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YSU Penguin Athletics => YSU Penguin Athletics => Topic started by: IAA Fan on November 27, 2016, 12:56:24 PM
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Okay here is a thread for the topic. A few things:
1. People need to be shamed, because if they know they have to come and do not ...then they are ashamed of themselves. Religion, real leaders and other institutions have done it for years.
2. Newspapers deal with the common reality ...HS in the Mahoning and Shenago Valley's is King. HS prep is the glory of so many people in blue collar communities, as they never went to college, so there is no loyalty. All local media has an obligation to treat YSU football as King ...until it is. Just as national media does with civil and social issues ...shove it down people's throats until it becomes a mindset. Then it can be marketed and sold at a profit.
3. I worked in media in my youth and we hated PSA's takes too much time and money. Now groups like the ASPCA pay TV stations tons of $$$ to show crying dogs while crying Irish females sign background music. Then they all write it off their taxes at a great profit. YSU is no PSA, but it could be and certainly should be treated like one ...by the media being guilted into doing it as well.
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Marketing, marketing, marketing.
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YSU had the largest attendance out of the 8 games that were played--Thanksgiving week,Ohio State game,cold weather with the possibility of rain,and apathy all played a part in keeping attendance down. >:( :(
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Everyone is failing to see one important thing. The loges were packed and that is where the money is. As well as the die hard fans like us that sat in the stands cheering. Even with as scarce as it was yesterday the University I can assure didn't lose money even after bidding to host yesterday.
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1. I dont believe YSU bids to host. Hosting is now determined by seeding. Back in the 90s that wasnt the case. I could be wrong though.
2. Shaming isnt going to work. People dont have an obligation to support a sports team any more than any other form of entertainment. If they think its worth their while they will show up, if not, no.
3. Sports are becoming like movies. The big time attractions will draw. Smaller attractions wont as much. THere is too much available on TV that the market is saturated. Maybe the bar ought to be lowered. If the crowd yesterday was the best of the 8 games, that says something about the interest in FCS football.
4. THere is a lag effect at work. Interest has been killed. It will take consistent winning to become an attraction. The Indians suffer from a lag too. NExt year will be better for them, but this year they suffered from being mediocre for so long.
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I remember when I was younger during the Tressel years there would be standing room only tickets in the end zones that how packed it would get. And that was without the 2nd side. Sad unfortunately most of the YSU fans probably died or left the area. People in Youngstown could probably careless. Also it doesn't seem like the students care either.
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There have been many intelligent comments about attendance spread across several threads on this site in the last day. I subscribe to the school of thought that technology has changed the fan bases forever, and that the numbers of the 90s will never be matched.
Nevertheless, to address the topic of this thread, here is my suggestion. Eliminate all university positions associated with ticket sales and marketing. The incompetence has been legendary. Then take the money saved from salaries, pension funding, health care premiums, and the sums allocated by the university to athletic marketing and do one of two things.
First, hire a professional marketing firm. Pay them a modest fixed sum and allow them to take a portion of every ticket sold in football and basketball. Their livelihood would depend upon performance. That is certainly not the case now.
Second, and my personal preference, turn sales and marketing over to our business school. Have internships where graduate students and upperclassmen would handle all the functions currently performed by athletic department staff. In addition to their internship stipends, allow these students to keep a portion of the sales. They are aspiring capitalists and that would ensure maximum dedication to the task at hand.
One thing is for sure. Maintain the status quo and expect the same results from the past twenty years....nothing.
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There have been many intelligent comments about attendance spread across several threads on this site in the last day. I subscribe to the school of thought that technology has changed the fan bases forever, and that the numbers of the 90s will never be matched.
Nevertheless, to address the topic of this thread, here is my suggestion. Eliminate all university positions associated with ticket sales and marketing. The incompetence has been legendary. Then take the money saved from salaries, pension funding, health care premiums, and the sums allocated by the university to athletic marketing and do one of two things.
First, hire a professional marketing firm. Pay them a modest fixed sum and allow them to take a portion of every ticket sold in football and basketball. Their livelihood would depend upon performance. That is certainly not the case now.
Second, and my personal preference, turn sales and marketing over to our business school. Have internships where graduate students and upperclassmen would handle all the functions currently performed by athletic department staff. In addition to their internship stipends, allow these students to keep a portion of the sales. They are aspiring capitalists and that would ensure maximum dedication to the task at hand.
One thing is for sure. Maintain the status quo and expect the same results from the past twenty years....nothing.
I have to completely agree with this. Marketing is lacking.
One thing I noticed a while ago, I haven't lived in Youngstown area in 18 years, but when I do go home during football season they barely mention YSU on local news. Typically just during the sports time and just for a few minutes at best. Now that we moved to Columbus last year, from San Diego, all the news stations talk Ohio State and a lot of the times its the opening news story. Now I see why people are obsessed with Ohio State down here.
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1. I dont believe YSU bids to host. Hosting is now determined by seeding. Back in the 90s that wasnt the case. I could be wrong though.
Sorry, but you are wrong. You guys hosted yesterday because you outbid Samford. Unless neither team submitted a bid, in which case I have no idea how the NCAA determines the host site.
Only the top eight teams in the tournament field are seeded, and games involving those teams are determined by seeding. The rest are paired in the first round with an eye toward geography, with the site determined by the bid. Here's an interview with last year's selection committee chairman that explains the process pretty well: http://thefcswedge.com/the-fcs-wedge/the-fcs-wedge-2016-1117-fcs-selection-process-mark-wilson/
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There have been many intelligent comments about attendance spread across several threads on this site in the last day. I subscribe to the school of thought that technology has changed the fan bases forever, and that the numbers of the 90s will never be matched.
Nevertheless, to address the topic of this thread, here is my suggestion. Eliminate all university positions associated with ticket sales and marketing. The incompetence has been legendary. Then take the money saved from salaries, pension funding, health care premiums, and the sums allocated by the university to athletic marketing and do one of two things.
First, hire a professional marketing firm. Pay them a modest fixed sum and allow them to take a portion of every ticket sold in football and basketball. Their livelihood would depend upon performance. That is certainly not the case now.
Second, and my personal preference, turn sales and marketing over to our business school. Have internships where graduate students and upperclassmen would handle all the functions currently performed by athletic department staff. In addition to their internship stipends, allow these students to keep a portion of the sales. They are aspiring capitalists and that would ensure maximum dedication to the task at hand.
One thing is for sure. Maintain the status quo and expect the same results from the past twenty years....nothing.
Agree 100% with this.
ALSO JUST KEEP WINNING
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We were packing them in in the 90's because we were winning year after year and it was new for us to win.
Tres came in and changed everything.
To get back to that we need to start winning for a couple of years and redefine this team. Won't happen overnight
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Mid level football or any mid level college sport, is a hard sale in any market unless you are the big show in the state. With that said steady winning seasons won't hurt.
Local media does a poor job, YSU should ALWAYS be the lead/main story - period. Leading with a high school story just sends the message that YSU is second rate.
I agree with the post that suggested that anyone with anything to do with marketing at YSU needs to go. Just not getting the job done, take the money and hire a firm that knows what they are doing.
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I think JaxSinfonian is correct here ...it is all bid. However, they do take into account attendance on televised games. Also your attendance is part of your bid now. A small college may have the funds to buy a game, but if their opponent has better attendance on a televised game, then they will ask the team with the larger attendance to increase their bid. Also, if there is national television, you need to take into account the ability of a school to support this; size, boxes, lighting etc. You would be surprised, the vast majority of I-AA/FCS schools do not meet these requirements. We just met the national championship-level night broadcast lighting requirements last year.
Take these things into account when you mindlessly attack your administration. It is a complex job and very specialized.
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1. People need to be shamed
If you resort to promoting your product by shaming your market, then your product must really suck.
IDK that this is a priority to the University. As mentioned already, maybe they are content with loge and ad revenue. Even this could be maximized further. Construction will begin on the East stands soon. Seating that is enclosed/partially enclosed could be created and sold for a higher rate. This could take all forms from simple protection from the elements to larger seats with dedicated restrooms and concessions...much like a club level, but without the tables, couches, and roominess of a loge.
The obvious: 1) Win. Winners win. 2) scheduling teams that fans care about. IMO, an away MAC game would increase home attendance. It would create buzz and minimize the notion that YSU is sub-MAC. 3) Involve the students.
It can't just be about FB anymore. You need the soft fan who just wants to have fun on a Saturday, or the spouse who'd rather be shopping. You may convert them into fans. It's about the experience, feelz, and thrills. You've got to be the best show in town. If its about sitting in the rain watching a team from the Dakotas than forget it. You need to go big. I suggested a jumbo screen for the tOSU/MI game. Call it the "Biggest Ohio FB tailgate party". Have notable tOSU alumni there..I suspect JT knows a few. Have bands perform. Have a MSB reunion concert before the game. Get local celebrities to talk at halftime. Make the team entrance more grand. Raffles. Prizes. My wife and I own a biz and we are approached weekly to exchange services to be raffled in exchange for advertising. It's a win-win for all involved. As Wick wisely notes, all jobs should have incentive pay. Any employer that doesn't offer incentive pay deserves poor employee performance.
On social media this morning...days after the game, I still read posts admonishing the local citizenry for not purchasing a product. It's mental sloth, and frankly, it's going to piss ppl off and drive them away. Stop feeling entitled to other ppl's time and money. F'in earn it.
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I think Nation is 100% correct on this. If you have to shame someone to come, then the product must suck. I don't think our product sucks, so it seems like positive reinforcement is a better avenue of approach. Obviously word of mouth is the best advertising for anything. First thing is for each of us to talk it up! Second is making the product visible. We have had what 3 games on TV live in the last 5 years? Anybody think the local media is doing us right on this? I’ve seen more Maryland high school games broadcast than YSU games! Tressel and the athletic administration needs to really get to work on this aspect. Third, we need to keep winning. Nothing like winning to promote attendance.
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Nation you contradict yourself. Yes it is all about the "soft fan". So what does scheduling an away MAC school (most which will defeat us) have to do with that? The soft fan is happy only when we play WVA & OSU ... they even complain about Pitt. They want to win yet.
I could not be more against the support of OSU. Nothing like telling them not to go to the YSU and just sit out in the lots and party. Not to mention the amount of money it will take to put on this event ...assuming tOSU does not want thousands of $$$ to broadcast it publicly. Unless they are local; who cares about noted OSU alum? Even then, the casual fans is going want to know why they did not choose to play at YSU. It takes knowledge (that the soft fan does not have) to realize the differences in talent. Then there is the disgusting amount of OSU gear floating around ...probably required sales of this merchandise even.
How about free tickets with the purchase of YSU gear (assume it is legal)? Why don't we just start with having the existing fans bring spouses, children, other friends and family? Enhance the kids area, invite more local restaurants. These things are affordable.
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Nation you contradict yourself. Yes it is all about the "soft fan". So what does scheduling an away MAC school (most which will defeat us) have to do with that? The soft fan is happy only when we play WVA & OSU ... they even complain about Pitt. They want to win yet.
I could not be more against the support of OSU. Nothing like telling them not to go to the YSU and just sit out in the lots and party. Not to mention the amount of money it will take to put on this event ...assuming tOSU does not want thousands of $$$ to broadcast it publicly. Unless they are local; who cares about noted OSU alum? Even then, the casual fans is going want to know why they did not choose to play at YSU. It takes knowledge (that the soft fan does not have) to realize the differences in talent. Then there is the disgusting amount of OSU gear floating around ...probably required sales of this merchandise even.
How about free tickets with the purchase of YSU gear (assume it is legal)? Why don't we just start with having the existing fans bring spouses, children, other friends and family? Enhance the kids area, invite more local restaurants. These things are affordable.
Did you know YSU is ranked #3 in Sagarin in OH behind tOSU and Toledo? Can't was beat by a MEAC school. What is your rationale that we would be defeated by a MAC school?
It's about flipping a negative into a positive. Make tOSU an asset rather than a liability. Would some who attend "Ohio's greatest tailgate party" just outside of Stambaugh not attend the YSU game? Prolly some...but if 25% do...a low figure in my estimation...than that's a win.
Enhancing the kids area is a good idea. My daughter attends FAU. It's like a carnival atmosphere pre-game.
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Sagarin ratings:
89 Youngstown State
Entire MAC east:
93 Ohio
112 Miami-Ohio
124 Akron
133 Bowling Green
140 Kent State
175 Buffalo
These guys are chumps, an embarrassment to Ohio FB, and we'd smoke em. Let's go woop 'em in front of their dozen fans and get paid.
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Marketing! This is the worst marketing done by any college about its athletic program. Every bar, restaurant, grocery store, convenient store, shopping center, hospital, etc...should have YSU swag all over given by the Marketing department for free. Poster schedules, neon lights, etc should be hanging everywhere. Special events should be happening every week for home and away games. There should be away game parties at every bar. Radio station should be paid to promote and do live broadcasts from bars in the area about the games and interviews during the week. The Bo Pelini show on Monday's at O'Charly's is jammed into a closet in the back room. Increase the marketing department budget, get someone in there who knows how to market a sports program and get it done. Also - win every week...that helps.
GO GUINS - anyone making the trip to Jacksonville?
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Since what I think will fix attendance won't happen,, there is nothing you can do but try to market what you have.
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Could beer be next at Stambaugh? I say next because beer is now being sold in Beeghly for the basketball games.
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I agree marketing stink's . YSU lost its luster and has to win fans back. Population in our area has dropped thousands in last 20 years and we are no where near the sports town we used to be. Having games at noon, 2pm or 4pm are dumb. Night games are better. Win and gt out of fcs would help. We need to go to fbs. Tons of factors for lagging attendance
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Could beer be next at Stambaugh? I say next because beer is now being sold in Beeghly for the basketball games.
Ohio State just started selling alcohol. It would be a good idea but I don't think it would draw more people to the games. Just more revenue.
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I agree marketing stink's . YSU lost its luster and has to win fans back. Population in our area has dropped thousands in last 20 years and we are no where near the sports town we used to be. Having games at noon, 2pm or 4pm are dumb. Night games are better. Win and gt out of fcs would help. We need to go to fbs. Tons of factors for lagging attendance
Won't happen for awhile.
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Still cannot agree Nation. The worst embarrassment of all would be to market yourself off of another school. If it even is legal, it a poor example to set. UT, BG, OU & SUNY would all ave winning records against us. Akron would be probably just above .500. Against Kent would have us just on the upside of .500, but not by much. Certainly this would change over time.
Playing at MAC schools would do zero for our attendance at home & that is what this is all about. It is the return game that draws interest and that is what we cannot have. So to heck with them. The entire conference.
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Shaming is being lazy, and will piss people off. Consistent winning is the best draw, although with the increase over the last 20 years in entertainment options I'm not sure YSU will ever average over 16,000 again.
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Shaming is being lazy, and will piss people off. Consistent winning is the best draw, although with the increase over the last 20 years in entertainment options I'm not sure YSU will ever average over 16,000 again.
You'd be surprised what a conference change would do for attendance. The closest MVFC foe is 424 miles away (INDY ST) who has 1200 fan at a home game let alone any traveling interest. The only MVFC team that travels well is NDSU and we only see them once every two years at the IC. I like being in the toughest conference for competition but it sure kills the fan base who has an interest in watching a game where they can relate to both teams. YSU in the OVC would be AWESOME for me ;D
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2015 NCAA DIVISION I FCS HOME ATTENDANCE TEAM LEADERS
Rank School G Attendance Average
1. Montana 7 168,975 24,139
2. Jacksonville St. 8 164,781 20,598
3. Yale 4 82,189 20,547
4. James Madison 7 136,483 19,498
5. Montana St. 6 115,032 19,172
6. Liberty 5 94,950 18,990
7. North Dakota St. 9 166,472 18,497
8. Southern U. 4 73,239 18,310
9. Delaware 6 94,954 15,826
10. South Carolina St. 5 78,147 15,629
11. Florida A&M 4 60,240 15,060
12. N.C. A&T 5 74,940 14,988
13. Youngstown St. 6 89,125 14,854
14. Tennessee St. 4 58,481 14,620
15. Jackson St. 5 66,258 13,252
We can get big numbers. Jacksonville State has neighboring AL (#1 in FBS attendance) and Auburn, has a smaller population of 12K, a median household income lower than Youngstown, and has a smaller enrollment. There's many reasons why our attendance numbers are lacking, but even in the age of streaming internet broadcasts, and cheap flat screen TVs, some FCS schools are getting big crowds in 2016. You just need the right ppl in the drivers seat.
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Shaming is being lazy, and will piss people off. Consistent winning is the best draw, although with the increase over the last 20 years in entertainment options I'm not sure YSU will ever average over 16,000 again.
You'd be surprised what a conference change would do for attendance. The closest MVFC foe is 424 miles away (INDY ST) who has 1200 fan at a home game let alone any traveling interest. The only MVFC team that travels well is NDSU and we only see them once every two years at the IC. I like being in the toughest conference for competition but it sure kills the fan base who has an interest in watching a game where they can relate to both teams. YSU in the OVC would be AWESOME for me ;D
I don't think any teams travel well in this conference. Which probably kills it for college kids. Still think changing to a more local conference or moving to the MAC would do this program good.
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the fact is the older folks have not been replaced by younger ones, hence the drop in attendance
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the fact is the older folks have not been replaced by younger ones, hence the drop in attendance
I agree 100%. So that begs the question, what can we do to appeal to younger fans, especially students?
I started games and tailgating in 1990, with a pretty sizable crew. I can count on one hand the number of people who joined us after me, and still have fingers left over.
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Check out @GoJacksFB's Tweet: https://twitter.com/GoJacksFB/status/803354294745321472?s=09 This could be a good start..Coach Stig getting his message out to fans and students
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the fact is the older folks have not been replaced by younger ones, hence the drop in attendance
I agree 100%. So that begs the question, what can we do to appeal to younger fans, especially students?
I started games and tailgating in 1990, with a pretty sizable crew. I can count on one hand the number of people who joined us after me, and still have fingers left over.
That whole appealing to the younger generation has to do with the marketing department. So wishful thinking....
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Check out @GoJacksFB's Tweet: https://twitter.com/GoJacksFB/status/803354294745321472?s=09 This could be a good start..Coach Stig getting his message out to fans and students
SDSU has the best marketing in the conference. After logging onto their sites for research and eventually making a purchase from their online auction, I receive updates from them atleast twice a year. What they send is high quality material that makes you feel good, and you feel like reading. They have also sent magnetic reminders for some of their events.
I do think that since Wolford began that we have increased our presence in the media, specifically through facebook and "hype" videos. However, there is still plenty of room for improvement, but it likely will come at a cost.
Z
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Check out @GoJacksFB's Tweet: https://twitter.com/GoJacksFB/status/803354294745321472?s=09 This could be a good start..Coach Stig getting his message out to fans and students
SDSU has the best marketing in the conference. After logging onto their sites for research and eventually making a purchase from their online auction, I receive updates from them atleast twice a year. What they send is high quality material that makes you feel good, and you feel like reading. They have also sent magnetic reminders for some of their events.
I do think that since Wolford began that we have increased our presence in the media, specifically through facebook and "hype" videos. However, there is still plenty of room for improvement, but it likely will come at a cost.
Z
I agree the hype videos have been a good addition, but who but the very committed like us every see them? I think a TON needs to be done with marketing to grown the program's base.
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We can get big numbers. Jacksonville State has neighboring AL (#1 in FBS attendance) and Auburn, has a smaller population of 12K, a median household income lower than Youngstown, and has a smaller enrollment. There's many reasons why our attendance numbers are lacking, but even in the age of streaming internet broadcasts, and cheap flat screen TVs, some FCS schools are getting big crowds in 2016. You just need the right ppl in the drivers seat.
Jacksonville is in the center of a county with a population of about 113,000, but that doesn't really harm your point. Our attendance was worse than your current average prior to 2010. We opened our expanded and much-improved stadium that year, and perhaps just as importantly defeated Ole Miss the week before the first home game. Also made a few significant improvements to the game day experience. But we didn't really get to our current level of attendance until a mediocre head coach was shown the door and a few short seasons later we got the state's attention with an oh-so-close loss to Auburn and the deepest of runs in the playoffs.
You guys should be fine, as long as Pelini & Co. do one important thing: Win. A lot. Get started on that first thing next year, OK?
Oh, and one more thing about the environment here: Yes, we suffer the same struggles with the Tide and Tigers you guys do with the Buckeyes. But nothing our athletic department does on Saturdays would give you any clue there is a game going on anywhere other than in Jacksonville. Gameday here is all about the Gamecocks (and our band). You'll see some fans in crimson and some in orange on Saturday if you make the trip, but they've become a small minority. Youngstown State football is something special, and you should treat it as such.