburgh after the team disbanded. I am really not a Browns or Steelers fan, but in my mind any true Browns fan could NEVER root for the Steelers. I am a Baltimore Colts fan and and a LA Rams fan. I have no teams left, so I do not watch the NFL anymore. I do not like half the sports YSU plays, but I will go to any YSU sporting event ...any time. This is my school ...this are my teams.
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ALL this bickering , words going back and forth about coach Slocum and our team! Many of your points are indeed valid.
* The problem is we do not have the big man presence in the inside!
* We have fine guards that can score and move the ball quickly.
* The inside game with Hain and company lacks tenacity and perseverance.
* Hain can score and puts forth great effort, but lacks quickness and the ability to get high in the air for rebounds and for defense. (He tries hard, but then he gets into foul trouble)
* Against Valpo; we were out rebounded 35 to 20. That's 15 more scoring opportunities for Valpo.
* On the defensive side Valpo scored many uncontested lay ups.
* To be a consistent winner a team has to have a strong forceful presence with the inside game.
* If we could recruit that strong inside player, we could better than the current Green Bay team.
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Don't think we'll be Wright St. unless we play a hell of a lot better than we did against Valpo. As Paladin said Valpo is not a very good team. What does that say about us?
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Don't think we'll be Wright St. unless we play a hell of a lot better than we did against Valpo. As Paladin said Valpo is not a very good team. What does that say about us?
They are 1/2 game out of the #2 spot in the Horizon. My Lord we didn't lose to UIC or Detroit, we lost to the #3 team in the conference. Sure they aren't the team of last year, which we beat by 12 at home btw, but they are still a tradition filled program that has reloaded.
Any team with multiple bigs will pose major problems for us. We will need some people to step up on offense tomorrow because Wright State loves to milk the shot clock.
All the negativity over losing to a "bad" Valpo team... You ask what's it say about us, not too much. What's it say about our league if our #3 team is sooooooooooooo bad????
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Demorton you're making a misteak by taking anything paladin says as fact. He's the same guy that predicted Michigan State the #3 team in the country to finish with a losing record.
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Valpo lost to Wright St. at HOME 62-45. Small factoid.
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And, as I predicted in another thread, as soon as we lost, the miserable-mobile would pull up to the curb and they all would pile out and post. About Slocum, Strollo, no center, blah blah blah the same old crap. They had to be in hibernation for a couple of weeks while the team won a few in a row but they're back now. Coach Paladin gets off the porn sites long enough to watch the games on the internet. This is the same guy that leads you to believe that he funnels money to the Penguin Club. He doesn't even come to games. At least "pride", for all his miserableness, pays to voice his opinion--I give you credit for that pride. They've even got Wick converted!! Valpo won't win the league, but they're not that bad. We're probably not going to win the league either, but we're not bad. We're entertaining and the basketball is light years ahead of where it was five/ten years ago. That's obviously not good enough for elite sports fans like "Coach" Paladin and his ilk. So be it. My time's up here--wish you all luck and go YSU!!
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Wright State and Green Bay will take us to the cleaners if play at bad as we did against Valpo. Coach said we gave one away. He has said that just about every other time we lose at home. Winning home games is parmount in this league because you're not going to win many on the road. Sporting News predicted us for third place in the league. Many more performances like the other night might get us sixth or seventh. Now we have to steal a couple on the road.
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Wright State and Green Bay will take us to the cleaners if play at bad as we did against Valpo. Coach said we gave one away. He has said that just about every other time we lose at home. Winning home games is parmount in this league because you're not going to win many on the road. Sporting News predicted us for third place in the league. Many more performances like the other night might get us sixth or seventh. Now we have to steal a couple on the road.
We've lost 2 home games. One by 2 (APSU) and one by 3 (Valpo). So clearly, we are doing something right at home. Few teams can go undefeated at home in a season. Hell, the beloved Buckeyes lost 4 straight, including one at home. Let's all go jump off a bridge because OSU lost 4 straight. Clearly they must suck as a result.
We can beat Wright State tonight and I expect us to. They don't wow you, they just play solid all-around basketball. However, they are beatable. WE must control the tempo. Tempo is PARAMOUNT in this game. If we let them take 30 seconds off a shot clock, this will be a game in the 50s, if we set the tempo, we can push this into the 70s where they aren't at their best.
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IP,
How exactly have I been converted? I don't bash Slocum. In fact, I have little emotional attachment to men's basketball which is my least favorite among our three revenue sports. I just want all of our athletic programs to thrive, and, for that to happen, we need the patronage of casual fans who are much more numerous than dedicated fans. I stand by my statement that bad home losses in football and basketball are the "kiss of death" in our efforts to expand interest among those casual fans.
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Coach Paladin gets off the porn sites long enough to watch the games on the internet. This is the same guy that leads you to believe that he funnels money to the Penguin Club. He doesn't even come to games.My time's up here--wish you all luck and go YSU!!
Is Paladin back on the adult dating sites again?
I hope you don't leave IP. You're the only one who keeps this board tolerable.
Think of all the recruits and parents who read the garbage spewed here. We need a second voice, or the small, insignificant minority wins. We can't have that!!!
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IP,
How exactly have I been converted? I don't bash Slocum. In fact, I have little emotional attachment to men's basketball which is my least favorite among our three revenue sports. I just want all of our athletic programs to thrive, and, for that to happen, we need the patronage of casual fans who are much more numerous than dedicated fans. I stand by my statement that bad home losses in football and basketball are the "kiss of death" in our efforts to expand interest among those casual fans.
Agreed. For me I only care avout football but will attend MBB games if it is cold, there is nothing going on, and I am in town. I also do not like to see bad losses.
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Can't make it out to the games today but hoping for a W for both men and women!! Go guins
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Wright State and Green Bay will take us to the cleaners if play at bad as we did against Valpo. Coach said we gave one away. He has said that just about every other time we lose at home. Winning home games is parmount in this league because you're not going to win many on the road. Sporting News predicted us for third place in the league. Many more performances like the other night might get us sixth or seventh. Now we have to steal a couple on the road.
We've lost 2 home games. One by 2 (APSU) and one by 3 (Valpo). So clearly, we are doing something right at home. Few teams can go undefeated at home in a season. Hell, the beloved Buckeyes lost 4 straight, including one at home. Let's all go jump off a bridge because OSU lost 4 straight. Clearly they must suck as a result.
We can beat Wright State tonight and I expect us to. They don't wow you, they just play solid all-around basketball. However, they are beatable. WE must control the tempo. Tempo is PARAMOUNT in this game. If we let them take 30 seconds off a shot clock, this will be a game in the 50s, if we set the tempo, we can push this into the 70s where they aren't at their best.
Solid analysis Valley.
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Cleve. St. beat Valpo today , 69-50. Watch Alpo move down in the standings.
BTW, Austin Peay is now 8-12 and UMKC is 6-12. Kennesaw St. 4-18 Warren Wilson 10-10. Thiel 6-9. Westminster 3-14. Bethune -Cookman 2-19. Just keeping you updated
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WE lost to APU at home, a team we should have clearly beaten. We had an 11-point lead on Valpo and gave it away iin the second half. My point is we need to take the next step in the program if we going to be any kind of factor in the league and gain more fan support. We can't afford losses like that when the casual fans are starting to gain interest, then we lay an egg. That can't happen in front of decent crowds. Bottom line is we gave two winnable games away. You can't win every game at home, I understand that, but to give games away when you're clearly better than the other team, or have double digit leads is not going to draw crowds larger that what we have to the games. So if people are satisfied with a 500 or below records so be it. Remember, we had 22-point lead on Canisuis last year, and blew it. I expected us to lose to Cleveland St. , and I'm not sure we can beat Wright St. , but I hope so because we clearly blew the game against Valpo the other night. I love YSU and its sports programs, but average is not going to cut if you're trying to build fan support and take the program to next level.
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A few thoughts. Valpo is a solid team. Young, but solid. CSU is a solid team, and YSU stole a win over CSU at Beeghly. Give credit for YSU for playing until the end, but no excuse for CSU to blow a 5 point lead in the final 40 seconds of that game.
As for Austin Peay, that was not a favorable match-up for YSU. They have players with size inside who can score. Still a game I expected YSU to win, but as I watched the game, was not surprised YSU lost.
Only truly bad team in HL is UIC. GB is clearly the best team, but the other teams with the exception of UIC are in a true battler for places 2-7. Oakland also won today, which outs them at 3-4. Detroit is athletic, and has some big bodies inside, but not sure they can get back into the race.
Standings entering tonights YSU - WSU game:
TEAM CONF OVERALL
Green Bay 6-0 16-3
Wright State 5-2 13-9
Cleveland State 5-3 13-9
Valparaiso 4-3 12-10
Youngstown State 3-3 12-9
Oakland 3-4 8-14
Milwaukee 3-5 13-9
Detroit 2-4 9-12
Illinois-Chicago 0-7 5-16
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Valpo losing by 19 today makes the loss to them even worse...
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Valpo losing by 19 today makes the loss to them even worse...
Our win over Wright State today proves the doubters wrong. We've been the two teams tied at #2 in the conference!
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Cleve. St. beat Valpo today , 69-50. Watch Alpo move down in the standings.
BTW, Austin Peay is now 8-12 and UMKC is 6-12. Kennesaw St. 4-18 Warren Wilson 10-10. Thiel 6-9. Westminster 3-14. Bethune -Cookman 2-19. Just keeping you updated
Easetern Kentucky is 14-7 and ranked, just to keep YOU updated.
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Wonderball, just curious in what poll EKU is ranked?
They are NOT in the AP or Coach's Top 25
Here is a link to College Insider, Mid-Major Top 25, and no EKU... GB is 4th.... EKU is getting 33 votes, which put them at 30th, but that is NOT ranked
Here are other YSU opponents receiving votes: KENT(22 votes), CSU(11 votes), WSU(7 votes),
http://www.collegeinsider.com/mens-mid-major-top-25.php
Here is the Mid-Major Madness Top 15 poll, and again, no EKU.... GB is 8th ..UMASS is 3rd
http://www.midmajormadness.com/2014/1/27/5350412/mid-major-madness-power-15-richmond-crawls-into-the-poll
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Ranked? I want what you are smoking wonderballs.
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I noticed that Bethune-Cookman and Kennasaw State are ranked as well just ahead of EKU.
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Wonderball, just curious in what poll EKU is ranked?
They are NOT in the AP or Coach's Top 25
Here is a link to College Insider, Mid-Major Top 25, and no EKU... GB is 4th.... EKU is getting 33 votes, which put them at 30th, but that is NOT ranked
Here are other YSU opponents receiving votes: KENT(22 votes), CSU(11 votes), WSU(7 votes),
http://www.collegeinsider.com/mens-mid-major-top-25.php
My post was over the weekend and Eastern Kentucky was absolutely in the Mid Major top 25 until they lost over the weekend to Belmont. The new poll today has them out of the poll and if you notice there are alot of NR teams that moved up because of wins. the point of the post was that they are a very good team who is doing well in their conference and we beat them.
Here is the Mid-Major Madness Top 15 poll, and again, no EKU.... GB is 8th ..UMASS is 3rd
http://www.midmajormadness.com/2014/1/27/5350412/mid-major-madness-power-15-richmond-crawls-into-the-poll
The post I placed was over the weekend and EKU was absolutely in the Mid Major top 25 last week. the poll was updated today and they lost over the weekend to Belmont. The point was they are a very good team who is doing well in their conference, could make the NCAA and we beat them.
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I agree that EKU is a solid team, and that was a nice win for YSU. Also, I just checked the Mid-Major Top 25 today, and if EKU lost this weekend that explains EKU no longer in the ratings. Thanks for your response.
As for EKU making the NCAA Tournament, only way I see that happening is if they win the OVC Tournament. The OVC is a 1 bid league.... 25th in the RPI... EKU has RPI of 120, and for D1 games, EKU is only 10-7
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Ranked? I want what you are smoking wonderballs.
At the time, he was right:
Update: January 20th, 2014
record points previous
1. Wichita State (31) 19-0 775 1 Missouri Valley
2. Harvard 14-2 733 2 Ivy League
3. Gonzaga 16-3 713 3 West Coast
4. Toledo 15-2 679 4 Mid-American
5. Green Bay 15-3 638 6 Horizon
6. Indiana State 14-4 619 5 Missouri Valley
7. Stephen F. Austin 16-2 582 8 Southland
8. Manhattan 13-4 512 7 Metro Atlantic
9. Princeton 11-3 492 9 Ivy League
10. North Dakota State 14-5 478 10 Summit
11. Saint Mary's 14-5 473 12 West Coast
12. Mercer 15-5 451 13 Atlantic Sun
13. Ohio 13-4 375 16 Mid-American
14. UC Irvine 12-7 322 20 Big West
15. Northern Colorado 11-4 291 14 Big Sky
16. New Mexico State 14-7 248 11 WAC
17. Akron 11-6 244 15 Mid-American
18. UC Santa Barbara 11-5 234 22 Big West
19. BYU 13-7 184 NR West Coast
20. Boston University 12-6 133 25 Patriot
21. Kent State 11-6 131 19 Mid-American
22. Eastern Kentucky 13-6 130 24 Ohio Valley
23. Belmont 13-7 124 18 Ohio Valley
24. IPFW 15-6 82 23 Summit
25. Georgia State 12-6 56 NR Sun Belt
OTHERS RECEIVING VOTES: Northern Iowa 42, Missouri State 40, Eastern Michigan 31, Buffalo 30, Stony Brook 24, Drexel 22, Radford 21, Louisiana Lafayette 16, Towson 15, Sam Houston State 13, Hawaii 13, Columbia 12, Arkansas State 11, North Carolina Central 11, Chattanooga 10, Pacific 9, Pepperdine 8, Western Michigan 8, Canisius 6, Quinnipiac 6, Wright State 6, Delaware 5, Illinois State 5, American 4, Murray State 4, Alabama State 1, Florida Gulf Coast 1, Montana State 1, Vermont 11.
www.collegeinsider.com/mens-mid-major-top-25.php
Read more: http://clevelandstatehoops.proboards.com/thread/654/2013-14-mid-major-poll?page=2#ixzz2retVAss1