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YSU Penguin Athletics => YSU Penguin Athletics => Topic started by: peteonastick on September 19, 2021, 09:15:44 AM

Title: Western Illinois
Post by: peteonastick on September 19, 2021, 09:15:44 AM
62-56! 950 yards pa$$ing in the game?  WTH?  Anyhow - lets get this started.  This is the game to establish the balanced attack of run game and pa$$ game.  If we can give Crenshaw some time, we should be able to get the ball downfield.  Must win at home in the conference! 

GO GUINS!
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: Wick250 on September 19, 2021, 12:31:39 PM
For starters, let's try not to give up a punt return for a touchdown and a kickoff return for a touchdown. Western Illinois will undoubtedly stack the box to stop McLaughlin. We should have single coverage all over the field.  And based on what I watched in the first half yesterday, the WIU secondary can not guard anybody.
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: The YO Show on September 21, 2021, 10:46:32 AM
I listened to that penguin playbook episode last night. Made me pretty happy, I am getting more an more optimistic that DP is the right coach for this job. If nothing else, he definitely said the right things yesterday. Look for us to use the run to setup play action pa$$ this week, also I think this is going to be a good game. Whether we win or not is gonna come down to how well the secondary plays I think.

Go Penguins!
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: YSU1 on September 21, 2021, 12:20:44 PM
This will be a tough game.
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: go guins on September 22, 2021, 09:07:22 AM
This will be a tough game.
From here on, they will ALL be tough!  Our only "easy" game was a incredible comeback, 3 point overtime win!
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: dwj on September 22, 2021, 10:21:56 AM
We need to play better defense.  Our defense was good in the spring but this fall its seems to have taken a step back.  We can't stop the run or the pa$$.  We have talent on defense but I think the coaching is the problem.    3 man fronts puts no pressure on opposing QBs and allows the running backs to get into the second level.  Also covering receivers with LBs is not working.  Especially against UIW that had fast talented receivers. 

Also we need to open up the offense.  Our QB seems capable so give him a game plan that uses his talent.  #8 is talented but will not last long running the ball 25-30 times a game.
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: go guins on September 22, 2021, 11:28:28 AM
We need to play better defense.  Our defense was good in the spring but this fall its seems to have taken a step back.  We can't stop the run or the pa$$.  We have talent on defense but I think the coaching is the problem.    3 man fronts puts no pressure on opposing QBs and allows the running backs to get into the second level.  Also covering receivers with LBs is not working.  Especially against UIW that had fast talented receivers. 

Also we need to open up the offense.  Our QB seems capable so give him a game plan that uses his talent.  #8 is talented but will not last long running the ball 25-30 times a game.
Your a$$essment of needing improved D is right, but Cameron Ward is best I've seen in years, and Big10 just has more talent, so I'm not convinced we are that much worse.  Saturday night will tell.
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: Kandrase on September 22, 2021, 11:49:01 AM
This will be a tough game.
From here on, they will ALL be tough!  Our only "easy" game was a incredible comeback, 3 point overtime win!

To be fair, Incarnate Word is currently 2-1 with 1 win over an FBS opponent. It was a sunbelt team, but 85 scholarships none the less.

Yes, Incarnate word was likely an "easier" opponenet but we shouldn't mistake them for Robert Morris and Duquesne.

But I agree, I don't think any MVFC game is gonna be "easy" even past bottom barrel teams like SIU are really good now
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: YSUFANSINCE1990 on September 22, 2021, 11:58:29 AM
 Incarnate Word will have a good year, they are very explosive offensively.  WIU game is a must win.  Their defense is horrendous.  Offensively they have a good QB and wide outs.
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: Wick250 on September 22, 2021, 03:00:47 PM
Miami rarely loses at home, and teams usually struggle to score against them in their facility.  Yet Michigan State pretty much did whatever they wanted on offense. Incarnate Word can make all but a handful of elite FCS defenses look foolish. After opening with those two, our defensive statistics might not be a proper index to the abilities of this unit. As others have noted, let us see how this defense responds to league competition.
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: peteonastick on September 22, 2021, 04:14:11 PM
Miami rarely loses at home, and teams usually struggle to score against them in their facility.  Yet Michigan State pretty much did whatever they wanted on offense. Incarnate Word can make all but a handful of elite FCS defenses look foolish. After opening with those two, our defensive statistics might not be a proper index to the abilities of this unit. As others have noted, let us see how this defense responds to league competition.

Well said!  My sentiments exactly.  This game is the barometer for the defense.  With UIW we had to use a lot of players - 1st game, running a fast paced offense, we were worn down.  MSU - same thing as we had to try to stop an elite Big10 team in the second game.  I think the run game is going to open up the pa$$ing game - control the game clock, keep their offense off the field and establish long scoring drives will be the key.  Looking forward to what we can do in the conference. D-line has to step it up this game, agains MSU we were in some good positions but missed tackles were an issue.  The conference is what you have prepared for and now is the time to set the tone.

GO GUINS
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: Double ET on September 22, 2021, 09:19:47 PM
Does anyone know why todayís WFMJ Penguin Game day broadcast @ 7:30 pm was not shown?
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: Wick250 on September 22, 2021, 10:57:16 PM
Does anyone know why todayís WFMJ Penguin Game day broadcast @ 7:30 pm was not shown?

7:00 pm. You just missed it.
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: Double ET on September 23, 2021, 05:33:10 AM
Does anyone know why todayís WFMJ Penguin Game day broadcast @ 7:30 pm was not shown?

7:00 pm. You just missed it.
,

Sorry, I meant to say 7 pm. The game show was shown at 7 pm. I just realized that it could be due to last week being the bye week.
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: Penguin Nation on September 23, 2021, 03:44:59 PM
Good Hype vid: https://fb.watch/8cACzTlC5o/
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: The YO Show on September 25, 2021, 04:31:44 AM
Its gameday penguin fans!  fb
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: Kandrase on September 25, 2021, 06:32:48 PM
Well offense looks awesome so far. let's make some defensive adjustments though.
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: ytownchief22 on September 25, 2021, 07:05:41 PM
WIU has the worst defense I've ever seen
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: YSU FAN#34 on September 25, 2021, 07:15:46 PM
Quick poll: what is worse?  Sammarone announcing (calling teams by wrong name/talking over referees), the camera guys, or WIU defense?
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: Double ET on September 25, 2021, 08:33:03 PM
Quick poll: what is worse?  Sammarone announcing (calling teams by wrong name/talking over referees), the camera guys, or WIU defense?
No. Our pa$$ defense. We are self destructing in front of our eyes.
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: goodnews on September 25, 2021, 08:58:55 PM
How does the coaching staff look today?  Or is that too negative for this forum?
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: Dmorton on September 25, 2021, 09:00:48 PM
No offensive coordinator!
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: goodnews on September 25, 2021, 09:04:17 PM
Apparently NO DC either.  Its on the job training at Stambaugh including the head coach.
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: Double ET on September 25, 2021, 09:07:37 PM
Clearly, since day 1, he didnít have an experienced staff.
It seems like they are learning while taking coach 101. We just couldnít make adjustments.
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: goodnews on September 25, 2021, 09:14:36 PM
I wonder if this staff knows that the QB can throw to the TE?
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: YSU FAN#34 on September 25, 2021, 09:15:11 PM
Quick poll: what is worse?  Sammarone announcing (calling teams by wrong name/talking over referees), the camera guys, or WIU defense?
No. Our pa$$ defense. We are self destructing in front of our eyes.

Hahaha fair point.  I asked the question too soon!
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: guinpen on September 25, 2021, 09:18:04 PM
Clearly being out coached so far in the 2nd half. The penalties on WIU first drive in second half and then the int were huge.
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: Double ET on September 25, 2021, 09:26:12 PM
I wonder if this staff knows that the QB can throw to the TE?
I wonder if this staff also knows that you canít hand the ball off to run up the middle on 3rd and 11 and with
nine defenders in the box.
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: Double ET on September 25, 2021, 09:44:32 PM
That WIU poor defense shut us out in the 2rd fall.
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: ytownchief22 on September 25, 2021, 09:47:09 PM
Embarra$$ing. Might be more embarra$$ing than the Butler loss. This is what happens when you hire a high school principal as head coach followed by a bunch of D3 a$$istants. I wouldn't trust these guys to coach high school football. What a joke. Sure glad JT got his guy in there though!
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: YSU FAN#34 on September 25, 2021, 09:49:30 PM
Sucks when coaches lose you the game instead of letting the players decide it.
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: goodnews on September 25, 2021, 09:51:08 PM
I've been saying this all along CHIEF.   
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: guinpen on September 25, 2021, 09:51:25 PM
this one is on the coaching staff, they better get their act together soon
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: goodnews on September 25, 2021, 09:53:14 PM
I'm sorry but this guy is an imposter and has NO business being the head coach.  Say what you want but its embara$$ing.
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: ytownchief22 on September 25, 2021, 09:53:30 PM
The fact Phillips was even hired as head coach is a joke. The guy was a principal and superintendent for 7 years god's sake and wasn't even coaching football. What a complete embarra$$ment.
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: ytownchief22 on September 25, 2021, 09:53:52 PM
THE OFFENSE DID NOT CROSS THE 50 YARD LINE THE ENTIRE 2ND HALF.
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: goodnews on September 25, 2021, 09:56:55 PM
With each coaching replacement the program gets worse.  I'm not even gonna discuss the attendance part of it.  Its over people. 
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: Kandrase on September 25, 2021, 09:59:31 PM
The fact Phillips was even hired as head coach is a joke. The guy was a principal and superintendent for 7 years god's sake and wasn't even coaching football. What a complete embarra$$ment.

Okay, to be fair we didn't hire him straight from being a principle, he was coaching at Cincinnatti before us.
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: Kandrase on September 25, 2021, 10:01:07 PM
But yeah... this was bad
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: Penguin Nick on September 25, 2021, 10:09:20 PM
Curious to see how many people call in to the 5th Quarter Show.  I don't think many people care anymore.  Today was an embarra$$ment of epic proportions.
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: goodnews on September 25, 2021, 10:20:24 PM
THE GREAT EXPERIMENT

Phillips' Coaching Career
1991-92: Youngstown State - Graduate a$$istant
1997-2000: Springfield Local HS - Head Coach
2001-05: Salem HS - Head Coach
2006: Ohio State - Quality Control (Defense)
2007-08: Bowling Green - DE/Recruiting Coord.
2016: Iowa State - Director of Player Personnel
2017: Cincinnati - Special Teams Coordinator/Tight Ends
2018-19: Cincinnati - Running Backs
2020-Present: Youngstown State - Head Coach

PLEASE TELL ME HOW THIS RESUME QUALIFIES HOU TO BE THE HEAD COACH AT YSU?
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: Kandrase on September 25, 2021, 10:26:21 PM
THE GREAT EXPERIMENT

Phillips' Coaching Career
1991-92: Youngstown State - Graduate a$$istant
1997-2000: Springfield Local HS - Head Coach
2001-05: Salem HS - Head Coach
2006: Ohio State - Quality Control (Defense)
2007-08: Bowling Green - DE/Recruiting Coord.
2016: Iowa State - Director of Player Personnel
2017: Cincinnati - Special Teams Coordinator/Tight Ends
2018-19: Cincinnati - Running Backs
2020-Present: Youngstown State - Head Coach

PLEASE TELL ME HOW THIS RESUME QUALIFIES HOU TO BE THE HEAD COACH AT YSU?

Was Tressel's resume any better when came to YSU?
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: ytownchief22 on September 25, 2021, 10:34:35 PM
To not cross the 50 yard line in the entire 2nd half of a college football game is almost impossible to do.... Well not with this pee wee coaching staff!

4th and 1 on your own 35 yard line and you run up the middle with a 170 pound RB too lol.

It's just comical at this point. No wonder anybody hasn't taken this program seriously in years.
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: goodnews on September 25, 2021, 10:42:49 PM
Just stop the Tressel talk. This clown spent 1 year at all of his stops as a NOTHING coach.   I don't blame him, hell I'd take the job too.  I believe JT coached under Bruce OSU and McPherson at Syracuse.  He was young, hungry and YSU had won nothing at the time.  We don't play in a conference that allows you to learn on the job.  Sorry I don't see any similarities.
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: Kandrase on September 25, 2021, 10:44:20 PM
Just stop the Tressel talk. This clown spent 1 year at all of his stops as a NOTHING coach.   I don't blame him, hell I'd take the job too.  I believe JT coached under Bruce OSU and McPherson at Syracuse.  He was young, hungry and YSU had won nothing at the time.  We don't play in a conference that allows you to learn on the job.  Sorry I don't see any similarities.

Eh, you make some good points, I guess I'm just trying to be optimistic
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: The YO Show on September 25, 2021, 10:45:39 PM
The crazy thing is, the gameplan wasn't bad, at least for the first half! Literally not able to make ANY adjustments in the second half though... Boggles the mind
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: GoGuins on September 25, 2021, 11:00:41 PM
With each coaching replacement the program gets worse.  I'm not even gonna discuss the attendance part of it.  Its over people.

Haven't been around in a long time. Is Strollo still making terrible HC hires?
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: gbs20 on September 26, 2021, 06:32:43 AM
1. Is Strollo the one who is actually deciding who the head coach is? 2. Is this a season killing game, where the coaching staff has lost the team? 3. Will the better players make use of the transfer portal to escape this situation and move on to better programs? 4. Is YSU the only program in the country in which being from the area seems to be the major criteria for the head coach?
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: ytownchief22 on September 26, 2021, 06:54:08 AM
Phillips was hand chosen by JT. He wanted the complete opposite of Bo after some of the on and off field debacles that made the university look bad and boy, he sure got his wish. Embarra$$ing...
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: Double ET on September 26, 2021, 08:50:02 AM
This is clearly a coaching issue where coaches have been totally unable to make needed adjustments. We played the entire game as if we didnít have any receivers.
How many teams/games do you know of that an offense scored 35 points in quarter and half and score 0 points for the rest of the game?
This was not due to lack of executions by the players. As I mentioned earlier, calling a play on 3rd and 11 for a 170# half back to run up the middle with 9 defenders in the box was not the fault of the running back.
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: ytownchief22 on September 26, 2021, 08:59:27 AM
This is what happens when you have a coaching staff full of D2 and D3 quality coaches and literal kids who were just playing college football 2 years ago and have never held an a$$istant job ever. Utterly embarra$$ing.
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: Double ET on September 26, 2021, 10:45:37 AM
This is what happens when you have a coaching staff full of D2 and D3 quality coaches and literal kids who were just playing college football 2 years ago and have never held an a$$istant job ever. Utterly embarra$$ing.

This is the result of trying to save $$$.
I am curious if we have the lowest coaching budget in MVFC. However, that might not be case. Otherwise, our PR people from the athletic department would have publicized itÖÖĒwe have the lowest budget, but we have the highest qualityĒ.
When I was the faculty member, I used to hate to hear our marketing department emphasizes that YSU has the the lowest tuition among all the state universities and yet, we have the one of the highest quality education.
It is like walking into a GM dealership when the salesperson the Chevy sparks is the lowest cost vehicle in GM, but it as good as a Cadillac.
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: penguinpower on September 26, 2021, 12:11:21 PM
This is a depth and personnel issue.  He went for it on 4the down for 2 reasons.  1. The defense was on the field for the entire second half.  They were vulnerable and not able to stop them anymore.  2.  If you can't make a single yard when you absolutely need it, then you don't deserve to win the game.

We do not have the depth and the personnel we do have need more development.  It is going to be a long rebuild.  It's going to take time. That was just a step backward.  If you are not threat to throw down field  you cannot win.  They brought everyone, all 11 people within 5 yards of the LOS and dared us to throw.  And we couldn't.  The QB needs a lesson in footwork for sure.

Patience
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: Penguin Nation on September 26, 2021, 12:46:05 PM
The worst HCs in program history still are:

1) Bo Pelini (I doubt he Ďll ever lose this distinction), and
2) Jon (I was handed the team of the 90s and 💩 on it) Heacock

The worst loss in recent program history is still the Butler loss....not to a ďSEC of the FCSĒ team.

Maybe my goals are set too low, but DP hasnít made me disgusted to be a Penguin fan or an alumni. Heís an immense upgrade to the filth that preceded him.

Iíll finish with two questions:

How was the FB program in the decade pre-AD Strollo?

How has it been with Strollo as AD?
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: ytownchief22 on September 26, 2021, 01:02:41 PM
Small time coaches recruiting and calling plays like they are at John Carroll.
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: YSUGO on September 26, 2021, 01:17:28 PM
We pay Dollar General Salaries for our a$$istants.  You get what you pay for.  We struck lightening in the bottle with JT itís not going to happen 35 years later the economics and FCS has changed hell I think the year we won it there was like what 76 fcs teams etc.  Money talks and we donít have it.
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: Penquin68 on September 26, 2021, 01:37:25 PM
I agree that the melt down yesterday was unbelievable and bad. Here is what I see if you want to look at the gla$$ half full. 

Our coaches are young and inexpiernced due to a lack of funding to hire more accomplished coaches. But I recall JT did the same thing with many of his a$$istants. And I recall coach Wolford hiring older experienced defensive coaches on the way down from a bigger program and they failed badly and cost him his job in many ways. The hope is we have good up and coming coaches who can grow into our needs.

Our players are not up to FCS standards in many cases, O and D line in particular. We get no pressure on the opposing QB and they get great pressure on our QB without blizes etc. Many times even with blitzes we don't get to the QB. Our QB has no time to read the field and look down field and we can't run the complex pa$$ patterns that others run against us due to our lack of time in the pocket. We are not recriuting quick fix junior college players. We are trying to recriut high school players that can grow into FCS caliber O and D line players in the future. That is our current strategy. Suffer now for a brighter future. Our last coach left the cubbard bare I think. We will see if this stategy will work for us.

Our QB has potential but I think needs a break.  I would have put in Joe Cracraft in the 4th quarter to give Crenshaw a break from the pressure he was under.

Our play calling was poor in that I could tell what type of play we would run based on down and distance. No surprises by us, everything predictable. Very difficult for our QB to excell under those conditions. We can't depend on number 8 all the time when facing so many defenders up on the line etc. They sell out on the run and are correct most all the time. And can easily cover our recievers one on one. And no motion, just line up and go with predictable runs. And then try to pa$$ in obvious pa$$ing downs.

On the 4th down play at the end, I would have run the QB instead of 8 due to his size and strength. Use 8 as the decoy there. And I would use some 2 back sets with Waid and 8 in at the same time. Have some power and speed for them to content with.

I hope for the best with our current team and coaches. The future will tell if the gla$$ is half full or half empty.
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: goodnews on September 26, 2021, 08:05:06 PM
Honestly, we should've just hired the Slipper Rock head coach (not sure he applied) and his entire staff.  We'd be better off now and in the future.  Its hard to believe the applicants were that weak for the job.   You cant convince me that any of these people will be successful here based on the MVFC schedule.  Please review the experience of the a$$istant coach who is the recruiting coordinator.  Did anyone bother to interview any of these coaches to see what experience they brought to the staff?   

And one last thing, its 2021 there is no such thing as a long rebuild.  You either have it or you don't.  With the transfer portal, 3 years is more then enough time to see if you have the program headed in the right direction.   
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: ucfpengbuck on September 26, 2021, 11:35:12 PM
Last nights game was bad and the way they played getting up 35 -7 had us all thinking maybe we're better than we thought and then the beat down happened.   
I'm not dumping on the coach or staff this season since we all know this is a total rebuild and he needs to up grade in multiple areas.

I like Crenshaw toughness and he's like another running back as a qb but his mechanics are not there yet and I'm hoping with experience he can get to another level.  Not sure he's the guy but there's a lot of football to be played.   

The D-line needs an infusion of speed of the edge.  Hoping for a Derek Rivers type to show up.

  Patience is needed although I understand the emotions of last night debacle.
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: YSUFANSINCE1990 on September 27, 2021, 07:15:29 AM
   When hired Phillips I said his resume did not warrant him getting this job.  He is in way over his head and so is his staff.  As for patience, give me a break.  5 years ago we were in the national title game.  We should not be losing regularly to Indiana St and Western Illinois.  I have a tremendous amount of respect For Jim Tressel as a coach and president of YSU.  But as for hiring coaches, not so much.  He made the call and overruled the committee several years ago to hire John Robic as basketball coach and Robic was a stiff.

 Tressel took the money from Bob Sebo and made this hire, period.   We are a joke, may not win another game.
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: penguinpower on September 27, 2021, 10:34:20 AM
Honestly, we should've just hired the Slipper Rock head coach (not sure he applied) and his entire staff.  We'd be better off now and in the future.  Its hard to believe the applicants were that weak for the job.   You cant convince me that any of these people will be successful here based on the MVFC schedule.  Please review the experience of the a$$istant coach who is the recruiting coordinator.  Did anyone bother to interview any of these coaches to see what experience they brought to the staff?   

And one last thing, its 2021 there is no such thing as a long rebuild.  You either have it or you don't.  With the transfer portal, 3 years is more then enough time to see if you have the program headed in the right direction.   


There is such a thing as a long rebuild.  You have two choices on the athlete that you want to bring in.  The first choice is to get the best of the best high school athletes that can come in and play almost immediately.  Special talent.  The second choice is to bring players in that need to be developed physically but have the potential to be outstanding athletes.  Some of these athletes will become outstanding and many of them will become very good.  The majority of these players are on the offensive and defensive lines.  They are the "projects" to many of the power 5 elite programs. 

This is the type of athlete that Phillips is recruiting.  It is going to take time.  Heacock had a similar system, but he always struggled to get the skill positions.  Philips seems to be able to identify the skilled positions well.  However he needs time to develop the line in the weight room etc. 

We don't have the budget to do it any other way.  My advice is to remain patient.  If Pellini hadn't left the cupboard bare it would have been a hell of a lot easier for Phillips.  Secondly, Pellini left NCAA violations that cost scholarships.  So not only did Phillips have to deal with a bare cupboard, but he also had to deal with NCAA violations.  And I am fairly certain there are other things in play...... regarding some limits that Strollo in the athletic department have placed on Phillips ability to recruit exactly who he wants in the time frame that Philips wants to do it.  Keep in mind there has been significant turnover of Pellini recruits in the last year and a half.  These coaches were also at a disadvantage with the b******* coronavirus cancellations.
It was only 6 months ago that he got first-hand experience on the level of athlete in the conference. 

You have to find a coach that wants this job.  The majority of the great coaches are not going to take it.  There is barely enough money for the a$$istants.  As an a$$istant, this is one of these jobs you take because you are confident that you can make a name for yourself.  It's not about the money.  It's a way to prove that you are a good a$$istant or a bad one and move on to higher paying jobs in FBS.  They aren't going to get all the right people immediately.

Lastly, when I say a slow rebuild, I am talking about a rebuild similar to what Cincinnati did.  A rebuild that's similar to what Iowa state did.  Cincinnati's been building their program for years.  10 years ago they were not competitive with Ohio State. Now they are ranked 8th in the country and they could likely beat Ohio State. Over the last several years Cincinnati has lost their conference championship to UCF.  But the way that Cincinnati has built the program, they ended up on top because it was more fundamentally built on development.  UCF could not beat Cincinnati today and if they did it would be a fluke.  UCF predicated their success on finding the athletes.  Cincinnati developed their player personnel and have a system to put the best players on the field through homegrown means.  That's the essence of a developmental program.  Those programs tend to remain more competitive for longer periods of time. They aren't flash in the pan teams that come out of nowhere and and fade into history.  This is part of why North Dakota State is a perennial power.  Their development of offensive and defensive lineman is second to none. When you have the line play and you mix in a few people with skill then you have the ability to become a machine that produces year in and year out. 

When I say long rebuild, this is what I mean
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: guinpen on September 27, 2021, 10:43:32 AM
PenguinPower

Can you expand on the following?

 And I am fairly certain there are other things in play...... regarding some limits that Strollo in the athletic department have placed on Phillips ability to recruit exactly who he wants in the time frame that Philips wants to do it.
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: penguinpower on September 27, 2021, 10:48:40 AM
PenguinPower

Can you expand on the following?



 And I am fairly certain there are other things in play...... regarding some limits that Strollo in the athletic department have placed on Phillips ability to recruit exactly who he wants in the time frame that Philips wants to do it.


Let me just say that Phillips isn't going to purge the program like the SEC does with one year scholarships because it isn't fair to the athletes.....even if he wanted to do it   That's not the way YSU rolls.   If you can read between the lines on that.
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: The YO Show on September 27, 2021, 11:01:34 AM
Honestly, we should've just hired the Slipper Rock head coach (not sure he applied) and his entire staff.  We'd be better off now and in the future.  Its hard to believe the applicants were that weak for the job.   You cant convince me that any of these people will be successful here based on the MVFC schedule.  Please review the experience of the a$$istant coach who is the recruiting coordinator.  Did anyone bother to interview any of these coaches to see what experience they brought to the staff?   

And one last thing, its 2021 there is no such thing as a long rebuild.  You either have it or you don't.  With the transfer portal, 3 years is more then enough time to see if you have the program headed in the right direction.   


There is such a thing as a long rebuild.  You have two choices on the athlete that you want to bring in.  The first choice is to get the best of the best high school athletes that can come in and play almost immediately.  Special talent.  The second choice is to bring players in that need to be developed physically but have the potential to be outstanding athletes.  Some of these athletes will become outstanding and many of them will become very good.  The majority of these players are on the offensive and defensive lines.  They are the "projects" to many of the power 5 elite programs. 

This is the type of athlete that Phillips is recruiting.  It is going to take time.  Heacock had a similar system, but he always struggled to get the skill positions.  Philips seems to be able to identify the skilled positions well.  However he needs time to develop the line in the weight room etc. 

We don't have the budget to do it any other way.  My advice is to remain patient.  If Pellini hadn't left the cupboard bare it would have been a hell of a lot easier for Phillips.  Secondly, Pellini left NCAA violations that cost scholarships.  So not only did Phillips have to deal with a bare cupboard, but he also had to deal with NCAA violations.  And I am fairly certain there are other things in play...... regarding some limits that Strollo in the athletic department have placed on Phillips ability to recruit exactly who he wants in the time frame that Philips wants to do it.  Keep in mind there has been significant turnover of Pellini recruits in the last year and a half.  These coaches were also at a disadvantage with the b******* coronavirus cancellations.
It was only 6 months ago that he got first-hand experience on the level of athlete in the conference. 

You have to find a coach that wants this job.  The majority of the great coaches are not going to take it.  There is barely enough money for the a$$istants.  As an a$$istant, this is one of these jobs you take because you are confident that you can make a name for yourself.  It's not about the money.  It's a way to prove that you are a good a$$istant or a bad one and move on to higher paying jobs in FBS.  They aren't going to get all the right people immediately.

Lastly, when I say a slow rebuild, I am talking about a rebuild similar to what Cincinnati did.  A rebuild that's similar to what Iowa state did.  Cincinnati's been building their program for years.  10 years ago they were not competitive with Ohio State. Now they are ranked 8th in the country and they could likely beat Ohio State. Over the last several years Cincinnati has lost their conference championship to UCF.  But the way that Cincinnati has built the program, they ended up on top because it was more fundamentally built on development.  UCF could not beat Cincinnati today and if they did it would be a fluke.  UCF predicated their success on finding the athletes.  Cincinnati developed their player personnel and have a system to put the best players on the field through homegrown means.  That's the essence of a developmental program.  Those programs tend to remain more competitive for longer periods of time. They aren't flash in the pan teams that come out of nowhere and and fade into history.  This is part of why North Dakota State is a perennial power.  Their development of offensive and defensive lineman is second to none. When you have the line play and you mix in a few people with skill then you have the ability to become a machine that produces year in and year out. 

When I say long rebuild, this is what I mean

I get all that, and I am still pro DP, at least right now, but the thing I can't forgive is the lack of coaching adjustment in the second half. We did not need to beat WIU with long pa$$es, we just needed a quick short / screen pa$$ game and we didn't run that. I think things will come together down the run, but I am concerned about the coordinators ability to coach at the level needed here. Which, is an easier fix right? Just get new coordinators.
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: The YO Show on September 27, 2021, 11:02:43 AM
In terms of everything else you said with player development, totally agree. I think that may have been why DP quit mid spring season, to try to get that weight room time (what little was left). I am thinking next year after a true offseason and weight room time and more recruiting we will be much better. I am still optimistic for the future, this year will be really rough though.
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: guinpen on September 27, 2021, 11:07:37 AM
PenguinPower

Can you expand on the following?



 And I am fairly certain there are other things in play...... regarding some limits that Strollo in the athletic department have placed on Phillips ability to recruit exactly who he wants in the time frame that Philips wants to do it.


Let me just say that Phillips isn't going to purge the program like the SEC does with one year scholarships because it isn't fair to the athletes.....even if he wanted to do it   That's not the way YSU rolls.   If you can read between the lines on that.

Thanks
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: YSU1 on September 27, 2021, 01:00:51 PM
that mill whistle they blow during the game is annoying
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: Penguin Nation on September 27, 2021, 01:23:44 PM
Playing the long game is fine. Speaking for myself, I'll tolerate losing seasons for years to come, as long as the program conducts itself with cla$$.

The problem is that the Athletic Department is incompetent, and I mean incompetent in a legendary way. Supporting factors such as scheduling, funding, promotion will all be sabotaged by this ineptitude.

As long as Strollo is there...what you see is what will continue...and he is likely there for another 15 years....and then after he's retired, maybe you rebuild...or maybe you again hire another incompetent who's there for decades.

Also, the play calling gives the impression of a fear to play the game, and even a lack of understanding of basics like clock management and the need to adjust/respond to your opponents adjustments. I like DP...but IDK if someone who (or who's coordinators) call plays like that can upgrade enough to be an MVFC contender.
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: YSUinBoston on September 27, 2021, 02:58:20 PM
It is too early to kill Phillips entirely.  This is obviously a less than ideal situation to start rebooting a college program.

That said----the school would do well to not make being from NE Ohio the A#1 top priority in hiring decisions.  I mean, the second choice was a high school coach, right?  Was Super Fan not available?
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: GoGuins on September 27, 2021, 03:59:04 PM
It is too early to kill Phillips entirely.  This is obviously a less than ideal situation to start rebooting a college program.

That said----the school would do well to not make being from NE Ohio the A#1 top priority in hiring decisions.  I mean, the second choice was a high school coach, right?  Was Super Fan not available?

Superfan.....is he still around? If so, has to be pretty old
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: ytownchief22 on September 27, 2021, 04:18:20 PM
Money is the reason Phillips got hired, not resume. This program is dormant.
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: goodnews on September 27, 2021, 04:58:40 PM
Maybe we hire Strollos wife to succeed him as AD.  She sure seemed to climb the pay scale with no experience.
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: IAA Fan on September 27, 2021, 05:24:00 PM
It is too early to kill Phillips entirely.  This is obviously a less than ideal situation to start rebooting a college program.

That said----the school would do well to not make being from NE Ohio the A#1 top priority in hiring decisions.  I mean, the second choice was a high school coach, right?  Was Super Fan not available?

Superfan.....is he still around? If so, has to be pretty old

yes superfan tailgates next to us and he is there both games this year.

In terms of Strollo. Why does everyone think we have such a crispy/squeaky program that we can hire anyone we want and the best a their positions? We have things that are set & always going to be set. There is no AD on the planet that will come in here, play the game, (which includes keep his mouth shut), for the dollars we pay Strollo. There is no need to even look. Anyone that does know how to play the game as well as RS is seasoned with paycheck demands beyond well beyond YSU.

As to the game:

1. I hope all of you Crenshaw people see what he is. A player too short to pa$$ at the DI level. I would say that at least half of his pa$$es were tipped, with 6 being either a disaster, or near disaster. WIU played a balanced Montana and only managed 9 first-downs and no offensive TD's. Montana will be middle of the pack in their conference. We needed to do 2 things this past weekend to prevent a total collapse.
A) Go to true Wildcat to get some running yards.
B) get a receiving TE out there so Crenshaw has a bigger target to get some throwing yards.
So what happened? Does anyone else realize we never even crossed the 50 in the entire second half?

2. We show no signs of game planning, let alone adjust. Everyone knew that when this team gave up the TD late in Q2, this team was going to collapse.

3. Let's not keep saying about how good the team we played is, just because we get beat or play close. Last week there was one good player and WIU had maybe 3.

4. Only certain types of coaches can move a team in a different direction (ie: our clear attempt to become Cinci) and still perform with the players you inherited. This staff just does not have that ability. You have to interject players as you get them. In the mean time you are going to play much of the same style as your predecessor .

5. Also if I hear about how young our team is, I am going to get ill. This team had winter practice last year, half of a season against regular opposition in spring, workouts in the summer, fall camp. There is no team in YSU history with as much prep time going into a season. Yes everyone else has just the same, but that just goes to show how ill-prepared we are.
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: YSUGO on September 27, 2021, 09:33:34 PM
Donít you think Crenshaws throwing motion and footwork are an issue it took like he is throwing side arm and straight arming his throws.  You would of thought we could have worked that out by now
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: goodnews on September 27, 2021, 10:23:19 PM
This is a vicious cycle.  We have a QB who struggles with the ability to throw to his WRs and stretch the field.  Therefore you will struggle to recruit WRs.  Who on the staff has the experience recruiting and developing a QB at this level?
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: penguinpower on September 28, 2021, 06:07:31 AM
Donít you think Crenshaws throwing motion and footwork are an issue it took like he is throwing side arm and straight arming his throws.  You would of thought we could have worked that out by now


Yes.  This is a big problem.  His footwork is bad and he's always throwing off his back foot
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: YSUFANSINCE1990 on September 28, 2021, 08:12:51 AM
  Good points on who is coaching up Crenshaw, and why give up on Waid so quickly.  Listened to radio show la$$t night, Bob Hannon asked Phillips if he considered going with Joe Craycraft in the 4th quarter, and Phillips said no.  How could you not at least consider making a change.
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: 33Y0 on September 28, 2021, 08:37:01 AM
  Good points on who is coaching up Crenshaw, and why give up on Waid so quickly.  Listened to radio show la$$t night, Bob Hannon asked Phillips if he considered going with Joe Craycraft in the 4th quarter, and Phillips said no.  How could you not at least consider making a change.

Waid is lucky if he can throw it 20 yards downfield and Craycraft is lucky if he can hit a guy wide open. That's why.
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: YSUFANSINCE1990 on September 28, 2021, 10:25:34 AM
33, what have you seen from Crenshaw to think he can?
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: 33Y0 on September 28, 2021, 11:05:30 AM
33, what have you seen from Crenshaw to think he can?
Here's the way I look at this situation.. this is a rebuilding season, no way around it. We're not looking to make the playoffs this season. Craycraft is a senior and we know what we have with him... a guy who has an arm but has zero accuracy. Waid doesn't have an arm, there's no other way around it. We've seen that first hand. Crenshaw has played all of three games and is a freshman. Let the kid play and see what he has. We already know this season is a wash anyways, so it's better to give this kid time to develop and if at the end of the season he hasn't shown improvement, then you know going into next season what we do and don't have. If you sit the guy after three games, one of which was against Michigan State, what are you really doing to develop the kid? Let him take his lumps. This isn't Ohio State where you have two or three five star guys behind him. Be patient with him. I'm not saying he's the answer, but Craycraft isn't the future, and Waid... we've already been there, done that.
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: Penguinesallin on September 28, 2021, 11:41:03 AM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.maxpreps.com/m/news/CGoDuxmbKkGbrk4W_CX6jg/high-school-football--trevor-lawrence,-kyler-murray-among-top-50-career-offense-leaders.htm%3famp=1
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: Penguinesallin on September 28, 2021, 11:41:55 AM
Waid  is 16th on the list the kid can throw!!!
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: Kandrase on September 28, 2021, 04:51:46 PM
Waid  is 16th on the list the kid can throw!!!

his 4,000 rushing yards helped quite a bit too though lol
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: Penguinesallin on September 28, 2021, 04:58:24 PM
Waid  is 16th on the list the kid can throw!!!

his 4,000 rushing yards helped quite a bit too though lol

Thatís called a Dual Threat QB
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: IAA Fan on September 28, 2021, 06:06:37 PM
It is just clear to me that Phillips is going the route of changing the team immediately and letting them struggle and eventually work into the system. Which is fine if you have 3-4 years to wait. Wolford tried it and he just never made it in time to keep his job. (although he handicapped himself with a lousy DC initially) Maybe I am just impatient and/or want a coach we cannot afford. Both of these are probably true to a degree.
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: goodnews on September 28, 2021, 09:43:23 PM
These people cant possibly fill the shoes of Wolford in recruiting.  He had a very good OL and Hess at QB (inherited).  Athletes all over the field and a number of marque wins.  Had he been allowed to stay things would probably be different. 
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: guinpen on September 29, 2021, 10:50:36 AM
It is just clear to me that Phillips is going the route of changing the team immediately and letting them struggle and eventually work into the system. Which is fine if you have 3-4 years to wait. Wolford tried it and he just never made it in time to keep his job. (although he handicapped himself with a lousy DC initially) Maybe I am just impatient and/or want a coach we cannot afford. Both of these are probably true to a degree.

I think that Wolford was a decent recruiter and agree that his DC was a big handicap.  No one wants to wait 2-4 years to be great team, maybe DP is the guy maybe he is not, it is a killer to wait years to find out.

I just cannot understand why money is always an issue at YSU and not at other schools in our league, do we fund differently? Would a second money game make the difference?

Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: YSUGO on September 29, 2021, 12:59:24 PM
I never said Crenshaw canít be the answer.  But he is missing short and long and his throwing mechanics are bad.  I guess thatís why he wasnít a 5 star recruit lol.  Teams are not going to let up.  Letís get it fixed. 
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: Penguinesallin on September 29, 2021, 02:22:40 PM
Crenshaw wasn't being recruited as a QB. he didn't have any offers in 2019 and just YSU in 2020.  Athletic kid but need to be a  RB.
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: ytownchief22 on September 29, 2021, 03:04:45 PM
Crenshaw wasn't being recruited as a QB. he didn't have any offers in 2019 and just YSU in 2020.  Athletic kid but need to be a  RB.

Incorrect
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: 33Y0 on September 29, 2021, 03:55:11 PM
Crenshaw wasn't being recruited as a QB. he didn't have any offers in 2019 and just YSU in 2020.  Athletic kid but need to be a  RB.

Yeah, that's just completely false. If I'm not mistaken, he had offers from Kentucky, Cincinnati, Toledo, Louisville, Kent State, Georgia Tech, Akron, Boston College, and Indiana. Now, of course, many of those offers wanted him to play as an athlete, but to say that he didn't have any offers is just false.
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: Penguinesallin on September 29, 2021, 04:03:47 PM
look it up its on 247sports.com.  I never said he didnt have offer just nothing after his sophomore year until the offer from YSU. I was just going by the 247sport time line.
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: Double ET on September 29, 2021, 04:42:38 PM
Crenshaw wasn't being recruited as a QB. he didn't have any offers in 2019 and just YSU in 2020.  Athletic kid but need to be a  RB.
If I recall, he came here because we offered him as QB where other teams did not.
If we put him as RB or DB, he wonít stay. He came here to play QB.
The kid only played 3 games. Let us donít throw in the towel yet. Bring in a good QB coach to work with him. The way I look at it, if we couldnít make any significant improvements on both side of the ball, we probably will need to need some new a$$istant coaches anyway.
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: peteonastick on September 29, 2021, 04:52:07 PM
Ok - I stewed long enough.  It is a rebuild - we knew that coming in to the season.  The key is to find bright spots on offense and defense and build on those and continue to coach up areas of weakness. One thing I do know...if a QB doesn't have time to throw a 5 or 7 step drop pa$$ that some of you are complaining about - I don't care who is back at QB - it will be a mess.  I don't think we are at the point for Crenshaw to audible out of blitzes and recognize coverages yet.  That comes with experience. 

You want to stretch a defense - first you have to have the time to drop 5 steps, let the receivers get into the patterns and throw it.  When you can't drop back 5 or 7 because the defense is in your face, then forget throwing the deep ball.  This is Crenshaws third game in the toughest conference in the division.  We are rebuilding and O-line from nothing and Penislini left 0 depth at any position on the lines.  These games are exhausting with the new offenses and you need to be able to sub players that have the ability to get the job done - we are not there yet!  I still am a DP fan and like what he is doing...give him time.  Now we go on the road to UNI - anything can happen in this league!!

GO GUINS
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: admin on September 29, 2021, 05:20:23 PM
It is just clear to me that Phillips is going the route of changing the team immediately and letting them struggle and eventually work into the system. Which is fine if you have 3-4 years to wait. Wolford tried it and he just never made it in time to keep his job. (although he handicapped himself with a lousy DC initially) Maybe I am just impatient and/or want a coach we cannot afford. Both of these are probably true to a degree.

I think that Wolford was a decent recruiter and agree that his DC was a big handicap.  No one wants to wait 2-4 years to be great team, maybe DP is the guy maybe he is not, it is a killer to wait years to find out.

I just cannot understand why money is always an issue at YSU and not at other schools in our league, do we fund differently? Would a second money game make the difference?

I think the money issue is everywhere Guinpen. Think about it. Coach H was paid as high as $199k (I think just under. He was popular, so he was a part of several ad campaigns that gave a bit extra...but not much. (Leave in 2009). Now come Coach W with a salary in the low-to-mid $200k range. (Leaves in 2015) Then comes a big money coach in coach P. Now he did not need the money, but I think he had about $300k+ when they renewed. He left last year. Now BO was almost $1mil (with more than that is perks) when he was at Nebraska. Now had he been looking for his best opportunity, he would not have been here and CERTAINLY would not have taken such a small amount. He got 1mil as an OC after he left YSU. So you see where the talent value spread lies. A good coach can demand top dollars. We have to find someone that can do the job on the low end of that scale.

So we have to take a high-end guy with problems, or a low-end guy with no/little experience and potential
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: HLecter on September 30, 2021, 11:02:22 AM
Iím in the let Crenshaw hopefully develop camp.

On an un related noteÖÖ.do the new NIL rules apply to our division?

Instead of giving coaches cars, maybe a local car dealer could dangle an Escalade or whatever the hot new ride is to a stud QB recruit?

Just almost joking

Where is Mickey Monus when you need him?
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: 33Y0 on September 30, 2021, 11:56:11 AM
Iím in the let Crenshaw hopefully develop camp.

On an un related noteÖÖ.do the new NIL rules apply to our division?

Instead of giving coaches cars, maybe a local car dealer could dangle an Escalade or whatever the hot new ride is to a stud QB recruit?

Just almost joking

Where is Mickey Monus when you need him?
Jaleel actually just became the first Penguin on our football team to sign a NIL deal. He's signed with J Arnold Wealth Management. I don't think the amount has been disclosed, but I think he'll be doing some commercials, billboards, and other general advertising for the company. Good for Jaleel. Great kid.
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: Wick250 on September 30, 2021, 02:19:11 PM
Those of you who are out-of-town probably missed this, but we have an oral commitment from another dual threat local quarterback. We don't know if he can succeed at this level because he plays in an awful league against terrible competition.  However, unlike Crenshaw, he has been taught proper throwing technique by his father from the moment he first picked up a football. I have no idea if Brungard's kid is the long-range solution or just another public relations ploy.
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: Penguinesallin on September 30, 2021, 04:01:44 PM
Blows my mind that people are ok with giving Crenshaw a chance even though his footwork is bad and he has poor throwing form but not Waid. I just don't get it. I watched  every game last year and Waid was running for his life because of our young O-line. Waid is just as strong a runner and a better pa$$ than Crenshaw not to mention waid has the size.. I do believe our O-line is better than in the spring and we have better WR. I also  heard WAID was working with Greg Frey through out the summer and was doing great. I just dont think these coaches have a clue when it comes to QB.
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: Wick250 on September 30, 2021, 05:57:03 PM
Blows my mind that people are ok with giving Crenshaw a chance even though his footwork is bad and he has poor throwing form but not Waid. I just don't get it. I watched  every game last year and Waid was running for his life because of our young O-line. Waid is just as strong a runner and a better pa$$ than Crenshaw not to mention waid has the size.. I do believe our O-line is better than in the spring and we have better WR. I also  heard WAID was working with Greg Frey through out the summer and was doing great. I just dont think these coaches have a clue when it comes to QB.

Didn't Waid sustain an injury to his shoulder during fall camp? Perhaps he just can't throw right now. If he is 100% healthy, I agree with you.
Title: Re: Western Illinois
Post by: Penguinesallin on September 30, 2021, 07:11:04 PM
Waid hurt his left shoulder not throwing shoulder. Thatís why he didnít play last game in sprint. From what I understand he did really well in the 2 scrimmages and camp.