ysupenguins.com ...fan home for YSU Sports
YSU Penguin Athletics => YSU Penguin Athletics => Topic started by: Wick250 on March 28, 2016, 05:27:47 PM
-
While searching for info about the final roster moves for the Indians, I found this on today's Plain Dealer website. It is a slideshow that lists the most recent (2014-2015 academic year) athletic spending for Ohio's public universities. As you can see, the gap between YSU and Ohio MAC schools is now enormous. Here are the expense dollars listed in millions.
14.9 YSU
21.8 Bowling Green
26.3 Kent
27.1 Ohio University
29.9 Toledo
32.8 Miami
34.1 Akron
To round out the list, Cincinnati is at 51.7 while Ohio States stands at 154.
This data tells me that there are only two state schools that are responsible in spending on sports. Ohio State whose professional sports machine generates much more revenue than its expenses. And Youngstown State who understands that it is not big time and funds its sports accordingly. The Ohio MAC schools are guilty of ripping off their students and Ohio taxpayers with their extravagant athletic spending, all in the hopeless quest of being considered "big time." Don't you just love Akron, who spends 19 more million than we do as that school fires employees and drops academic programs. All for a "big time" football program that played last year, according to the Beacon Journal, in front of an average of about 5,000 actual fans.
-
Each MAC school gets $670K/year from ESPN, and our travel expenses would reduce, our corporate sponsors would pay more, loges would increase in value, and I would expect our gate revenue to improve.....but there's still a large gap.
Several MAC schools, most notably Akron, are on an unsustainable path, and will have to make some serious decisions regarding athletics in the next few years. I even read an article suggesting the entire MAC drop to FCS in FB, and the idea was receiving a favorable response.
Bo mentioned joining the MAC recently, and I am puzzled as to why.
The MVFC will change too, and I don't know how long it'll make sense to stay there. I think the next few years may be interesting.
-
While it would be fun for the fans, you are correct Wick. It does not appear to be feasible, from a financial standpoint, for the university at this time.
-
We surely are not making money or building a fan base with us being the step child of the MVFC. Nobody cares. If you asked a 100 football players or even Ohio football fans what conference YSU is in I bet less than 20 would know. Let's even say if you asked them who won the FCS even less than that. But a kid in Ohio would know a MAC school and know that they are a true D1 school. They would know they are on ESPN. We need to quit hating the MAC. That is old news. My hope is we can get in as a football only school. As for them dropping down if it does only the bottom programs might do that. Toledo, Bowling Green, Northern Il. And the one Directional Michigan as well as Ohio u would probably move on and BG as well. Who knows what will happen. But I as a fan am tired of our conference and when they added the Dakota's just wasn't a plus for us. More travel we don't recruit their area makes no sense for us. None. I am sick of hearing how great our conference is. Means nothing to me and most of the fan base. Sagarin Ratings don't draw fans.
-
Nice post Nation.
Maybe we will never be in the Mac, but that does not mean that someday we may be in the league with some of the current schools or at least be able to play them 1 and 1. As money gets tighter for many schools, changes will be coming.
-
Wick 250 or anyone else on the topic of Athletic budgets. I am wondering why do we not accept tax money for our Athletic budget. It would help would it not. I know it is so called "noble" to not accept tax money but should not the tax money allow us to field better competitive teams.....why not??????????????
Legitimate responses are?
-
That is good question EL, I was not aware that we do not accept tax revenues for sports. Being a bottom-feeder (in terms of tax dollar$), I can see us needing to place everything that we do receive into the general student fund though. I know that we have certain tax restrictions tied into the Affordable Tuition Advantage program.
-
Elpenguin,
Several decades ago, athletic director Malmisur often stated that his department had to generate all the revenue to pay for scholarships in every sport. At the time, that was a true statement, but it was also misleading. Fans assumed that this meant that YSU athletics was completely self-funded, but that was never the case. Even then we needed "institutional support" funds to cover such non-scholarship expenses as travel, equipment, insurance, facilities maintenance. That institutional support came from tuition, fees, and the state subsidy from tax dollars. So we always operated, in part, with tax money. Athletic director Strollo, with his finance background, can verify this information and explain it much better than I can. Notice that Strollo never repeats Malmisur's claim, because expenses have skyrocketed so much in recent years that we are even more heavily dependent upon institutional support, as is every state school in Ohio not named OSU.
-
Still searching for an answer. Then as Wick 250 states athletic state tax money is being channeled into the general fund for funds to cover such non-scholarship expenses as travel, equipment, insurance, facilities maintenance. Why can we not ask and expand our request to receive more state tax money like the other state schools apparently do to increase our YSU's athletic budget for salaries and scholarships (it is our state tax money is it not).
-
The Plain Dealer did a detailed series on general fund athletic subsidy by public institution this week. To your question, each institution gets state subsidy and also generates revenue by tuition and fees. The state subsidy is determined by formula based on enrollment, graduation, and retention rates. For most Ohio publics this represents between 20-25% of budget. How each institution allocates its money between academic and other needs is an institutional decision made by the BOT and administration. If the state were to give institutions more or less money they decide where that money goes or what is cut. The state doesnt give money for this purpose or that purpose, with the exception of capital funds which are allocated separately.
-
We surely are not making money or building a fan base with us being the step child of the MVFC. Nobody cares. If you asked a 100 football players or even Ohio football fans what conference YSU is in I bet less than 20 would know. Let's even say if you asked them who won the FCS even less than that. But a kid in Ohio would know a MAC school and know that they are a true D1 school. They would know they are on ESPN. We need to quit hating the MAC. That is old news. My hope is we can get in as a football only school. As for them dropping down if it does only the bottom programs might do that. Toledo, Bowling Green, Northern Il. And the one Directional Michigan as well as Ohio u would probably move on and BG as well. Who knows what will happen. But I as a fan am tired of our conference and when they added the Dakota's just wasn't a plus for us. More travel we don't recruit their area makes no sense for us. None. I am sick of hearing how great our conference is. Means nothing to me and most of the fan base. Sagarin Ratings don't draw fans.
YSUGO, so you think being a stepchild to the MAC is better than being a stepchild to the MVFC? I suggest you check with Akron and Kent before answering. The secret is to win and that doesn't matter which conference. ND has made a TON of money, played in a TON of bowls etc. as an independent. Success is the answer, not a league over your head.
-
The league is not a good fit for us. What do we have in common as fans, in who or what we recruit little or no tv exposure. Akron and Kent would be great rivalry games. It would bring back fans and interest. There is alumni from both schools in this area as well as other MAC schools. Nobody in the media the fans and football recruits no anything about the MVFC. Nobody. Even a When the Bison came to town nobody cared. I don't know what you guys don't get the 90's was almost 20 years ago . A good recruit would be like are you serious I wasn't even born when that happened. They will pick Akron or Kent before us. I get that we are in a tough league but sagarin doesn't buy tickets and fill the stands. Being able to play schools that people can relate too is smart business. It's time to get off this we hate the MAC crap. Will it happen probably not because 6000 diehards can't afford another dollar to get us there but we got the MVFC . Can't wait for the 53 fans that Indiana St brings.
-
YSUGO,
Please look at the figures at the top of this thread. To match the LOWEST Ohio MAC expenses, we would have to raise our budget by about 7 million each year. To attain status as a MIDDLE of the pack Ohio MAC school, we would have to raise our budget by 13 million each year. That is impossible. Surely you can see that.
Now in this era of fiscal austerity in the state government, if the legislators mandated a limit on the amount that state schools could spend on athletics (not counting OSU which relies on no state funds) then all those Ohio MAC schools would be forced to reduce spending to our level. A FCS MAC conference would be great. Unless that happens (and it won't) pushing membership in the MAC makes no sense.
-
Wick250,
Boy would a 1AA MAC be GREAT. Unfortunately your comment (and it won't) is correct. If you had a moment of complete honesty, Akron, Kent, Buffalo BGSU, and a bunch more would jump at the chance to be completive for a national championship annually while reducing budgets by millions, to 10's of millions at the same time. What confuses me is this talk about YSU wanting to duplicate the failure of Kent and Akron. Whatever, we aren’t going to the MAC even if they asked, which they are NOT going to do!
-
If in the MAC, YSU would again be able to play $$ games w/ the BIG for much more money than we are getting from Pitt. This in addition to the the things I mentioned above would narrow the gap, maybe enough if we were FB only members? The budget #s in the OP are from full MAC members. Let's face it, in most non-FB sports we'd get demolished in the MAC.
Maybe we can transition the FB program to be a step closer to the MAC.
--Replace a boring NEC game with a MAC game on the schedule..yes it'd be away, but Can't is paying >$300K to FCS programs, which is more revenue than we get from a home game.
--add FCOA schollies, the MAC has 'em, and this would level the recruiting playing field. Also, several MVFC teams now have them. Parlay the MAC game revenue to pay for it.
--start to again dominate FCS FB. It's hard to sell an upgrade to FBS when you are struggling in FCS.
-
The only thing that I would like to point out is that the MAC schools cannot possibly keep up spending at the current rates. Big changes are ahead and the budgets will more closely resemble YSU's current levels for most of them. Akron ins financing ticket sales for football. Unbelievable. This is not sustainable.
-
I would need to see the figures on what YSU makes per home game Nation. With a solid team, we are going to make:
1. 20k x $10 = $200k in ticket sales (although with give-a ways $8 may be more accurate).
2. 1/6th (assuming a 6 home game season) of our loge revenues has to be around $100k.
3. Tailgating with even a modest team sells out all of the upper lot, 1/2 the lower lot & half of the lower walk-up parking outside of M7. There are no discounts on tailgating, so this is about 600-750 cars at $20 each = so at least $120k (assumong lower lot is cheaper ans the parking across Lincoln is only $5).
4. Banners are $1k per game & large banners are $10k per game (don't quote me on those large banners, they may only be $5k) but there are about 12 of them + other miscellaneous revenues (concessions, memorabilia, 50/50, etc.) are worth a couple of grand at least. This is at least $50k (even assuming I overstated the cost on large banners).
I say we are always better off taking the light-weight home game if we are not going to get major conference $$$ of at least $380k to $400k.
-
I heard total revenue for a home game is ~$200K. How accurate that is IDK. Can't is paying Kennesaw St $325K from what I recall.
-
If we were in the MAC for the argument
We would be able to play 2 B1G road games each year (estimated revenue, 750k each)
We are forced to play atleast 2 home games (pay 1-aa school $350k and 1-a school 450k to play at YSU)
So by playing the B1G schools you net 700k yearly for your athletic budget in non conference schedules which isnt enough to justify the increased spending needed for the MAC
-
I would need to see the figures on what YSU makes per home game Nation. With a solid team, we are going to make:
1. 20k x $10 = $200k in ticket sales (although with give-a ways $8 may be more accurate).
2. 1/6th (assuming a 6 home game season) of our loge revenues has to be around $100k.
3. Tailgating with even a modest team sells out all of the upper lot, 1/2 the lower lot & half of the lower walk-up parking outside of M7. There are no discounts on tailgating, so this is about 600-750 cars at $20 each = so at least $120k (assumong lower lot is cheaper ans the parking across Lincoln is only $5).
4. Banners are $1k per game & large banners are $10k per game (don't quote me on those large banners, they may only be $5k) but there are about 12 of them + other miscellaneous revenues (concessions, memorabilia, 50/50, etc.) are worth a couple of grand at least. This is at least $50k (even assuming I overstated the cost on large banners).
I say we are always better off taking the light-weight home game if we are not going to get major conference $$$ of at least $380k to $400k.
I want to see no part of a light weight team on the schedule. I don't want to watch the games, it doesn't help our case with playoff seeding, it can foster complacency with regard to preparation for games, it is simply uncompetitive to watch, hurts attendance, pads the record to make things look better than they are, (did I mention fan interest?), and is un-American.
-
It's going to be an interesting next couple of years. I don't see how the MAC stays in its current form for much longer. I think the league should split. NIU and Toledo join C-USA, and everyone else move to the FCS. The MVFC itself may lose some schools to the FBS (NDSU, UNI, and maybe SDSU), and the financially troubled IL schools may suspend their programs or drop to D2. A hybrid scenario would be replacing the most troubled MAC schools with the top MVFC schools, although I think the MAC likes being a "commute by bus" conference.
$52M lost in two years...staggering
http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2016/04/20/terry-foster-eastern-michigan-analyzing-football-program-after-athletic-department-lost-52-million-over-the-last-two-years/
-
I would need to see the figures on what YSU makes per home game Nation. With a solid team, we are going to make:
1. 20k x $10 = $200k in ticket sales (although with give-a ways $8 may be more accurate).
2. 1/6th (assuming a 6 home game season) of our loge revenues has to be around $100k.
3. Tailgating with even a modest team sells out all of the upper lot, 1/2 the lower lot & half of the lower walk-up parking outside of M7. There are no discounts on tailgating, so this is about 600-750 cars at $20 each = so at least $120k (assumong lower lot is cheaper ans the parking across Lincoln is only $5).
4. Banners are $1k per game & large banners are $10k per game (don't quote me on those large banners, they may only be $5k) but there are about 12 of them + other miscellaneous revenues (concessions, memorabilia, 50/50, etc.) are worth a couple of grand at least. This is at least $50k (even assuming I overstated the cost on large banners).
I say we are always better off taking the light-weight home game if we are not going to get major conference $$$ of at least $380k to $400k.
I want to see no part of a light weight team on the schedule. I don't want to watch the games, it doesn't help our case with playoff seeding, it can foster complacency with regard to preparation for games, it is simply uncompetitive to watch, hurts attendance, pads the record to make things look better than they are, (did I mention fan interest?), and is un-American.
You make a good point power, but there is far more interest in any home game over an away game ...at least in terms of attendance. I will take as many home games as I can get!!
-
I just quickly glanced at the final list of the NFL draft, although I care virtually nothing about professional football. The MVFC had three players drafted (2 NDSU, 1 UNI.) The omni-powerful MAC had four, if you count one from Massachusetts who left.
-
I just quickly glanced at the final list of the NFL draft, although I care virtually nothing about professional football. The MVFC had three players drafted (2 NDSU, 1 UNI.) The omni-powerful MAC had four, if you count one from Massachusetts who left.
The MAC had 6 picks.
-
I just quickly glanced at the final list of the NFL draft, although I care virtually nothing about professional football. The MVFC had three players drafted (2 NDSU, 1 UNI.) The omni-powerful MAC had four, if you count one from Massachusetts who left.
The MAC had 6 picks.
MVFC:3 (UNI 1, NDSU 2)
MAC: 5 (WMU 2, Akr 1, CMU 1, EMU 1)
and the MAC is bigger by 2 teams....for now....
-
Why all the hate for the MAC? Lol! They are DIV 1. Big time football BCS that is the perception from the average fan not the 10 of us on here. It is what is. If the Bison haven't done so well our FCS league would be ranked much lower. Talking about what league is stronger means sh** when we have not won it in what a decade.
-
Why all the hate for the MAC? Lol!
Because it's always a good time making fun of pretenders who max their credit cards and spend their rent money trying to appear like they're from the other side of the tracks. In a few years they'll be so busted financially they may not afford to compete in FCS football. I wish we would play 'em so we could wail away on 'em.
-
The MAC has been extremely successful in recruiting players that go into the NFL. The conference's issue is their lack of top-to-bottom good teams. You know, the kind where your impact players usually do not make the NFL, but may see a tryout at best ... but play their hearts out. Not sure how old this list is, but former MAC players in the NFL:
Akron: 6
Ball State: 7
BGSU: 8
SUNY-Buffalo: 4
CMU: 9
EMU: 8
Kent: 5
Miami: 10
NIU: 12
Ohio: 3
Toledo: 10
WMU: 5
-------------------------------
Marshall: 18
CFU: 15
Temple:11 (not sure how this relates to time in conference).
-
The MAC has been extremely successful in recruiting players that go into the NFL. The conference's issue is their lack of top-to-bottom good teams. You know, the kind where your impact players usually do not make the NFL, but may see a tryout at best ... but play their hearts out. Not sure how old this list is, but former MAC players in the NFL:
Akron: 6
Ball State: 7
BGSU: 8
SUNY-Buffalo: 4
CMU: 9
EMU: 8
Kent: 5
Miami: 10
NIU: 12
Ohio: 3
Toledo: 10
WMU: 5
-------------------------------
Marshall: 18
CFU: 15
Temple:11 (not sure how this relates to time in conference).
Thanks for sharing Fan this is really amazing when you think about it. Please keep us informed on any free agent signings for the penguins. Even tho a long shot I like kenneth Durden and Terrell Williams chances if given the opportunity in the right system
-
Perceptive as always fever. Durden was signed as an undrafted free agent to the raiders.
-
The MAC has been extremely successful in recruiting players that go into the NFL. The conference's issue is their lack of top-to-bottom good teams. You know, the kind where your impact players usually do not make the NFL, but may see a tryout at best ... but play their hearts out. Not sure how old this list is, but former MAC players in the NFL:
Akron: 6
Ball State: 7
BGSU: 8
SUNY-Buffalo: 4
CMU: 9
EMU: 8
Kent: 5
Miami: 10
NIU: 12
Ohio: 3
Toledo: 10
WMU: 5
-------------------------------
Marshall: 18
CFU: 15
Temple:11 (not sure how this relates to time in conference).
Thanks for sharing Fan this is really amazing when you think about it. Please keep us informed on any free agent signings for the penguins. Even tho a long shot I like kenneth Durden and Terrell Williams chances if given the opportunity in the right system
Yes, this why it is so difficult for YSU to recruit against these teams.
-
In response to the title of this thread - it would seem not!
-
Tough for me to forget cause I'd much rather watch the Guins play Akron, Kent, BG, OU and Miami than any of the schools in the Valley. With the ever-changing landscape in college athletics, I believe one day YSU will be in a conference with most of these teams. I just hope it's sooner than later.
-
Tough for me to forget cause I'd much rather watch the Guins play Akron, Kent, BG, OU and Miami than any of the schools in the Valley. With the ever-changing landscape in college athletics, I believe one day YSU will be in a conference with most of these teams. I just hope it's sooner than later.
I agree 100 percent
-
Speaking of possible future shake ups.
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2016/05/03/sports/ncaafootball/ap-fbc-big-12-expansion-american.html?_r=0
-
Tough for me to forget cause I'd much rather watch the Guins play Akron, Kent, BG, OU and Miami than any of the schools in the Valley. With the ever-changing landscape in college athletics, I believe one day YSU will be in a conference with most of these teams. I just hope it's sooner than later.
I agree 100 percent
Ditto!!
-
MAC Bowl watch: 0-5....soon to be 0-6.
Whenever you feel down on your luck, remember you're not the MAC. :D
-
MAC Bowl watch: 0-5....soon to be 0-6.
Whenever you feel down on your luck, remember you're not the MAC. :D
Miami Ohio almost beat Mississippi St. Not sure why everyone knocks the MAC. If we were in the MAC at least we'd be in a bowl game.
-
I'd rather be in the NCAA division 1 national championship game ;)
-
I'd rather be in the NCAA division 1 national championship game ;)
I would as well but it's not like it happens that often.
-
If the MAC wasn't so pretentious I'd cut them some slack. The entire MAC East is ranked below both YSU and the MVFC. In fact, the only two MAC teams with a higher Sagarin rating is WMU and Toledo. As far as Miss St, they aren't ranked much higher than we are (50 vs 60). Kent was beat in their stadium by a MEAC team lol. Imagine how embarrassed we would be. The conference will fold someday, soon I think, when they're done hemorrhaging money the take out of student fees, and most of the MAC will become FCS. It would make sense to form a conference with them except it would be a downgrade for us.
I agree with Yo, I'd rather play in a meaningful playoff game than a meaningless bowl where the stands are empty and whole sections are covered with a tarp like the EMU bowl.