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YSU Penguin Athletics => YSU Penguin Athletics => Topic started by: goodnews on November 07, 2021, 10:43:53 PM

Title: Athletic Budget
Post by: goodnews on November 07, 2021, 10:43:53 PM
What sports do we potentially lose after just adding a few? I found a 2017 budget and nearly every team has a $500k budget. The following are far less:
Mens Golf $178k (which I thk has 6 endowed scholarships or more)
Women's Golf $220k
Mens Tennis $185k
Women's Tennis $220
Bowling $100k
Title: Re: Athletic Budget
Post by: Double ET on November 08, 2021, 09:29:25 AM
The $$$ we need to focus on is the coach salaries and travel expenses because these $$$ are going out of the university.
The scholarshipsí $$$ go back into the university budget (plus the state subsidies). It really didnít cost the university that much $$$.

This has been discussed with the universityís academic senate many times since the anti-athletic faculty always claimed that university could save all the scholarship $$$$ if certain sports were to be eliminated. However, the actual $$$ savings were much smaller than those claims.

As a matter of facts, the athletic spendings for the revenue generating sports for all the state universities in Ohio (except OSU) were analyzed (I was at those meetings), YSU was spending a lot less $$$ then other institutions. I remembered making a comment that I was surprised YSU even being competitive (for how much less we paid the coaches).
Title: Re: Athletic Budget
Post by: dwj on November 08, 2021, 02:32:00 PM
This may not be a popular opinion but maybe we should accept reality and and play at a level that we can afford to be competitive at. 
Title: Re: Athletic Budget
Post by: goodnews on November 08, 2021, 03:11:51 PM
I don't think they should cut anything from the Athletic Budget.  The department has a higher graduation rate then the rest of the school and that would be my defense.  These socialist organizations will burn the house down if they don't get their way.  Its time this BS stops and someone says NO.  Go somewhere else and make a living.
Title: Re: Athletic Budget
Post by: Dmorton on November 08, 2021, 03:56:27 PM
They are not going DII with all other sports at DI.
Title: Re: Athletic Budget
Post by: Double ET on November 08, 2021, 04:30:35 PM
So, if canít reduce the budget, let enhance the revenueÖÖ getting more butts (paying customers) in the seats, secure high payday with FBS team (s), donations from rich donors.
Like what we used to say in the private industries, you cannot save yourselves into prosperity and you can save into oblivion.

Run it like a businessÖ.starting with putting competitive products and promoting with a good marketing department. Currently, we are not doing well on both.

Go PenguinsÖ
Title: Re: Athletic Budget
Post by: Wick250 on November 08, 2021, 05:40:42 PM
Some DIII schools have literally stayed open by EXPANDING the athletic programs. They attract marginally talented (DIII) athletes who pay tuition for the privilege of playing the sport that they love.

What does that have to do with us?  Plenty. Outside of football and basketball, there are very few scholarships offered, even in DI.  For example:

Men: 11.7 scholarships for baseball
         12.6 for track/cross country
          9.9  for swimming 
          4.5  for golf and tennis

Women: 12 for softball
              18 for track/cross country
              12 for volleyball
              14 for swimming
              12 for lacrosse
              14 for soccer

Bottom line. The vast majority of our athletes in non-revenue sports are paying vast amounts of tuition and enhancing the body count for our student body.  A few examples:

We have 32 lacrosse players on the roster, sharing just 12 scholarships
We have 40 baseball players sharing less than 12 scholarships
We have 56 male track athletes for less than 13 scholarships
We have 59 female track athletes for 18 scholarships

Of course these facts mean nothing to critics. They can't accept the fact that sports are vastly more important to the university than their unpopular, soon to be extinguished "pet" courses.

Title: Re: Athletic Budget
Post by: goodnews on November 08, 2021, 05:54:24 PM
The status quo in the athletic department is to blame.  Although, I read an article where Rick Love indicated advertising dollars are back to pre-pandemic for Stambaugh Stadium.  If they have to cut a million dollars then each team takes less than a 10% hit. 
Title: Re: Athletic Budget
Post by: guinpen on November 08, 2021, 06:58:08 PM
So many questions and no way to get good answers. How is it possible that so many D2 schools have been able to move up and be successful while we stay stagnant? How is it possible that so many of our old peers in 1AA have been able to move up and have at least moderate success while we stay stagnant.

In each case money had to be a factor, yet they all were able to do it. Are we so different in how we fund sports, I just cannot believe that is the case.

I would be surprised if our Athletic dept has not done feasibility studies on moving up. Would that be public info?

So are we simply just happy to stay where we are or is our Athleitic Dept unable to figure it out?

I have no idea on how much more we would have to pay coaches to attract so called better quality staff but I would think that 10,000 more butts at football games and 5000 more at M/W basketball games would go a long way to foot the bill.

Just a frustrated but loyal fan.




 
Title: Re: Athletic Budget
Post by: YSUGO on November 08, 2021, 08:59:58 PM
The money isnít there due to the state of Youngstown shrinking.  Companies are gone people have moved.  It will take years to get back the football attendance if itís possible.  You diehards are stuck on being a football conference that doesnít fit due to geography economics and fan base. Teams in our divison in football have less expenses smaller stadiums and are making the playoffs.  Being in the MVFC means sh** when you canít compete.  Itís up to the AD to put us in a position for the athletes to be competitive to win.  We have a mediocre AD and the past 15 years we have been mediocre in most sports.  Starts at the top
Title: Re: Athletic Budget
Post by: guinpen on November 09, 2021, 06:50:33 AM
While listening to the game last Sat Hannon made the comment that Grand Forks had a population of 50 some thousand. I know that the State of Youngstown is shrinking but the Youngstown/Warren/New Castle/Sharon area certainly is larger then Grand Forks so at the very least we should have the population/money to compete where we are now.
Title: Re: Athletic Budget
Post by: YSU1 on November 09, 2021, 09:39:25 AM
The Fighting Hawks dome only seats 13,500
Title: Re: Athletic Budget
Post by: IAA Fan on November 09, 2021, 10:19:01 AM
The money isnít there due to the state of Youngstown shrinking.  Companies are gone people have moved.  It will take years to get back the football attendance if itís possible.  You diehards are stuck on being a football conference that doesnít fit due to geography economics and fan base. Teams in our divison in football have less expenses smaller stadiums and are making the playoffs.  Being in the MVFC means sh** when you canít compete.  Itís up to the AD to put us in a position for the athletes to be competitive to win.  We have a mediocre AD and the past 15 years we have been mediocre in most sports.  Starts at the top

I cannot completely agree here Go. Before Strollo we had no title-IX. we had no men's swimming (anymore), women's swimming was diving only (with just a few individual event competitors), no Men's tennis, No Bowling, no LAX, No outdoor Track & Field. We had no Softball field, no soccer/LAX stadium, no real weight rooms, our stadium could not broadcast a night game outside of our conference or a local-only broadcast (which meant daytime post-season games), the baseball team competed at a city park and another Colt-league field, while softball did the same on a little-league field). On top of this I think there are 5 new academic buildings on campus (which usually do not come when your sports are expanding) and tremendous expansion in existing athletic structures (which includes 3 field replacements in Stambaugh), WATTS added, and more. This is not even the same school as it was when he came. There is a tremendous amount more to being an AD then hiring coaches. Yet we have not seen a poor coaching choice, despite not having the funds for competitive salaries. I just do not see the same things you see. This is not the old days where Tressel got anything he wanted. This is reality of sports in a conference, with a scholarship DI football program. We have so many things that will attract and keep recruits that we never even dreamed of before ....especially cla$$es and quarters.
Title: Re: Athletic Budget
Post by: guinpen on November 09, 2021, 10:33:06 AM
The money isnít there due to the state of Youngstown shrinking.  Companies are gone people have moved.  It will take years to get back the football attendance if itís possible.  You diehards are stuck on being a football conference that doesnít fit due to geography economics and fan base. Teams in our divison in football have less expenses smaller stadiums and are making the playoffs.  Being in the MVFC means sh** when you canít compete.  Itís up to the AD to put us in a position for the athletes to be competitive to win.  We have a mediocre AD and the past 15 years we have been mediocre in most sports.  Starts at the top

I for one have no interest in our current league, Was ok when it started as the Gateway but  with WK leaving and the addition of the newer schools things have changed. Not a matter of how good these schools are, they are just too far from us to generate interest. Not to mention the travel costs.
Title: Re: Athletic Budget
Post by: Kandrase on November 09, 2021, 04:07:18 PM
The problem is where do we go? Weíre on an FCS island. The nearby programs are only limited scholarship programs.
Title: Re: Athletic Budget
Post by: IAA Fan on November 10, 2021, 05:04:40 PM
The problem is where do we go? Weíre on an FCS island. The nearby programs are only limited scholarship programs.

Agree. Although the one team/conference is going full scholarship. Something else to consider. I will NEVER be able to go to any kind of weekday games (MAC). Also people will not like the idea of no championship possibility, no matter if we know the teams or not. If we do not know the teams in the MVFC by now, it is our own fault and just do not care to know.

I think the conference split will help and YSU has to just stay the course.
Title: Re: Athletic Budget
Post by: Kandrase on November 10, 2021, 07:03:21 PM
The problem is where do we go? Weíre on an FCS island. The nearby programs are only limited scholarship programs.

Agree. Although the one team/conference is going full scholarship. Something else to consider. I will NEVER be able to go to any kind of weekday games (MAC). Also people will not like the idea of no championship possibility, no matter if we know the teams or not. If we do not know the teams in the MVFC by now, it is our own fault and just do not care to know.

I think the conference split will help and YSU has to just stay the course.

Geography is kinda tough for us, itís like why NDSU wonít go FBSÖ what conference would they join? They are really far away from everyone except for big ten or big twelve schools and NDSU doesnít have the market size or facilities to make a jump to a P5 conference.

, I think a reckoning is coming in college football and now isnít really a good time to move.
Title: Re: Athletic Budget
Post by: guinpen on November 10, 2021, 07:27:06 PM
The problem is where do we go? Weíre on an FCS island. The nearby programs are only limited scholarship programs.

Agree. Although the one team/conference is going full scholarship. Something else to consider. I will NEVER be able to go to any kind of weekday games (MAC). Also people will not like the idea of no championship possibility, no matter if we know the teams or not. If we do not know the teams in the MVFC by now, it is our own fault and just do not care to know.

I think the conference split will help and YSU has to just stay the course.

Geography is kinda tough for us, itís like why NDSU wonít go FBSÖ what conference would they join? They are really far away from everyone except for big ten or big twelve schools and NDSU doesnít have the market size or facilities to make a jump to a P5 conference.

, I think a reckoning is coming in college football and now isnít really a good time to move.

I think that I could live w/o playoffs if the tradeoff was beating the zits, cant and the bobby cats. I agree that if the league goes two  division that would help a little bit. Depends on how many teams from the other division we would have to play each year, the less the better.

I have been saying or at least hoping that there would be a day of reckoning, it is taking longer than I thought but still think it will happen.
Title: Re: Athletic Budget
Post by: IAA Fan on November 11, 2021, 12:10:23 PM
I have heard several names in reference to a split. RMU, EKU and Austin Peay are the names that continue to surface. That is a huge jump for RMU and APSU.
Title: Re: Athletic Budget
Post by: guinpen on November 11, 2021, 01:39:08 PM
is there a place to easily look at the budget for various schools or does it just take some digging?
Title: Re: Athletic Budget
Post by: Kandrase on November 12, 2021, 10:45:02 AM
I have heard several names in reference to a split. RMU, EKU and Austin Peay are the names that continue to surface. That is a huge jump for RMU and APSU.

What do you mean? Split from what
Title: Re: Athletic Budget
Post by: Penguin Nation on November 12, 2021, 11:59:39 AM
2022 will mark YSU's 25th year as a member in the Gateway/MVFC. When we joined there was no team with the name "Dakota" in it. A few years before YSU joining, there were four teams with the name "Illinois" in it (Eastern Illinois left in 1995).

The MVFC is not the conference we joined. Even the name is different. The conference has moved westward and is now dominated by the western schools.

If I were Patty, who will have been commissioner for 40 years (!) in 2022, I'd continue the westward expansion and lure the dominant BSC teams (Griz, EWU, MSU) into the MVFC, and the membership numbers will be able to withstand attrition if the underperforming eastern schools atrophy away.

If I were the CAA, I'd consider YSU as part of its announced expansion, and place YSU in its proposed Northern division. Geographically this would make sense for YSU. However, there seems to be no mention of this, anywhere.

https://richmond.com/sports/college/james-madison/caa-exploring-expansion-two-division-setup-that-would-reduce-travel-costs/article_4ee9823d-9db6-54eb-a34f-d152ab6de602.html

Other options for YSU include the NEC and the moribund OVC. Although there would be undeniable benefits with travel costs, these would represent an official unconditional surrender of the "Team of the 1990s" and we'd simply exist as a program with no expectations of FCS dominance....and maybe that's ok.

Things may look very different soon. I still suspect an Ohio-centered FCS conference is possible when MAC East programs face the realities of basic math. Until then...fire your incompetent AD who will guarantee failure despite whatever opportunities arise....and stay with the big dogs in the MVFC.

Title: Re: Athletic Budget
Post by: guinpen on November 12, 2021, 04:14:32 PM
2022 will mark YSU's 25th year as a member in the Gateway/MVFC. When we joined there was no team with the name "Dakota" in it. A few years before YSU joining, there were four teams with the name "Illinois" in it (Eastern Illinois left in 1995).

The MVFC is not the conference we joined. Even the name is different. The conference has moved westward and is now dominated by the western schools.

If I were Patty, who will have been commissioner for 40 years (!) in 2022, I'd continue the westward expansion and lure the dominant BSC teams (Griz, EWU, MSU) into the MVFC, and the membership numbers will be able to withstand attrition if the underperforming eastern schools atrophy away.

If I were the CAA, I'd consider YSU as part of its announced expansion, and place YSU in its proposed Northern division. Geographically this would make sense for YSU. However, there seems to be no mention of this, anywhere.

https://richmond.com/sports/college/james-madison/caa-exploring-expansion-two-division-setup-that-would-reduce-travel-costs/article_4ee9823d-9db6-54eb-a34f-d152ab6de602.html

Other options for YSU include the NEC and the moribund OVC. Although there would be undeniable benefits with travel costs, these would represent an official unconditional surrender of the "Team of the 1990s" and we'd simply exist as a program with no expectations of FCS dominance....and maybe that's ok.

Things may look very different soon. I still suspect an Ohio-centered FCS conference is possible when MAC East programs face the realities of basic math. Until then...fire your incompetent AD who will guarantee failure despite whatever opportunities arise....and stay with the big dogs in the MVFC.

Nice read,

So how does our budget compare to the CAA?

An Ohio league would be best but unlikely to happen while I am alive. CAA would be better than where we are now. OVC not an option anymore, too much unrest.

We were and always will be the team of the nineties, that can never be taken away, no matter what league we may be in. You can't change history!
Title: Re: Athletic Budget
Post by: Penguin Nation on November 12, 2021, 06:50:57 PM
2022 will mark YSU's 25th year as a member in the Gateway/MVFC. When we joined there was no team with the name "Dakota" in it. A few years before YSU joining, there were four teams with the name "Illinois" in it (Eastern Illinois left in 1995).

The MVFC is not the conference we joined. Even the name is different. The conference has moved westward and is now dominated by the western schools.

If I were Patty, who will have been commissioner for 40 years (!) in 2022, I'd continue the westward expansion and lure the dominant BSC teams (Griz, EWU, MSU) into the MVFC, and the membership numbers will be able to withstand attrition if the underperforming eastern schools atrophy away.

If I were the CAA, I'd consider YSU as part of its announced expansion, and place YSU in its proposed Northern division. Geographically this would make sense for YSU. However, there seems to be no mention of this, anywhere.

https://richmond.com/sports/college/james-madison/caa-exploring-expansion-two-division-setup-that-would-reduce-travel-costs/article_4ee9823d-9db6-54eb-a34f-d152ab6de602.html

Other options for YSU include the NEC and the moribund OVC. Although there would be undeniable benefits with travel costs, these would represent an official unconditional surrender of the "Team of the 1990s" and we'd simply exist as a program with no expectations of FCS dominance....and maybe that's ok.

Things may look very different soon. I still suspect an Ohio-centered FCS conference is possible when MAC East programs face the realities of basic math. Until then...fire your incompetent AD who will guarantee failure despite whatever opportunities arise....and stay with the big dogs in the MVFC.

Nice read,

So how does our budget compare to the CAA?

An Ohio league would be best but unlikely to happen while I am alive. CAA would be better than where we are now. OVC not an option anymore, too much unrest.

We were and always will be the team of the nineties, that can never be taken away, no matter what league we may be in. You can't change history!

Agree about the Ohio FCS league. It's a long shot. Maybe Women's Lacrosse being in the MAC is a step in that direction.

Before we blame the failures of the revenue sports on the budget, according to this source, YSU FB revenue is average for the MVFC.

https://www.inforum.com/bison-media-zone/mens-sports/football/6243728-McFeely-blog-Bison-rank-8th-in-FCS-in-revenue-generated-by-football-according-to-U.S.-Department-of-Education-data

YSU is increasing its Athletic Budget from $13M to $14M.

https://www.wfmj.com/story/45112365/ysu-weighs-in-on-increasing-athletic-budget-amidst-academic-programs-being-cut

Here's CAA Athletic budgets for FB, MBB, and WBB...which seems similar to or less than YSU's budget.

https://richmond.com/sports/college/william-and-mary/caa-budgets-for-football-and-basketball/article_6aa2f8a1-5b23-50b4-a91f-91458f6dd6e6.html

Sure McCafferty trophies are nice...but Youngstown is a FB town with a FB history...and FB generates revenue and Olympic sports spend it even if you factor in the trivial increase in enrollment they create.

Someone correct me if my sources, figures, or conclusions are amiss...but something doesn't smell right.  I'm not seeing that YSU FB is underfunded....just incompetently mismanaged....or worse.


Title: Re: Athletic Budget
Post by: 33Y0 on November 12, 2021, 08:54:11 PM
MVC Average vs YSU Expenditures

Undergrads
MVC: 10,892
YSU: 8,576
Difference: -2,316

Men's Basketball Expenses
MVC: $2.7 million
YSU: $1.7 million
Difference: -$1.0 million

Women's Basketball Expenses
MVC: $1.3 million
YSU: $1.1 million
Difference: -$220,000

Football Expenses
MVC: $5.0 million
YSU: $4.4 million
Difference: -$534,000

Total Expenses
MVC: $20.2 million
YSU: $16.2 million
Difference: -$3.9 million

MAC Average vs YSU

Undergrads
MAC: 14,234
YSU: 8,576
Difference: -5,658

Men's Basketball Expenses
MAC: $2.3 million
YSU: $1.7 million
Difference: -$598,000

Women's Basketball Expenses
MAC: $1.6 million
YSU: $1.1 million
Difference: -$447,000

Football Expenses
MAC: $8.2 million
YSU: $4.4 million
Difference: -$3.8 million

Total Expenses
MAC: $29.4 million
YSU: $16.2 million
Difference: -$13.1 million

Horizon League Average vs YSU

Undergrads
HL: 10,962
YSU: 8,576
Difference: -2,386

Men's Basketball Expenses
HL: $2.4 million
YSU: $1.7 million
Difference: -$771,000

Women's Basketball Expenses
HL: $1.4 million
YSU: $1.1 million
Difference: -$272,000

Total Expenses
HL: $14.5 million
YSU: $16.2 million
Difference: +$1.7 million

League Sponsored Sports
HL: $8.9 million
YSU: $7.6 million
Difference: -$1.2 million
Title: Re: Athletic Budget
Post by: 33Y0 on November 12, 2021, 09:04:09 PM
MVC Average vs YSU Revenue

Total Football Expenses
MVC: $5.0 million
YSU: $4.4 million
Difference: -$534,000

Total Earned Football Revenue
MVC: $1.1 million
YSU: $1.7 million
Difference: +$597,000

% of Earned Income vs Total Expenses
MVC: 23%
YSU: 40%
Difference: +17%

Total Institutional Investment
MVC: $3.8 million
YSU: $2.7 million
Difference: -$1.1 million

Horizon League Men's Basketball Average vs YSU Revenue

Total Men's Basketball Expenses
HL: $2.2 million
YSU: $1.7 million
Difference: -$534,000

Total Earned Men's Basketball Revenue
HL: $581,800
YSU: $666,203
Difference: +$84,403

% of Earned Income vs Total Expenses
HL: 26%
YSU: 39%
Difference: +13%

Total Institutional Investment
HL: $1.6 million
YSU: $1.0 million
Difference: -$618,000

Horizon League - Total vs YSU

Total Athletically Generated Revenue
HL: $2.2 million
YSU: $4.6 million
Difference: +$2.3 million

Total Expenses:
HL: $14.5 million
YSU: $16.2 million
Difference: +$1.7 million

% of Income vs Total Expenses
HL: 16%
YSU: 28%
Difference: +12%

Total Institutional Investment
HL: $12.2 million
YSU: $11.6 million
Difference: -$520,000
Title: Re: Athletic Budget
Post by: Wick250 on November 12, 2021, 09:53:38 PM
Excellent posts this evening. The data provided by 33YO is highly revealing. We clearly generate more revenue and receive less institutional support than our rivals in the two leagues.  You could make the strong argument that, from a financial perspective, we are a model of efficiency for a mid-major athletic program. (Not to be confused with decades of poor personnel decisions.)
Title: Re: Athletic Budget
Post by: Penguin Nation on November 14, 2021, 06:20:50 AM
MVC Average vs YSU Expenditures

Football Expenses
MVC: $5.0 million
YSU: $4.4 million
Difference: -$534,000

a$$uming these figures are accurate (no source link)  with similar data collection methods (Cleveland.com mentioned itís hard to compare these figures as schools have varying data collection methods), and thereís no outlier effect, then YSUís FB expenses are 88% of the average MVFC program?

88% IMO does not explain the debacle of the Strollo era.

Question: Was the ďTeam of the 90sĒ the top funded program in the entire nation in the 1990s?

Title: Re: Athletic Budget
Post by: IAA Fan on November 14, 2021, 10:40:26 AM
MVC Average vs YSU Expenditures

Football Expenses
MVC: $5.0 million
YSU: $4.4 million
Difference: -$534,000

a$$uming these figures are accurate (no source link)  with similar data collection methods (Cleveland.com mentioned itís hard to compare these figures as schools have varying data collection methods), and thereís no outlier effect, then YSUís FB expenses are 88% of the average MVFC program?

88% IMO does not explain the debacle of the Strollo era.

Question: Was the ďTeam of the 90sĒ the top funded program in the entire nation in the 1990s?

Again what do you see is a debacle, I see it as an air of our greatest financial input and our greatest expansion in terms of athletics. Thatís his job and heís exceptionally good at it sorry we donít go to a school that has only football and menís basketball. If youíre only talking football then say that but that does not make him a bad athletic Director
Title: Re: Athletic Budget
Post by: guinpen on December 06, 2021, 08:14:37 PM
Looks like 8 of the 12 schools in the mac will be playing in bowl games this year. Does the school get the money or do they share with  the league? Is it enough money to off-set their money woes?

A bunch of old 1_aa schools made a bowl, doubt the money would make a huge difference for YSU budget if they moved up/
Title: Re: Athletic Budget
Post by: Wick250 on December 06, 2021, 11:28:40 PM
Looks like 8 of the 12 schools in the mac will be playing in bowl games this year. Does the school get the money or do they share with  the league? Is it enough money to off-set their money woes?

A bunch of old 1_aa schools made a bowl, doubt the money would make a huge difference for YSU budget if they moved up/

MAC schools actually lose money by playing in those minor bowls.  Why? Because participating schools are required to purchase x number of tickets to the event.  For a school like Kent with few fans, it turns into a financial loss.  Of course as they bleed money they pound their chests and proclaim how they are BIG TIME. And maybe even the CHAMPIONS of the Lysol Toilet Bowl.
Title: Re: Athletic Budget
Post by: YSUGO on December 07, 2021, 02:30:20 PM
Itís a 3-4 he block of advertising for the uni and the MAC. 
Title: Re: Athletic Budget
Post by: IAA Fan on December 08, 2021, 10:25:38 AM
I find it interesting tha the MAC champion gets a worse bowl than the runner-up. Heck I would lose just to get the better bowl.