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YSU Penguin Athletics => YSU Penguin Athletics => Topic started by: ysufan0505 on March 24, 2015, 11:59:55 AM

Title: State of men’s basketball
Post by: ysufan0505 on March 24, 2015, 11:59:55 AM
Per chad krispinsky and Dana Balash.... Both players leaving ysu. Big losses.

Chad Krispinsky @ChadK426  ·  2h 2 hours ago
I'm told Marcus Keene and Osandai Vaughn are leaving the YSU Men's basketball program

Dana Balash @DanaBalash21  ·  49m 49 minutes ago
.@21WFMJSports  YSU has no comment, but I've been told Marcus Keene and Osandai Vaughn are leaving the men's basketball program.
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: penguin4ever on March 24, 2015, 01:25:54 PM
Ok, Ron do you need the entire team to walk out before you fix this disaster we call Men's basketball. This is a disgrace! It is now time to stop the excuses and fire Jerry now!
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: ysufan0505 on March 24, 2015, 01:31:30 PM
Keene was going to be the main guy next year running point... So that's what? 4 players in the last 2 years?
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: goodnews on March 24, 2015, 01:43:29 PM
No need to worry they have a couple transfers he is excited about according to the Tribune article.  I told you that interview was scripted.  You cant tell me Strollo wasnt aware of this as his son is on the team.
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: goodnews on March 24, 2015, 01:48:28 PM
BTW, its not TOO late to open the job and pay this guy off..... Jerry/Ron are both so smug they would never assume responsibility and in Ron's case hold the coach accountable.  This really is a joke... Maybe they can blame the program defections on the budget too... What a disgrace...
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: ysufan0505 on March 24, 2015, 01:49:30 PM
They have the 7 footer from Oral Roberts coming in.... Other than that. Yikes.
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: Penguin Nation on March 24, 2015, 03:20:10 PM
Please correct me if I am mistaken, but the last place HL team just lost all of its top 5 scorers except for Hain (including two due to graduation)?

This is what no accountability looks like.
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: ysufan0505 on March 24, 2015, 03:49:31 PM
Please correct me if I am mistaken, but the last place HL team just lost all of its top 5 scorers except for Hain (including two due to graduation)?

This is what no accountability looks like.

Correct. Go Guins!
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: jbags on March 24, 2015, 03:50:41 PM
For a guy that doesnt like to play freshman,,Slocum will need all 3 signees to play major minutes next year. Thats why Umude, Morse, and Nickels needed valuable time this year, but no. Slocum basically built his team around Weber and Keene the past 2 years and both have left. Isnt it about time we concentrate on Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinnati and Pittsburgh for the bulk of our recruits. No one can tell me we cant get some kids closer to the valley so they stay for 4 years. We need new, young leadership here. I understand why Slocum was hired (won at a lower level), but for every Hain and Perry, we lose double that. Something is wrong. Another awfully long year again next season.
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: Penguin Nation on March 24, 2015, 04:05:14 PM
So last season can't even be repackaged as a "rebuilding" year. It was a University having a campfire with >$1.3M.   Maybe it was adult day care for Jerry.

When do the adults at YSU arrive?  I thought JT would have little patience for outlandish incompetence and wasteful use of University resources...in all aspects of the University. 
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: YSUGO on March 24, 2015, 09:46:53 PM
Not sure it's Slocums fault.  I heard that both kids think they are better than YSU and want to go to school that that is bigger than us. Or something to like that. 
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: paladin on March 24, 2015, 09:47:48 PM
Do a 10-15 year review of the total athletic dept and then say with a straight face that  Strollo is a good AD.

YSU sucks because of a good old boy system.  It starts at the top
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: YSUGO on March 24, 2015, 09:53:07 PM
Tell me how it's the AD's fault that those kids want to transfer? They were starters that bailed and quit on their teammates and the program. YSU gave them an opportunity and Slocom was making The one kid the main cog of  the offense with Hain. 
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: guinpen on March 24, 2015, 10:23:54 PM
In situations like this, anyone can assume things, and make a case to blame whomever they do not like. Bottom line is real simple, unless the players them self, make a statement, we will never know the reason.
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: ysufan0505 on March 24, 2015, 10:24:27 PM
Yep, throw the players under the bus. Typical Slocum act.... Sickening.
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: Penguin Nation on March 25, 2015, 06:18:43 AM
Jerry has finished with a 2 win HL record three of the last six seasons. Jerry has finished ninth or tenth in the HL three of the last six seasons. In his ten years, half of the seasons were ninth or tenth place finishes. He has had a losing record in the HL every year except one.

For the second straight year, leading scorers are prematurely leaving the team.  Last year it was after one player punched another.

Jerry recruited these kids, and should recruit kids that want to be Penguins, and who are proud to be Penguins. He should, like any good leader, retain quality talent.

This is all on Jerry...except the record of failure is so extensive that the blame really shifts more and more to the AD, and even to those above the AD.
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: YsuPride on March 25, 2015, 07:08:53 AM
Bottom line is Slocum is in charge of whatever happens.  Just like any of us at our jobs.  If someone is in a position to be in charge of a business or whatever they have to understand the accountability that comes with it.  Jerry is fully accountable for the programs conditions.  I personally have spoken to students who are close to some players and they say the players do not care for Slocum.  The program has hit rock bottom with no end in sight.   
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: IAA Fan on March 25, 2015, 07:11:46 AM
Never heard any statements ...so no one threw anyone "under the bus". In fact I cannot say that I ever heard of any such statements ever coming from Slocum about any players.
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: YsuPride on March 25, 2015, 07:14:18 AM
Funny thing we change the head football coach with a winning record but keep Slocum who record is terrible.
Kinda makes you scratch your head and wonder.
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: Spiderlegs on March 25, 2015, 09:38:44 AM
I was surprised Keene was invited back after the incident with Weber last year, so i can't say his departure is a real loss--he doesn't belong here.  He's a good player, but his ego seems to be getting in the way. I can't comment on Vaughn but it sounds like from the Vindy article he wants to be closer to home.
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: Penguin Nick on March 25, 2015, 11:24:32 AM
I am so tired of the mediocrity that is YSU men's basketball.  How and why this crap is allowed to go on year after year after year is mind-boggling.  You get what you pay for and what you invest in, and when you pay your coach very little compared to what he should be paid (esp compared to your 1AA football coach), when your arena has rickety bleachers and you can't even see the scoreboard half-way up these bleachers, and when your out-of-conference schedule is as pathetic as our schedule is, then this is what you get.  Until we hold coach and Strollo accountable, this will continue to happen. 
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: ysufan0505 on March 25, 2015, 11:32:12 AM
Vaughn's statements...

“The coaching staff has a good philosophy, but it doesn’t fit me,” he said in a telephone interview on Tuesday afternoon. “I’m more of a guy who drives to the basket and he’s a jump-shooting coach, a 3-pointer coach."

“I came in here averaging 20 points per game in junior college and I was shooting like nine free throws a game. He tried to change me and that style of play doesn’t fit me. I’d rather go somewhere where I fit the style of play.”

“I wasn’t happy about the things to do here in Youngstown, but that was only about five percent [of the decision],” he said. “And it’s cold. That played a major factor.

“Leaving Youngstown is the best thing I could do. I need to go somewhere where my family can get to the games. It’s eight hours from home and I need to get closer.”

Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: jbags on March 25, 2015, 12:07:20 PM
Vaughn's quote proves my point exactly....we need a staff with contacts in Ohio and W. PA...kids stay here for a season and if they dont see the court much or are too far away from home, they up and leave. We can fill a roster with guys like that over the years. Kudos to kids like DJ and Kendrick; kids that commit to a program even though they are a long way from home. Why do we need to recruit in Texas when we can find kids just as good much closer to Youngstown. Slocum coached a Gannon and won a lot of games there, it would interesting to see the make up of his squads there. Id be willing to bet that the majority of his players couldve played here. Its not like the talent level here has won much of anything since Rice left. These defections are becoming unacceptable. It seems to be the trademark of the past two regimes. Lets just build this the right way. Personally, I think Andre Smith (ex player) would be a fine choice to begin the turnaround
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: jbags on March 25, 2015, 12:32:35 PM
Just checked out Lourdes Univ website and see that Leroy King is on Dre's staff. Who better than 2 ex YSU players that understand this university and also what it takes to play at a mid major level, to turn this around. Id bet they both would jump at the chance.
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: Penguin Nation on March 25, 2015, 03:04:36 PM
I thought it was outrageous that a player punches another player, and then stays on the team.

Character should be a factor in recruiting.

Was the snow, or the role Vaughn would be asked to play a surprise to him? I strongly suspect there  are way more to his reasons for leaving than that.
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: guinpen on March 25, 2015, 05:38:14 PM
Vaughn's statements...

“The coaching staff has a good philosophy, but it doesn’t fit me,” he said in a telephone interview on Tuesday afternoon. “I’m more of a guy who drives to the basket and he’s a jump-shooting coach, a 3-pointer coach."

“I came in here averaging 20 points per game in junior college and I was shooting like nine free throws a game. He tried to change me and that style of play doesn’t fit me. I’d rather go somewhere where I fit the style of play.”

“I wasn’t happy about the things to do here in Youngstown, but that was only about five percent [of the decision],” he said. “And it’s cold. That played a major factor.

“Leaving Youngstown is the best thing I could do. I need to go somewhere where my family can get to the games. It’s eight hours from home and I need to get closer.”


Sounds like he thought it out, good luck to him
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: ysufan0505 on March 25, 2015, 07:24:33 PM
Thing that stuck out to me is when Vaughn said Slocum plays a different style than what my game is.... Really? So why recruit him to come here when he is not going to fit your style of play??
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: IAA Fan on March 25, 2015, 08:50:47 PM
Thing that stuck out to me is when Vaughn said Slocum plays a different style than what my game is.... Really? So why recruit him to come here when he is not going to fit your style of play??

you are so anti-Slocum that you are seeing this backwards. Vaughn knew his role & the weather. He may have found out he cannot do either, but still that is nothing on Slocum. It happens in football all the time. I was getting sick of these Florida guys. anyone any good leaves for the heat. anyone not worth a darn, knows it and stays.

Let's just see how the recruits work out and who comes with the two open scholarships. As strange as this sounds and I am showing my age, I would like to go back to having a week of open tryouts again. You would be surprised what comes your way.
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: YSUGO on March 25, 2015, 09:44:39 PM
I have to agree the kid knew when he was recruited what style of play we run.  Guard oriented and outside shooting.  Slocum gave Keene the keys to the car and the kid screwed him. Perry who was way better than Keene didn't have any problems with him. 
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: popsicle on March 25, 2015, 09:56:25 PM
1AA? These Florida guys? The ones who are good leave and the ones who aren't stay? So would Kendrick fall into the ..............which one? You are so out of touch.
Osandi found out....or realized.....it was cold in Youngstown? Really? Guess he wasn't a geography major! Yet only 5 % of his decision was based on what there was to do in Youngstown! God love Youngstown.......but there is not a whole lot to do!
"The wheels have come off"......."Elvis has left the building"......" The fat lady has sung"........."jerry is coaching"? One doesn't fit. You solve the puzzle...riddle....whatever you may deem it so that it sounds complex in your high thinking analysis.
Things outlive their usefulness. Happens all the time.
By the way......haven't heard any updates on the current roster making GPA rewards recognition? Did I miss it?
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: ysufan0505 on March 25, 2015, 10:00:33 PM
Just keep lining up the excuses for this guy.... It's amazing. No other university would put up with the kind of mediocrity that Slocum puts out here.... Lol
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: paladin on March 25, 2015, 10:58:11 PM
Hey,05.... Strollo does  it quite well.   Hired  Jerry . Extended him. And now his son is on the team. One big happy family !  8)
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: IAA Fan on March 26, 2015, 08:01:30 AM
Popsicle, I was talking about football primarily for the Florida guys.

05, I will say it again ...you are blinded by your dislike for Slocum.

Paladin, you have no credibility as you hate YSU; so who cares? Please don't pull your usual, by joking with one of your alter-egos or by martyring yourself as some sort of truth-Sayer.
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: ysufan0505 on March 26, 2015, 12:19:03 PM
And you my friend, are blinded by the BS that comes out of Strollo's mouth. Overshadowing the fact that this man has 2 winning seasons in 10 years and is still here!! Unbelievable.
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: YSUFANSINCE1990 on March 26, 2015, 12:21:05 PM
  Two different issues we are talking about here.  The first is the lack of success in basketball is on Slocum.  I don' t think any other division 1 program in the country would have let this disaster go on this long.  Sad thing is I hear the powers at YSU think Slocum is doing a good job, his performance is pathetic.

 Second issue is Ron Strollo failing to address the issue and fire this stiff.   Also, when Butler left the Horizon League become a much lesser conference.    No reason to be in or near the basement every year.

  Not even sure to begin with Strollo's son,  saw him play in high school and likely would be a very good fit at a Division 3 school like Mt. Union.   But if he gets any significant playing time at YSU we are worse than I thought.   I can't imagine that there is pressure from above to play him, and i really can't believe Slocum would let that happen.  I am no fan of Slocum. but Strollo's kid would not be able to play D-2, let alone here.

 
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: jbags on March 26, 2015, 12:38:00 PM
Just find it hard to believe that I used to stand in line 2 hours before games at Struthers Field House to watch a Division 2 YSU play Akron or Gannon or Philadelphia Textile. Or even believe that OU, Minnesota, Northwestern, South Alabama, LaSalle, C. Michigan, E. Michigan, Buffalo, Radford, Canisius ever came here to Beeghley. Now our home schedule has the likes of Warren Wilson, Thiel, and Hiram. I dont know what happened or even how to fix it, but somebody somewhere must have an answer. I just know I miss those days when I couldnt wait to see a game
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: paladin on March 26, 2015, 01:38:08 PM
When you talk about anything in the athletic dept.................... it all starts FIRST with STROLLO. Everything follows after that.  8)

There is NO ACCOUNTABILITY at YSU. Its the good old boys club. Until that changes , you'll watch a third rate program, if you are still dumb enough to be there to watch.
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: IAA Fan on March 26, 2015, 02:51:09 PM
First of all I will ALWAYS be in favor of the "good old boys club" it is the way any serious program operates. Rules are on paper ...nowhere else. Come on down to Columbus for a day, you will see what I mean.

Strollo's son ...he is a non-factor. He is on remission as the child of faculty, so he has no need for any scholarship dollars. Let him play & he will end up where he ends up. So why complain? I would expect the same for any of your sons/daughters if you were an employee.

Strollo: wonderful AD and I could not ask for more. When he leaves, we will all be worse off as a program.

Slocum: He is what he is. I like him & am happy he is here. I wish we had more success, but MBB is at the appropriate concern level right now. It has to fall below facilities, women's sports and football. If we were able to pull in the nation's basketball best players, I would still be happy to have Slocum at the helm. In the mean time he has good fundamental coaching skills, affording us the ability to recruit untapped talent. He is also prepping a good replacement for when he does retire. Even if we hired outside, I see Slocum as being an integral part of the transition. After all ...he is a "good ole boy".
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: guinpen on March 26, 2015, 07:26:12 PM
Who the heck cares if Strollos kid is on the bench, I doubt he is taking someones scholarship.

I also believe that we need a new coach, I think that Jerry tries his best but just not getting it done.

I do not understand why we keep him,
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: ValleyTalk on March 26, 2015, 08:55:26 PM
Who the heck cares if Strollos kid is on the bench, I doubt he is taking someones scholarship.

I also believe that we need a new coach, I think that Jerry tries his best but just not getting it done.

I do not understand why we keep him,
His father is AD and full-time at YSU, thus he would not need a scholarship as he'd be going for nothing.

The real question, is Plummer next? According to someone on here, he had an altercation of some sort during the year which led him to the bench.
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: SoupCity on March 26, 2015, 09:05:16 PM
1AA....."Slocum: He is what he is. I like him & am happy he is here. I wish we had more success, but MBB is at the appropriate concern level right now. It has to fall below facilities, women's sports and football. If we were able to pull in the nation's basketball best players, I would still be happy to have Slocum at the helm. In the mean time he has good fundamental coaching skills, affording us the ability to recruit untapped talent. He is also prepping a good replacement for when he does retire. Even if we hired outside, I see Slocum as being an integral part of the transition. After all ...he is a "good ole boy"."

Please tell me that is nothing but sarcasm.  Look, I pay absolutely no attention to MBB because well, it SUCKS, PERIOD.

If it HAS to fall below facilities and women's sports, then why have it?? 
How does this program even think about pulling good players in, when the program is absolutely terrible?
Good fundamental coaching skills?  Untapped talent?  He loses more players than he gets.  HE loses more games than he wins.

Sarcasm right?  Please say yes.  Because until today, I really respected your views on a lot of things.  But, if that is how you truly feel, I may have to start reading your comments with the same view as I read Paladin.

SHEESH, I feel like I was just kicked in the gut.  WOW!!
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: ysufan0505 on March 26, 2015, 09:56:46 PM
Wouldn't be surprised if 1 or 2 more players left....
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: Penguin Nation on March 26, 2015, 11:30:25 PM
It would be absurd to prioritize a non-revenue generating sport over a revenue generating sport.

Maybe Bobby Hain should be put in lock down so he doesn't leave.  Or Maybe bribe him to stay? Idk
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: jbags on March 27, 2015, 10:14:08 AM
This can be fixed if the right guy comes in to run it. I guess our coach will be here another year before he retires so that makes it really tough to recruit. Kids dont come here because of the "brand", some schools never really recruit, they just choose. We are not that type of program. Kids come here to play for a coach they relate to, or its the only D1 scholly they received. They leave for basically the same reason, they lose trust in the staff that recruited them or they realize they cannot play at this level and want playing time. All of them come in thinking that they are better than they realize and when reality sets in they step out. It seems that we have signed 3 nice players but will they stay when a new staff takes over. We might find ourselves in the same boat this time next season. Right now we are stuck in a revolving door, going nowhere fast.
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: ysufan0505 on March 27, 2015, 11:11:10 AM
Slocum is gonna stay to get his 700 wins... Against Youngstown East or Chaney, or Rayen or whoever else we play at home... After next year, see ya.
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: IAA Fan on March 27, 2015, 12:04:32 PM
Soup:

It has nothing to do with a like or dislike of basketball. To me, if it is a Penguin sport ..it has my full support. I am looking to buy a Lady Pens bowling glove and I do not even bowl :)  That being said:

With the uncertainty of the NCAA and conferences, YSU has to be prepared for any possibility ...move up, move down, or stay the same. Either way facilities are what we lack, as that is what makes us more appealing to a conference. (look at the official MAC rejection from 1993). Strollo has been navigating a ship over some very rough seas and even though things have not come as fast as many would like ...he has shown the ability to be a good captain.

Title IX (good or bad) makes the need for more women's scholarships a top priority, if we want to play in a good conference and/or support a 63 (or maybe even 85 someday) men's scholarship equivalent football team. Yes it is a "hit in the gut", but you have to thank your politically correct society. It is not fair that a basketball player can skip college and go pro, while football player cannot, but it was deemed a racial bias by the supreme court back in the 70's. Title IX did the same thing to us ...only much worse.

As to Slocum, again I like him. Yes, like you I want more success, but I believe if anyone can do it (given our current situation) I believe it is he. He is a good fundamental's coach and I do believe he can (and has) help players with more raw talent compete at the DI level. It is these types of player that we traditionally were able to get. Now, as the stature of the HL moving up, we can certainly recruit the better talent ...and we have.  If you feel Slocum's time has come, I may not agree, but certainly understand why you feel that way; but give the man his dues for what he has been able to do with the program.

I am not crazy, or looking to lose respect with you or anyone else. it is just how I feel. Look at coach H in football. I had a broom behind him shortly after he took over & when they renewed I was upset ...then 1.5 years later we made the semis. Then when H did leave, I was was upset and felt the timing was bad. Mainly because of his keeping the "Youngstown" brand of football ...even though coach H wanted to change the offense. Then in comes coach W ...he did change the offense ...unfortunately, he changed the defense as well. I now hope that coach P will restore the good old Penguin defenses and coach M can continue to produce points. That being said ...Penguin Club, game and tailgate ticket sales have to be the top priority. Yet when he recruits the local kids, everyone on the board complains; even though we should know it is the best thing (besides winning) that he can do for our program.
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: guinpen on March 27, 2015, 06:33:09 PM
Slocum is gonna stay to get his 700 wins... Against Youngstown East or Chaney, or Rayen or whoever else we play at home... After next year, see ya.

I understand that 500, 600 700 etc are all milestones, but how close a coach is to one should  never be the reason to keep them around
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: popsicle on March 27, 2015, 06:37:29 PM
Preaching to the choir, Guin.
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: ysufan0505 on March 27, 2015, 11:32:26 PM
Trust me, I'm with you on that Guinpen! Have a feeling though, that the AD is gonna go this direction.
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: OleYSUfan on March 28, 2015, 08:53:39 PM
There's is a head coach opening at the Univ. Of Texas; maybe Coach Slocum can get hired there and get his 700th win!  :-\
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: jbags on March 30, 2015, 06:02:44 PM
We better be recruiting Cleveland Central Catholic ' s Antan Lilliard
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: Spiderlegs on March 31, 2015, 09:49:12 AM
You may be right on this one, jbags. Last I heard he had no offers yet. He handled himself well after the dunk controversy. I guess maybe he didn't punch enough people in the face in HS to get our attention.
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: jbags on March 31, 2015, 10:17:11 AM
Cleveland State will find room for him and we'll deal with him for 4 years....meanwhile we sign a kid from Louisiana thats good but will get homesick and leave after 1 or 2 years. Its not to build a program
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: ysufan0505 on March 31, 2015, 11:31:22 AM
2 more players gone.... Stewart and Plummer. Wow, this is unreal!

.@21WFMJSports I've been told by source close to YSU hoops that @GoodmanESPN report is true. Jalon Plummer & Shaun Stewart are transferring.
Title: State of men’s basketball
Post by: Penguin Nick on March 31, 2015, 12:06:58 PM
I’ve never been a conspiracy junkie, but I’m convincing myself that the YSU Athletic Administration purposely makes men’s basketball the red-headed stepchild to the football team.  If, for example, men’s basketball became a fairly regular NCAA Tournament participant and did some damage in the tournament, YSU would become much more known nationally in basketball than by winning 1AA football championships (no matter what AD Strollo stated in the recent Warren Tribune article) and I don’t think the YSU Athletic Administration wants this to happen.   
 
1.  The coach of a division 1 basketball team earns only $137,000 (far, far less then what he should be earning in the Horizon League) while the coach of a Division 1AA football team earns approximately $250,000.  I absolutely love college football and go to most every YSU game, but I’m sorry, this is an embarrassing difference, no matter how important YSU football is to the community.  Such a difference in salary alone makes the YSU basketball coach a 2nd class citizen in the pecking order.  In other words, Slocum knows his place.
2.  Who makes the schedule, is it strictly Slocum?  Does AD Strollo have any input?  It’s impossible to create interest in a program and recruit players when your out-of-conference home schedule is pathetic.  I keep hearing how YSU "doesn’t have the money" to invest in basketball, therefore, be aggressive and play numerous “big-money” games (see Oakland/Oral Roberts schedule for example) to make money.  Use the money you earn from these games to upgrade an-outdated Beeghly Center (taking out the embarrassing bleachers and putting in permanent/retractable red chair back seats would be a start or use these games to help pay upgraded salaries).  Fan interest will increase by leaps and bounds.     

The citizens of Youngstown who have to live through this mediocrity year-after-year are getting shortchanged.  There should not be such a disparity between Stambaugh Stadium and an outdated Beeghly Center.  I don’t buy into this notion that men’s hoops cannot be successful and believe that men’s basketball should be able to financially take care of itself (and even other sports at YSU) and be a major money-maker. 


 
   
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: ScarletRook on March 31, 2015, 12:35:21 PM
Quote
I’ve never been a conspiracy junkie, but I’m convincing myself that the YSU Athletic Administration purposely makes men’s basketball the red-headed stepchild to the football team.  If, for example, men’s basketball became a fairly regular NCAA Tournament participant and did some damage in the tournament, YSU would become much more known nationally in basketball than by winning 1AA football championships (no matter what AD Strollo stated in the recent Warren Tribune article) and I don’t think the YSU Athletic Administration wants this to happen.   


First off, the last football championship was so long ago that many don't even think about it.  It is just a vague reminder of how great a program we once had. 
Second, if the MBB team were to become "a fairly regular NCAA Tournament participant" I don't see how that could do anything but help the University and resolve the money difference. 
Let's face it, the AD budget has a target on its head and losing teams and losing revenue will do nothing but give people more shots at the target.

YSU got a reprieve with Nebraska supplementing Pelini's income but that will not last.
The MBB program is a train wreck!  Paying the engineer more won't fix that problem.
The basketball facilities need major improvements and the football stadium is reaching that point too.
Money from "big-money games" helps pay the way across the board for sports which are revenu losers; which sadly I believe is every sport now.
Fan interest in any sport increases by leaps and bounds by winning!

You make valid points and I will agree with most except the conspiracy of not wanting a winning MBB program. 
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: jbags on March 31, 2015, 12:37:02 PM
once again, I dont blame either one...Plummer never played as a freshman, started at the beginning of the season and wound up in the doghouse...Stewart was a highly touted JC kid that fell out of favor early...its not all Slocum's fault ...those 4 that left share some of the blame.. but something isnt right and it needs fixed...this wave of players that need to be signed must stay the course...we cant have this each year...guess we must hit the junior colleges hard
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: gbs20 on March 31, 2015, 12:41:09 PM
How about using the revenue from money games to subsidize the rent of playing at Covelli?  Many urban universities play at off campus arenas and this really isnt off campus given that few students attend the games even in the best of circumstances.  It would save the money of renovating Beeghly and enable the team to play at a high quality venue.
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: jbags on March 31, 2015, 12:44:45 PM
bleak picture huh? good news is only 5 guys are on the floor at once and if 2 are true D1 players then you can improve immensely...we need to find 2 good players that stay for 4 years
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: Spiderlegs on March 31, 2015, 01:23:16 PM
We don't know what really happened.  If these guys are quitting because they don't like Slocum, then yes, Slocum is the problem and Strollo needs to step in. There may also be something going on behind the scenes that we don't know about (academics, curfew violations, illegal substance abuse)--YSU athletics is very good about maintaining confidentiality on such things.


 
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: jbags on March 31, 2015, 01:30:00 PM
the bottom line is this staff has really struggled to recruit reliable student athletes the past 2 years and now we are really stuck because of it....no time for blame...just get it fixed
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: ysufan0505 on March 31, 2015, 01:35:21 PM
So that's 6 players in the last year that have transferred out... TIME FOR A CHANGE. I don't care what excuse anybody comes up with. It's unnaceptable. I've never heard of a program have this many players transfer out. Joke.
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: ysufan0505 on March 31, 2015, 01:37:12 PM
It's a joke. Plain and simple and it all starts with the 2 men in charge, Mr Strollo and Mr Sloocum. Get ready for the home opener against Youngstown East in front of 100 people!
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: Penguin Nick on March 31, 2015, 01:44:07 PM
gbs20, I'm all for playing at the Covelli Centre if it's feasible.  You're right, many urban universities play at off campus arenas.  If YSU produced winners and had a solid home schedule, fans would come out in droves, including students.   
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: paladin on March 31, 2015, 02:46:38 PM
STROLLO...................... that's all that needs said
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: jbags on March 31, 2015, 03:40:19 PM
Strollo is not the problem....just about every other sport is doing fine...yes, mens basketball is a mess but Ron is not just the basketball AD....if someone would supply the $$ then Im quite sure that our program would have a new coach for the men...we are really stuck because this staff is recruiting for a new staff next year and that is never a good thing...we should start over now because more than half the team has left and a new coach could hit the ground running by recruiting to his liking ansd wouldnt be expected to win right away with so many new faces...we need a major overhaul now
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: Spiderlegs on March 31, 2015, 04:44:33 PM
I've always contended there should be 1 or 2 faculty assigned to each team as mentors, maybe more in football. This sometimes provides a stabilizing influence. YSU has a few faculty formally involved in athletics, but at such a level so that they aren't really interacting with the players. Of course, the YSU faculty union would probably object to this loudly claiming that faculty are being asked to do more work, so maybe it's not worth the hassle.
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: IAA Fan on March 31, 2015, 04:51:38 PM
Covelli was a problem when they built it and YSU is not the solution ...nor is the Covelli Center a solution for YSU. They ran out of donations and built Too Small. Why waste the time to drive the players/staff over there?

1. People feel safer on YSU campus.
2. Since the former Chevy Center is no larger; there is no way we can, or would, host anything larger than we already can at Beeghly.
3. Since GM dropped their association with the building, there is no longer any name recognition beyond Youngstown/Warren. I remember when the Ice Capades shot Frankie Vallie and the Four Seasons and also returned Pete Cetera (of Chicago and solo fame) at "the beautiful Chevy Center" in Youngstown, Ohio ...for a national viewing audience.  Now I realize that keeping the facility open is more important than the name on it, but it just lost it's flare.  YSU has a more broad name recognition.  When you guys talk about bigger schools playing off campus, you are also talking about facilities hosting major entertainment acts that people drive very long distances to see ...so the facility name means much more.
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: IAA Fan on March 31, 2015, 04:55:41 PM
I've always contended there should be 1 or 2 faculty assigned to each team as mentors, maybe more in football. This sometimes provides a stabilizing influence. YSU has a few faculty formally involved in athletics, but at such a level so that they aren't really interacting with the players. Of course, the YSU faculty union would probably object to this loudly claiming that faculty are being asked to do more work, so maybe it's not worth the hassle.

Good point and there is. It is actually required by the NCAA. Only I believe not assigned to a given sport, outside of the people responsible for tutoring. These professors are actual members of the Athletic Committee. My father was YSU faculty and part of that for many years.
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: guinpen on March 31, 2015, 05:45:08 PM
We don't know what really happened.  If these guys are quitting because they don't like Slocum, then yes, Slocum is the problem and Strollo needs to step in. There may also be something going on behind the scenes that we don't know about (academics, curfew violations, illegal substance abuse)--YSU athletics is very good about maintaining confidentiality on such things.


 

Well said
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: IAA Fan on March 31, 2015, 06:12:52 PM
http://www.si.com/college-basketball/2015/03/31/southern-illinois-basketball-players-transfer-five-players-leave-team

Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: ysufan0505 on March 31, 2015, 06:49:37 PM
Playing at the Covelli center will not do anything, especially if Slocum is still the coach. Beeghly is almost just as big.
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: Penguin Nick on March 31, 2015, 07:59:47 PM
1AA Fan, I disagree with what you are saying about the Covelli Centre.  First of all, once chair-back seats are put in Beeghly, the capacity will go down to probably 5,500-5,800 (educated guess).  The Covelli Centre can hold 6,000 for basketball, which includes lodges and has the potential to earn the Covelli Centre/YSU even more money; Secondly, the Covelli Centre is doing a tremendous job, bringing in national acts and has only gained in popularity over the years vs. losing it's flair.  People are obviously attending events at the Covelli, as it has earned a lot of money for the city; Third, the Covelli Centre and downtown is very safe, if people are afraid to go downtown then they mind as well never leave their house or just stay in suburbia.  YSU was supposed to play one big game at the Covelli Centre every year (the 2012 game was against Hiram but there were big plans for the future but I guess it fizzled - read Warren Tribune article below:
http://www.tribtoday.com/page/content.detail/id/577752/YSU-to-play-Hiram-in-first-event-at-Covelli-Centre.html?nav=5024
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: guinpen on March 31, 2015, 09:07:28 PM
Gee I cannot believe that our Faux Fans did not tell us that Strollo has been moonlighting at SIU
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: guinpen on March 31, 2015, 09:14:38 PM
The Covelli center should never be an option. Playing there will do nothing to help the program. Few enough students come to game as it is, so why make it harder for the ones that do? I am sure that the pep band will like hauling all there stuff over there. Lost parking revenue.

Like I said not an option
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: nova75 on March 31, 2015, 11:11:26 PM
If Hiram is considered a "big" game then that tells you all you need to know
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: YsuPride on April 01, 2015, 07:26:36 AM
Losing this many players is not due to players being homesick, playing time, etc.  It's more than that.  I hear from a few students close to the players that none of them like Slocum.  I also hear Bobby Hain may be leaving as well.  If anyone has a brain on this forum site how in gods name can you support a coach who has made a complete freaking mess of the program.   If you thought this year was bad wait until next year with 5 wins and a loss to a Div 2 team.    YSU men's basketball is the worst in Div 1.
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: gbs20 on April 01, 2015, 08:13:07 AM
The larger question is what are the goals for the mens basketball program and how can those goals be achieved.  If the goal is status quo, then YSU should keep doing what its doing. If the goal is to be in the upper half of the Horizon League and be in a position to compete for a post season tournament then YSU needs to do things differently.  The Covelli Center may not be feasible but it is an option that should be explored along with other changes.  I understand that this year may have been expected and that Slocom was extended partly for that reason but also out of respect for his career and his work at YSU.  He could have a successful season next year. If he retires, then what? Facilities, game environment, etc mean nothing without the right coach to lead the program.  If YSU is serious about the program, spending at least the league average on the next coach seems necessary. That will also require at some point spending an equal amount on the womens coach and further require upgrades to the salaries of assistants, travel budgets etc. Part of this can be covered by requiring more money games and this could be a condition of the new coach's hire.  An ambitious coach would not shy away from this.  It would require a substantial investment of new money in the program on the hope that it would pay off in new revenue.  By the way YSU alum Joe Lombardy just reached the D2 finals at IUP.   
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: ysufan0505 on April 01, 2015, 10:06:09 AM
Losing this many players is not due to players being homesick, playing time, etc.  It's more than that.  I hear from a few students close to the players that none of them like Slocum.  I also hear Bobby Hain may be leaving as well.  If anyone has a brain on this forum site how in gods name can you support a coach who has made a complete freaking mess of the program.   If you thought this year was bad wait until next year with 5 wins and a loss to a Div 2 team.    YSU men's basketball is the worst in Div 1.

+1
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: IAA Fan on April 01, 2015, 02:25:06 PM
1AA Fan, I disagree with what you are saying about the Covelli Centre.  First of all, once chair-back seats are put in Beeghly, the capacity will go down to probably 5,500-5,800 (educated guess).  The Covelli Centre can hold 6,000 for basketball, which includes lodges and has the potential to earn the Covelli Centre/YSU even more money; Secondly, the Covelli Centre is doing a tremendous job, bringing in national acts and has only gained in popularity over the years vs. losing it's flair.  People are obviously attending events at the Covelli, as it has earned a lot of money for the city; Third, the Covelli Centre and downtown is very safe, if people are afraid to go downtown then they mind as well never leave their house or just stay in suburbia.  YSU was supposed to play one big game at the Covelli Centre every year (the 2012 game was against Hiram but there were big plans for the future but I guess it fizzled - read Warren Tribune article below:
http://www.tribtoday.com/page/content.detail/id/577752/YSU-to-play-Hiram-in-first-event-at-Covelli-Centre.html?nav=5024

I see where you are coming from Nick, but a lot of what you say is coming from your heart. The reality is this ...no major act plays in a venue that holds less than 12k to 15k and most major venues hold up to 20k. There is a lot of ground between 6k and 20k. A Journey without Steve Perry plays Covelli (6k). Steve Perry without Journey plays at a local night club (1.2k). A relevant Journey (with Steve Perry) played Blossom or the Richfield Coliseum (25k+).
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: jbags on April 01, 2015, 03:35:02 PM
we went from fixing mens basketball to Steve Perry...unless Steve Perry is Kendrick's cousin and at least as good then who really cares where we play our games if no one comes. Youngstown College used to play their games at the downtown YMCA and might return there if someone doesnt fix the problem
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: ELPENGUIN on April 01, 2015, 05:08:23 PM
Guess I have no brain.  I support coach Slocum and his staff 100%.  "It is what it is"!
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: IAA Fan on April 01, 2015, 08:38:20 PM
Thought that I would bring up the fact that Wichita State's (in the MVC a mid-major conference that we profess to be equal to) head coach is re-negotiating his 1.75 million dollar contract, in an effort to ward-off Tennessee's courtship.
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: ValleyTalk on April 01, 2015, 10:09:07 PM
Thought that I would bring up the fact that Wichita State's (in the MVC a mid-major conference that we profess to be equal to) head coach is re-negotiating his 1.75 million dollar contract, in an effort to ward-off Tennessee's courtship.
???

Tennessee hired former Texas head coach Rick Barnes.
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: popsicle on April 01, 2015, 10:34:49 PM
Great comparison 1AA. You're comparing a coach who wins 30 games a year, sells 15000 tickets 15 times a year, ranks in the top 20 each year and competes for his conference title annually.....to a guy who has never won 30 games in a year( or two years combined), sells 1500 tickets max, won't even play top 20 teams, and hasn't sniffed the semifinals in his conference tourney! Stick to your Rock band comparisons you made on the other thread, that way I won't know if you know what you are talking about.
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: chezmustache on April 01, 2015, 11:51:41 PM
     Slocum lost three underclassmen to transfer at the conclusion of 2013 - 2014 (Weber, Steward and Beamon).  In February he dismissed Fletcher Larson from the team after almost five years in the program.  In the past three weeks the media reported four more underclassmen announced or indicated they will transfer.  The running count is eight of thirteen scholarships were vacated in the past twelve months, seven voluntarily.  This is not by accident or coincidence.  There is a cause.  It is management's job to identify the cause and address it.  That is the path any responsible business would follow.   

     Additionally, it was offered earlier in this thread Slocum's career record at YSU is something like 118 - 190.  If you discount games against teams the Penguins had no business playing (as RPI and Sagarin do), the record is closer to 95 - 190.  How can anyone mischaracterize a .333 winning percentage over a ten year time period as mediocre?         
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: IAA Fan on April 02, 2015, 08:48:45 AM
Great comparison 1AA. You're comparing a coach who wins 30 games a year, sells 15000 tickets 15 times a year, ranks in the top 20 each year and competes for his conference title annually.....to a guy who has never won 30 games in a year( or two years combined), sells 1500 tickets max, won't even play top 20 teams, and hasn't sniffed the semifinals in his conference tourney! Stick to your Rock band comparisons you made on the other thread, that way I won't know if you know what you are talking about.

It was a comment Popsicle. Meant to show the changing landscape of college basketball. The difference between the have's and have not's, etc. If I was intending to show that YSU needs to do this, then I would have said so. Then you can lock me up.

Secondly, I have never said I am happy with the state of affairs with YSU basketball. One thing that I will want to see, well before any talk about changing coaches, is the commitment from YSU. At that point I still feel that Slocum can lead this team in the those conditions. Quite frankly, as I mentioned previously, there are hirer priorities for YSU athletics and have been since about 1993 ...and I agree. If you want to talk specifics it has to be it's own topic without all the "fire Slocum" or "fire Strollo" crowd taking over.
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: ValleyTalk on April 02, 2015, 12:34:30 PM
I also hear Bobby Hain may be leaving as well.
Someone appears to be stirring the pot with baseless rumors.
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: jbags on April 02, 2015, 12:48:44 PM
I dont understand your comment about YSU's commitment to mens basketball...what do you truly want them to do? Do you think there was no commitment to basketball when the entire lobby to our facility was upgraded to a D1 level? The basketball weightroom? The media center and film room? And previously the locker room? Those are top notch dollars commited to upgrade the program. Perhaps you are talking about coach salaries and recruiting budgets..well we seem to have the dollars to recruit players from Florida, Kansas, Texas, Louisiana, and Indiana, not to mention Michigan. So it must be salaries. Granted, our head coach doesnt make nearly the money it takes to offer someone with "name" recognition, so we have to find someone with a good record that wants a chance at the D1 level (ie Slocum..Peters) or some asst. at a higher profile school that wants to run their own D1 program (ie Robic, Cleamons). I think the commitment is there but our choices havent always worked out. The fact that we now employ a lame duck HC that surely has one year left and a staff that seems to lack the juice to take over added to the fact that we have had an inordinate amount of defections lately paints a pretty bleak picture. What do you want administration to do to prove it has a commitment to our basketball program? Anybody? What's the answer?
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: Bob Rooney on April 02, 2015, 02:14:38 PM
I attended many games with JBags and his point is very valid. Going to a men's hoops game was an event. Now I can't even be bothered to watch the replay on TV. His offense is the same stale thing with the big guys out front passing the ball. They may as well since there is no post game to speak of anyhow. It was the best of times in Div.2, it is the worst of times in Div. 1.
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: IAA Fan on April 02, 2015, 10:32:29 PM
You have some good items jbags, that many of us forgot about with the commitment. With all the Strollo-trashing going on ...I would have thought there was not a dollar spent. I do not agree that Slocum is anything close to a "lame duck". A lame duck is someone that has not been re-elected ...not someone that has just be re-elected (ie: Slocum). He is your head-coach so everyone should learn to make you criticisms and suggestion that do not include the words fire Slocum. I wanted to lose coach W from the day he lost all of our defense ...basically the entire time he was here & I never once typed the words "fire Wofford".

Outside of this past season, I have liked the previous few years of MBB under Slocum. So now we know what Slocum is capable of doing and he now has to understand that we expect it. However, I will also add that we, as fans, need to show our support.
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: ysufan0505 on April 02, 2015, 11:56:38 PM
Lol and there in lies the problem. Some fans and administration are OK with being a below average basketball program.... Joke.
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: jbags on April 03, 2015, 08:19:07 AM
I will argue that he is a lame duck..he's on a 1 year extension and that's it...won't be extended...He will have 6 new scholarship players that he will coach only 1 season. Hard to get 3 solid recruits with them knowing that he will be gone ..it's a bad situation
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: ysuguins4 on April 03, 2015, 12:14:31 PM
Hey edpuskas,

Are there any higher-ups at the University that care about the state of this program?  I know Strollo won't let Jerry go because he hired him and his kid is on the team, but what about JT or any of the Trustees?  Surely someone with clout has to be upset with this fiasco.
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: ysufan0505 on April 03, 2015, 12:21:52 PM
Nobody wants to come see this team play at Beeghly. Why would they come to Covelli?
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: ysuguins4 on April 03, 2015, 12:42:04 PM
Jerry, please do the right thing and resign.
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: chezmustache on April 03, 2015, 02:04:01 PM
     A couple more telling facts. 

     Average home attendance decreased consistently during Slocum's tenure.  It reflects a clear consumer message the customer does not like the product and is not willing to pay for it.

     Slocum's record during February and March is 26 - 66.  This .282 winning percentage is even lower than his overall Division 1 winning percentage of .333.  February and March are the months during which the learning and experience of November, December and January should come together to yield a team playing at its highest level of the season.  Unfortunately, the record shows the competition is consistently doing a better job building and pointing their teams toward the conference tournament than the YSU coaches.   

     Lastly, there was discussion earlier in this thread about YSU administration commitment to men's basketball.  A poster called out to anyone in search for a path forward.  Could the template for success be the programs at Akron and Kent State?  They are in the same geographical area, have similar political/economic challenges, function within the same financial structure as other Ohio state universities, endure the same climate, etc.  They figured out men's basketball.  What do they know that we do not?  Or could it be "are they better at managing assets?"           

                  ave. home attendance         record on Feb/Mar
2014 - 2015             2,039                                   1 - 7
2013 - 2014             2,326                                   2 - 7
2012 - 2013             2,451                                   5 - 8
2011 - 2012             2,485                                   4 - 6
2010 - 2011             2,261                                   2 - 7
2009 - 2010             2,498                                   0 - 9
2008 - 2009             2,382                                   5 - 4
2007 - 2008             2,773                                   2 - 7
2006 - 2007             2,736                                   5 - 3
2005 - 2006             2,871                                   0 - 8
                                                                          26 - 66

     
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: ysufan0505 on April 03, 2015, 05:13:07 PM
Wow some great facts right there!! The time has come for Slocum to go, I'm sorry.
Title: Re: Marcus Keene, Osandi Vaughn leaving YSU
Post by: Penguin Nation on April 03, 2015, 06:08:40 PM
     A couple more telling facts. 

     Average home attendance decreased consistently during Slocum's tenure.  It reflects a clear consumer message the customer does not like the product and is not willing to pay for it.

     Slocum's record during February and March is 26 - 66.  This .282 winning percentage is even lower than his overall Division 1 winning percentage of .333.  February and March are the months during which the learning and experience of November, December and January should come together to yield a team playing at its highest level of the season.  Unfortunately, the record shows the competition is consistently doing a better job building and pointing their teams toward the conference tournament than the YSU coaches.   

     Lastly, there was discussion earlier in this thread about YSU administration commitment to men's basketball.  A poster called out to anyone in search for a path forward.  Could the template for success be the programs at Akron and Kent State?  They are in the same geographical area, have similar political/economic challenges, function within the same financial structure as other Ohio state universities, endure the same climate, etc.  They figured out men's basketball.  What do they know that we do not?  Or could it be "are they better at managing assets?"           

                  ave. home attendance         record on Feb/Mar
2014 - 2015             2,039                                   1 - 7
2013 - 2014             2,326                                   2 - 7
2012 - 2013             2,451                                   5 - 8
2011 - 2012             2,485                                   4 - 6
2010 - 2011             2,261                                   2 - 7
2009 - 2010             2,498                                   0 - 9
2008 - 2009             2,382                                   5 - 4
2007 - 2008             2,773                                   2 - 7
2006 - 2007             2,736                                   5 - 3
2005 - 2006             2,871                                   0 - 8
                                                                          26 - 66

     


This information should be provided by the local media, rather than Scalzo writing, "Stop sending me emails asking for Strollo to be fired."  The local media has zero credibility, IMO, and because of their timid and gutless "reporting", this squandering of >$1.3M of tax payer money continues essentially unchecked.  They are enablers and not reporters.  I wonder if the YSU Athletic Department threatens reporters with limited access if they are critical of YSU? 

Strong work Chez. 
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: IAA Fan on April 04, 2015, 08:19:11 AM
Too much basketball and negativity. I merged the topics. They are covering the same items.
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: IAA Fan on April 04, 2015, 09:42:56 AM
I like the info Chez; but no, I do not believe AU and KSU cannot be our models for success. That is unless we are looking for a conference move & commitment change. Sure I would love to luck into someone that could give YSU what Dambrot has given Akron. However, the truth is, Dambrot's record at CMU was nothing, so it was a big risk for Akron to hire him ...and being a local hero was probably the only reason it happened. How much is he he being paid? half-mil or so, based on performance for a small portion of that? KSU plays big-time basketball and more than one of the assistants makes more than Slocum ...let alone their HC.

AU football has a big $$/name coach with an 11-25-0 record and their previous coach won 5 games in 4-years of football. Akron is pushing football more than ever before and it has yet to show results. We will have to wait and see. Yet they are pushing football ...as are we.
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: popsicle on April 06, 2015, 09:19:42 PM
One thing has always confused me when it comes to you, 1AA. You are more content to invest in "B" movies, better known as 1AA football, when you have the stage to produce "A" movies, known as the NCAA tournament. Guess it all goes back to confidence. You have no confidence YSU can compete in basketball...yet still believe they can be the big dogs in football. You are willing to take no chances otherwise........yet won't admit that what was....was special......and will probably never occur again.......! Move forward and quit trying to reproduce the past.  Sequels always fail.
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: ysufan0505 on April 06, 2015, 10:14:51 PM
Problem is, a lot of these people are still living in the past. Still holding onto the I-AA titles in football some 20 years ago that no kid now a days was even born and remembers.

It is much, much easier to make the NCAA tournament now a days if you INVEST CORRECTLY in a basketball program. They have done that with the upgrades to Beeghly.

Strollo has invested all this money into the football program and has what to show for it? A win against Pitt 1st game of the season....

Trust me, I fully support the football program but we could have a solid basketball program here if the right leadership is in place (Not Slocum). Look at how far the women's program has come from the debacle of a WINLESS season just a couple years ago. Boldon and now Barnes. Young, up and coming coaches looking to prove something. Same can be done for the men's program. Time for a reality check for the AD and the whole athletic department.
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: edpuskas on April 06, 2015, 11:57:57 PM
Interesting to note: The last time the job came open, I thought YSU should have looked at Kevin Mackey. No less an authority than Larry Bird, who'd hired Mackey as a scout with the Indiana Pacers, gave me 20 minutes on the phone on a Saturday afternoon. Bird talked about what a great job Mackey was doing and how he'd paid his debt for the mistakes he made and deserved another chance as a college coach. I wrote as much in a column, but as far as I know, Mackey was never considered. The style of play Mackey employs would have put butts in the seats at Beeghly from the start and the name recognition in northeastern Ohio would also have helped the program. But hey, what do I know?

Also interesting to note: Disgraced former Baylor coach Dave Bliss is back in the game. But Kevin Mackey could never get another shot?
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: gbs20 on April 07, 2015, 07:57:22 AM
Maybe the chances of that happening now are greater since YSU has become the University of Second Chances for Coaches. (USCC)
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: Penguin Nation on April 07, 2015, 09:48:00 AM
I would have no problem with Kevin Mackey as the YSU MBB HC.

The Manute Bol issue is slightly worrisome, and the other issues concern me none.
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: jbags on April 07, 2015, 10:51:03 AM
Matt Donlon 6'7'' small forward from Iowa Western JC commits...originally from Melbourne Australia,  played 1 year at S. Dakota St. Seems like a decent get....also recruiting G Mike Davis from Lakeland CC who spent a year at N> Illinois...would also be a good sign...IMO still need to be all over Antwan Lilliard from Cleveland CC...I would feel a lot better with these 3 guys added to the 3 we signed early and the 7 footer that sat out last year...keep fingers crossed
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: ysuguins4 on April 07, 2015, 12:28:38 PM
Interesting to note: The last time the job came open, I thought YSU should have looked at Kevin Mackey. No less an authority than Larry Bird, who'd hired Mackey as a scout with the Indiana Pacers, gave me 20 minutes on the phone on a Saturday afternoon. Bird talked about what a great job Mackey was doing and how he'd paid his debt for the mistakes he made and deserved another chance as a college coach. I wrote as much in a column, but as far as I know, Mackey was never considered. The style of play Mackey employs would have put butts in the seats at Beeghly from the start and the name recognition in northeastern Ohio would also have helped the program. But hey, what do I know?

Also interesting to note: Disgraced former Baylor coach Dave Bliss is back in the game. But Kevin Mackey could never get another shot?

Glad you're still checking in.  Does anyone in administration or any of the big money donors give a rat's behind about men's basketball, or are they like most of the Mahoning Valley and apathetic towards it?
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: edpuskas on April 07, 2015, 12:50:04 PM
Interesting to note: The last time the job came open, I thought YSU should have looked at Kevin Mackey. No less an authority than Larry Bird, who'd hired Mackey as a scout with the Indiana Pacers, gave me 20 minutes on the phone on a Saturday afternoon. Bird talked about what a great job Mackey was doing and how he'd paid his debt for the mistakes he made and deserved another chance as a college coach. I wrote as much in a column, but as far as I know, Mackey was never considered. The style of play Mackey employs would have put butts in the seats at Beeghly from the start and the name recognition in northeastern Ohio would also have helped the program. But hey, what do I know?

Also interesting to note: Disgraced former Baylor coach Dave Bliss is back in the game. But Kevin Mackey could never get another shot?

Glad you're still checking in.  Does anyone in administration or any of the big money donors give a rat's behind about men's basketball, or are they like most of the Mahoning Valley and apathetic towards it?

I can't speak for any big-money people. I just don't get invited to those parties all that often. My view is that the administration cares, but the money isn't there to buy out a coach and then pay two guys, especially when the idea is perhaps to sweeten the contract down the road.

The defections from the program are troubling, though. I would think at some point YSU has to talk about what's happening and why.
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: penguinpower on April 07, 2015, 01:08:35 PM
Basket is irrelevant to me and many others.   Even with good teams attendance was bad in basketball
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: IAA Fan on April 07, 2015, 01:28:48 PM
I think the apathy is nationwide. Both the NBA and the college game is seeing steep declines in viewership. only 2.8% the Harris people rate college basketball as the #1 sport (8th place, even fell below NBA, car racing and the NHL; where college football is #3 behind the NFL and the MLB (11.8%). The NFL has never been out of 1st-place (averaging around 30%+), while the MLB passed up college football for the #2-spot. There is just over a 1% gap between college football and the MLB. While the gap between College basketball and college football is 11.8% to 2.8%. Clearly we need to sink ever penny we have into football, as I bet those numbers are even more widespread in NE Ohio. So nationwide, when you add up football, over half of the people consider the NFL or NCAA football the top sport.

I watch every Penguin MBB game I can, or at least listen (thank you YSU and iHeart radio). However, outside of that, I have little interest in college basketball. I have not watched an entire NBA game since the glory days of the Lakers ...I think I was pre-teen. It is to the point where I barely consider most NBA players athletes. I might add that it makes me even more disgusted when I see the salaries for the pros and the attitudes for both the collegiate and the NBA players ...but especially the collegiate players. So if you had to pick an area where coach Slocum might be at an age disadvantage ...it is here more than anywhere else. Everyone thinks they can be a star ...when the the odds of this happen are slim-to-none. Not one them seems to want to be a star in college.
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: ysufan0505 on April 07, 2015, 08:33:30 PM
I think the apathy is nationwide. Both the NBA and the college game is seeing steep declines in viewership. only 2.8% the Harris people rate college basketball as the #1 sport (8th place, even fell below NBA, car racing and the NHL; where college football is #3 behind the NFL and the MLB (11.8%). The NFL has never been out of 1st-place (averaging around 30%+), while the MLB passed up college football for the #2-spot. There is just over a 1% gap between college football and the MLB. While the gap between College basketball and college football is 11.8% to 2.8%. Clearly we need to sink ever penny we have into football, as I bet those numbers are even more widespread in NE Ohio. So nationwide, when you add up football, over half of the people consider the NFL or NCAA football the top sport.

I watch every Penguin MBB game I can, or at least listen (thank you YSU and iHeart radio). However, outside of that, I have little interest in college basketball. I have not watched an entire NBA game since the glory days of the Lakers ...I think I was pre-teen. It is to the point where I barely consider most NBA players athletes. I might add that it makes me even more disgusted when I see the salaries for the pros and the attitudes for both the collegiate and the NBA players ...but especially the collegiate players. So if you had to pick an area where coach Slocum might be at an age disadvantage ...it is here more than anywhere else. Everyone thinks they can be a star ...when the the odds of this happen are slim-to-none. Not one them seems to want to be a star in college.


LOL, what????
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: guinpen on April 07, 2015, 08:50:06 PM
Basket is irrelevant to me and many others.   Even with good teams attendance was bad in basketball

It has been a while but I have been at games that were packed, I know that some slam the D3 games but I had to sit in the last row of the bleachers for a game against then NAIA D2 Westminister. Point being that people will come out for a good program. But you have to spend money to make money, every empty seat is lost money.
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: Penguin Nation on April 07, 2015, 09:29:19 PM
The first round of the NCAA MBB tournament averages a 6.6 TV rating, whereas the FCS title game received a 0.7 rating (1.1 M viewers).

I'm not saying YSU MBB should be prioritzed over FB, although a strong argument can be made that it should.  But the acceptance of failure of MBB makes no sense.  Also, the attendance figures are falsely inflated.  I went to the Kennesaw State game, and we had our own section to ourselves.  The attendance was listed at 1,229.  The capacity is listed as 6,300.  No way 1/5 seats were filled.  I'd say actual fan attendance was ~300.
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: IAA Fan on April 07, 2015, 09:50:41 PM
I think the apathy is nationwide. Both the NBA and the college game is seeing steep declines in viewership. only 2.8% the Harris people rate college basketball as the #1 sport (8th place, even fell below NBA, car racing and the NHL; where college football is #3 behind the NFL and the MLB (11.8%). The NFL has never been out of 1st-place (averaging around 30%+), while the MLB passed up college football for the #2-spot. There is just over a 1% gap between college football and the MLB. While the gap between College basketball and college football is 11.8% to 2.8%. Clearly we need to sink ever penny we have into football, as I bet those numbers are even more widespread in NE Ohio. So nationwide, when you add up football, over half of the people consider the NFL or NCAA football the top sport.

I watch every Penguin MBB game I can, or at least listen (thank you YSU and iHeart radio). However, outside of that, I have little interest in college basketball. I have not watched an entire NBA game since the glory days of the Lakers ...I think I was pre-teen. It is to the point where I barely consider most NBA players athletes. I might add that it makes me even more disgusted when I see the salaries for the pros and the attitudes for both the collegiate and the NBA players ...but especially the collegiate players. So if you had to pick an area where coach Slocum might be at an age disadvantage ...it is here more than anywhere else. Everyone thinks they can be a star ...when the the odds of this happen are slim-to-none. Not one them seems to want to be a star in college.


LOL, what????

yep. In my mind, the game never kept up with the changing players. I never missed a home Pride game for 2 seasons. I was on campus waiting for my father in a night class. The level of athleticism there was above any NBA player ...well above.

Think about it ...
In today's NBA there is no defense, players basically travel with every possession of the ball, there is not even enough talent for a lay-up, they refuse to push the net up to 14.5' (which is about where it should be using the average height of players today vs when the game first established the 11'). I just do not see it. I mean guys under 6' tall used to get such elevation going to the basket. Today most players do not need to fully extend their arm ...let alone body. Certainly there is a skill in shooting, but the average ghetto kid does not go to school ...he just shoots all day, then no matter how undereducated he is ...he knows he has his college at least partially paid for once he gets to 80% ...problem is ..he need someone else to calculate the percentage. Yet they won't refine the game to attract a better class of athlete. They just continually make the game more and more like street ball. They want every game to have 100+ to 100+ scores. Could not be anymore boring as they lower the athleticism of the game to meet the players, because 7' people cannot jump.
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: ysufan0505 on April 08, 2015, 09:27:30 AM
My lord I-AA... I've seen you say some out of the box things. This is unreal! Hahahahahaha. The Pride?!?

NBA has THE most athletes out of any sport there is. Timmy Legler sure is more athletic than Lebron though ;)
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: popsicle on April 08, 2015, 12:24:33 PM
1AA........open your mouth and remove all doubt. Geez....I can't believe what you posted. Sarcasm, I hope? The rim is at 10'....not 11. And as for the kid who works to get to 80% shooting?......sign him up w/ Slocum! I will personally fund his scholarship, take his classes for him and attend all games! Of course, it will only last one year...until he gets fed up with the program, coaching, apathy, environment etc...and transfers out.
By the way....where are your football seats located.....the 110 yard line?
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: ysuguins4 on April 08, 2015, 12:28:30 PM
In Slocum's 10 years, the Guins' highest finish in the league was 5th in 06-07.  They've finished 6th 3 times, 7th once, and 9th or 10th the other 5 years.  They have never made it to the semi-finals of the HL tournament, which means they have never won back to back games in the tournament.  As bad as UIC was this past season, they managed to win back to back games and advance to the semi-finals.  Here is the number of semi-final appearances by team over the past 10 years.

Butler - 7
Green Bay - 6
CSU - 6
WSU - 5
Valpo - 5
Milwaukee - 4
Detroit - 3
UIC - 2
Loyola - 2
Oakland - 0 (only been in the league 2 years)
YSU - A BIG FAT ZERO
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: IAA Fan on April 08, 2015, 01:18:18 PM
In Slocum's 10 years, the Guins' highest finish in the league was 5th in 06-07.  They've finished 6th 3 times, 7th once, and 9th or 10th the other 5 years.  They have never made it to the semi-finals of the HL tournament, which means they have never won back to back games in the tournament.  As bad as UIC was this past season, they managed to win back to back games and advance to the semi-finals.  Here is the number of semi-final appearances by team over the past 10 years.

Butler - 7
Green Bay - 6
CSU - 6
WSU - 5
Valpo - 5
Milwaukee - 4
Detroit - 3
UIC - 2
Loyola - 2
Oakland - 0 (only been in the league 2 years)
YSU - A BIG FAT ZERO


Let's use those same teams and list all of them that have a football team that supports more than 8 scholarships? 1 = YSU. You cannot deny it, that changes everything ...top-to-bottom. Hey lobby the NCAA to drop title-IX and when we still have this performance out of MBB ...I will change my vote.

Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: Wick250 on April 08, 2015, 01:20:05 PM
I have ignored this forum for ten weeks.  It is somehow refreshing to see that the craziness still prevails.  Anyway back to the topic at hand, YSU basketball.

First, Slocum has a tough job.  He not only operates with monetary restrictions but also lacks a local recruiting base.  High school basketball in the Mahoning Valley stinks compared to the rest of Ohio; it stinks badly compared to the regions of America that are basketball hot spots.  Given these restrictions, I could almost tolerate a program that kept and graduated its players and won about half its games.  Obviously that is not the case.  Constant failure on the court is now accompanied by instability and occasional chaos within the program. 

What makes Slocum's shortcomings more obvious is the success of Boldon and Barnes.  The women's coach is also poorly paid by Horizon league standards and has a poor recruiting budget.  But look at what Barnes just accomplished on the recruiting trail.  Five kids, all from Ohio.  FOUR first team all-state selections.  Also a third team all-state selection who is still probably, relatively speaking, better than any Slocum OHIO recruit.

Finally, on the matter of football versus basketball, I would suggest that television ratings are irrelevant.  Millions of Americans watch sports on tv but they are not active fans who would attend an event.  In 2007, the Ohio High School Athletic Association hired the Scarborough group to survey the percentages of Ohioans who actually went to a sports event during the year 2006.  Here are the results:

26.3% high school sports
21.8% major league baseball
 8.4% pro football
 5.7% college football
 3.7% pro basketball
 2.8% college basketball
 2.2% pro hockey
 0.8% pro soccer

These figures were, of course, for the entire state of Ohio.  I suspect the number of active college basketball fans in northeast Ohio is considerably smaller.  These figures suggest that allocating more resources to YSU basketball would not yield an impressive increase in attendance.
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: IAA Fan on April 08, 2015, 01:29:10 PM
1AA........open your mouth and remove all doubt. Geez....I can't believe what you posted. Sarcasm, I hope? The rim is at 10'....not 11. And as for the kid who works to get to 80% shooting?......sign him up w/ Slocum! I will personally fund his scholarship, take his classes for him and attend all games! Of course, it will only last one year...until he gets fed up with the program, coaching, apathy, environment etc...and transfers out.
By the way....where are your football seats located.....the 110 yard line?

Sorry on the net height, but does not change anything I said. BTW, I said 80% , clearly I meant charity tosses. BTW, 80% at the line should be written in stone. YSU is what it is ...the environment is never going to change. We are not some picturesque, or big city, campus. You can make coach comments all day (as most of you posting in this thread do), but you are not helping anything ...who are you trying to convince? Me, Slocum, Strollo, recruits, current players? All you do is chase people away from the board, give Slocum and Strollo a chuckle or yawn, scare away recruits and create animosity among players. Luckily they have learned not to read the board.


Look at the current conversations for changes in the NFL? They think that they have enough votes to eliminate the extra-point. Why because it is too simple. Even though they know that the proper thing to do is move the kicking distance back so that it is not as simple. If you look at the average male height back when basketball was invented ...it was about 5'3. The basket was set to 10' ...in part because of the height of barn doors. None the less, that is 53% of the height of the rim. Now if you take a guy that is 7' tall, his hoop height should be 13.71' feet tall, just to accomplish the same athletic feats.
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: jbags on April 08, 2015, 03:25:28 PM
What did this subject turn into?! Somebody turned this into a whole bunch of meaningless stats....no one ever asked me what I watch on tv so I dont believe a word of what sport has falling numbers. As far as NBA basketball is concerned, has anyone ever watched an NBA Classic game? Scores were 125-120 not because the players shot the ball better or made 80% of their free throws...no...watch closely...no one ever played any defense..ever...Ive never seen so many open looks...the subject is the state of YSU's mens basketball program...no one goes because they dont win..period
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: popsicle on April 12, 2015, 08:04:01 PM
Just curious......anyone know what UWGB paid their new coach?
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: Penguin Nation on April 12, 2015, 09:04:31 PM
Just curious......anyone know what UWGB paid their new coach?

From Deadspin.com:

 "...annual salary of $133,132 plus another $70,000 in outside income..."


"University of Wisconsin—Green Bay men's basketball coach Brian Wardle made news last month when it got out that he may have made his players run hills so much that one of his players, Ryan Bross, shat his pants, and that he may have then proceeded to heckle the poor pants-sh**ter all season long."


http://deadspin.com/college-hoops-coach-who-made-players-run-until-one-poop-509889252
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: IAA Fan on April 12, 2015, 09:19:20 PM
He denied being hired yesterday. He says he has not even been to UWGB, but did not deny talking with them. With his three bonuses, he made over $100k at a DII school.
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: guinpen on April 12, 2015, 09:19:45 PM
Just curious......anyone know what UWGB paid their new coach?

From Deadspin.com:

 "...annual salary of $133,132 plus another $70,000 in outside income..."


"University of Wisconsin—Green Bay men's basketball coach Brian Wardle made news last month when it got out that he may have made his players run hills so much that one of his players, Ryan Bross, shat his pants, and that he may have then proceeded to heckle the poor pants-sh**ter all season long."


http://deadspin.com/college-hoops-coach-who-made-players-run-until-one-poop-509889252

More than I needed to know, just saying
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: popsicle on April 13, 2015, 06:08:51 PM
Guess it goes to show.......you can win without a "top paid" coach. Bonuses? What a novel idea. Think the value of the bonus would be more than offset by the benefit the university recognize? Utter brilliance!
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: Penguin Nation on April 13, 2015, 07:33:48 PM
Five year old data.  If accurate, we weren't being as outspent by other HL members as I was led to believe.

http://uicflames.proboards.com/thread/2422
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: popsicle on April 13, 2015, 09:07:49 PM
Lots of numbers to digest, Penguin. Don't rock the boat.....shatter the dream....blow the smoke away. Mirrors and smoke have fooled many a "viewers" over the years. Often times hard to digest the "facts"....that's why we rely on stats so much today......they can be formed....like clay....to be whatever item you want to portray.
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: popsicle on April 13, 2015, 09:35:02 PM
Better yet...after doing the math....get rid of "tweedle-dee" and "tweedle-dum" and you can apply the $111,000 in savings to Slocum's pay. They don't seem to be allowed a whole lot of input.....and Slocum could be rewarded accordingly. Of course though.....who would do the post game interviews with Rob?
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: IAA Fan on April 13, 2015, 10:41:25 PM
Guess it goes to show.......you can win without a "top paid" coach. Bonuses? What a novel idea. Think the value of the bonus would be more than offset by the benefit the university recognize? Utter brilliance!

Don't know of any program that does not do it ...Slocum has bonuses in his agreement.
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: IAA Fan on April 13, 2015, 10:46:18 PM
Five year old data.  If accurate, we weren't being as outspent by other HL members as I was led to believe.

http://uicflames.proboards.com/thread/2422

Valpo's Drew Bryce getting paid only 112k ...yeah maybe per month or quarter.
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: Penguin Nation on April 14, 2015, 09:09:39 AM
Three year old data of total HC salaries (bonuses included) of teams in the 2012 NCAA tournament:

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/story/2012-03-28/ncaa-coaches-salary-database/53827374/1

A few notables:

Vermont  $170K
SDSU      $150K
The Griz   $166K
Norfolk st.   $125.5K
MS Val St    $87.5K
Lamar  $150K

It looks like HC salary isn't the only variable regarding the success of a D1 MBB program. 

It is interesting that YSU could afford gems like Barnes, Bolden, and Tressel....but we must languish in failure with Slocum.

Here's a Vindy article from when Slocum's contract was renewed titled, "Like it or not, Slocum will return."

http://www.vindy.com/news/2011/mar/02/like-it-or-not-slocum-will-return/

Some excerpts from that article:
 
"...it’s also hard to argue that Slocum is the school’s long-term answer.

He makes no effort to build relationships with fans or boosters — something Robic, as prickly as he was, at least tried to do — and he’s even worse with the media."

"He’s also struggled to keep players. Six have left in the last 12 months, with another, Devonte Maymon, likely to leave after this season. If you make the argument that most of them needed to go — something I’ve heard — well, who recruited them in the first place?"

"More surprising, there doesn't seem to be any outrage from fans, boosters or school officials about the sad state of the basketball program.

Until enough people speak up and the school decides to make a strong financial commitment to fielding a competitive basketball team, the Penguins will continue to pay rent in the Horizon League’s basement."

Four years ago, it was apparent that we had a HC that couldn't retain players he put the time and expense into recruiting and developing, and puts no effort into public relations....and who doesn't win.

Not surprisingly, we have the same deficiencies four years later.  His contract renewal assured four more years of failure.

Scalzo's comment about the lack of outrage is interesting.  The expression of outrage, IMO, was fans quietly distancing themselves from the debacle known as YSU MBB. 

The AD's renewal of Slocum's and Heacock's contracts doomed those revenue generating programs for years, and those gross errors in judgment have gone unanswered.

The Athletic Department is under the purview of the University President, and gross misuse of University resources in the Athletic Department should concern President Tressel.  I applaud his efforts to get BP here, but allowing MBB, the second revenue generating sport at YSU to remain adrift is very disappointing.  Maybe we are chained to Slocum for another year, but the guy that chained us to him, knowing he was underperforming (see the Vindy article), should be held accountable.

An by accountable.....I mean fired.




Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: jbags on April 14, 2015, 09:39:27 AM
It seems we are all beating a dead horse here...our MBB HC is not going to quit nor are we firing him...all this salary talk is pointless until next March when we will have a search commitee for a new coach...this staff will have a hard time finding recruits to fill the remaining slots so we might be below the scholarship limit..the only thing that should concern us at this point is retaining the players we do have and the next wave of newcomers...as far as the next HC goes, we will need to find a guy that doesnt honestly care about his own salary but about his recruiting budget...someone that just wants a shot to run a D1 program and is honestly looking at this job as a stepping stone...win here and everyone will be after him...our next hire must be a correct one
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: ScarletRook on April 14, 2015, 09:53:47 AM
Quote
It seems we are all beating a dead horse here...our MBB HC is not going to quit nor are we firing him...all this salary talk is pointless until next March when we will have a search commitee for a new coach...

Next March?  I take it that you are optimistic about getting win #700 THIS season.
Hey, there is always Bob Knight.. He is only 74, but could turn the program around for the next coach.
This of course is all TIC but things must turn around.
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: paladin on April 15, 2015, 11:46:45 AM
PN,  you are correct. Yet Strollo should have been fired years ago. As inept  as he is as an AD, those in power have shown themselves to be even more inept  in not doing so. Lately, over the  last few years, people have stopped coming to games. I stopped two years ago in coming to BB games. This past season, I missed all of FB. I don't ever plan on coming back  while he is the AD. There are a lot of folks who feel the same way. I go back to the early Tressel years and saw all the championships. I saw most of the BB going back to Rice. But you have to be a clown not to acknowledge something has been seriously wrong since Strollo became AD. Poor coach choices. Poor personal contract administrations. Poor OOC scheduling . Poor promotions. Poor minor sports. His administration over  his time is full of screw-ups and little to show for it  over the years.

People realize they have little say in his retention , so they, like me, resort to their only means of control -- stop buying tickets and coming. No more Penguin Club  seats for me in FB. No tickets to BB. The farce has gone on far too long. I had enough of   poor BB . And while I stopped last season with FB, the latest HC hire is a fiasco, along with his brother and a religious nutbag assistant coach.  The  list will simply  continue to grow as people throw in the towel and walk away from YSU athletics in numbers.   
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: ysuguins4 on April 15, 2015, 12:00:07 PM
In Slocum's 10 years, the Guins' highest finish in the league was 5th in 06-07.  They've finished 6th 3 times, 7th once, and 9th or 10th the other 5 years.  They have never made it to the semi-finals of the HL tournament, which means they have never won back to back games in the tournament.  As bad as UIC was this past season, they managed to win back to back games and advance to the semi-finals.  Here is the number of semi-final appearances by team over the past 10 years.

Butler - 7
Green Bay - 6
CSU - 6
WSU - 5
Valpo - 5
Milwaukee - 4
Detroit - 3
UIC - 2
Loyola - 2
Oakland - 0 (only been in the league 2 years)
YSU - A BIG FAT ZERO


Let's use those same teams and list all of them that have a football team that supports more than 8 scholarships? 1 = YSU. You cannot deny it, that changes everything ...top-to-bottom. Hey lobby the NCAA to drop title-IX and when we still have this performance out of MBB ...I will change my vote.

I agree that does make it more difficult, but with a good coach it would not be impossible.
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: jbags on April 15, 2015, 12:48:17 PM
As I stated in an earlier post, too much blame for all the concerns people have is placed on Strollo...do you really  think that he had nothing to do with the huge upgrades in the athletic facilities? Beautiful track, and soccer field, perfect little softball venue and all the upgrades to our basketball facility. The WATTS center, though not his baby, occured under his tenure. So if we can blame him for everything under the sun should we not also give him any credit for that building? Coaches make the schedules through their networking, AD's just firm up the dates and the dollars. Ron Strollo is not the problem. Far from it. Our football program went down since Coach JT left because the ensuing coaches werent Coach JT. As far as bad-mouthing Bo, he brought back the Nebraska program after Callahan just about made it irrelevant. Haters are going to hate, and bandwagon jumpers hop on and off depending on success. The plan Strollo had after Robic was a solid one, but it seems the choice was wrong. The next basketball hire will tell the tale..did Strollo not make 2 great hires for our women? Or doesnt he get any credit for that? Everything has improved at YSU except a few team records, yet Strollo gets next to no credit but all of the blame. Blinders dont allow some folks to see the entire picture.
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: paladin on April 15, 2015, 02:02:09 PM
The "tale" has already been "told" . That's a major reason people have left attending YSU games . It will keep going down. The AD is a loser.

It always starts at the top.
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: jbags on April 15, 2015, 03:01:55 PM
like a good friend of mine always says.."He don't know that he don't know"
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: Penguin Nation on April 15, 2015, 03:14:57 PM
Every NCAA and NAIA school does facility upgrades. Many do enormously more than YSU.

Also, you don't (other than YSU) get to do part of your job well, for a few years, and be inept at the most important aspects of your job.

Stonehenge, the pyramids, and Strollo not being fired. True mysteries of mankind.
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: jbags on April 15, 2015, 03:27:49 PM
I still dont understand all the venom....what would any of you naysayers do differently? And dont say you would hire a different coach...hindsight is always 20/20...a bad AD hires crooks and does some phoney baloney with funds or totally ignores upgrades when they are available...what has he really done wrong? A good AD doesnt make knee jerk decisions because of some losing seasons, he uncovers reasons and if they are valid enough he takes action...we will have a new MBB coach next season..put away the rakes and torches...if you arent loyal to the U then stay away...no loss
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: Penguin Nation on April 15, 2015, 04:01:34 PM
I still dont understand all the venom....what would any of you naysayers do differently? And dont say you would hire a different coach...hindsight is always 20/20...a bad AD hires crooks and does some phoney baloney with funds or totally ignores upgrades when they are available...what has he really done wrong? A good AD doesnt make knee jerk decisions because of some losing seasons, he uncovers reasons and if they are valid enough he takes action...we will have a new MBB coach next season..put away the rakes and torches...if you arent loyal to the U then stay away...no loss

Look at the 2011 Scalzo article I posted earlier in the thread. It describes clear and obvious deficiencies of Slocum, and Strollo renewed his contract anyway. The best predictor of future performance is past performance. Strollo doomed MBB for another five years.

Would I have renewed the contracts of proven failures? No way, and these are easy decisions to make.
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: paladin on April 15, 2015, 04:10:22 PM
bags -- read carefully. I attended for decades and have stopped coming. So have others. Reason -- Strollo.  Read carefully  -- who gives a sh!t. Since YSU obviously doesn't, neither should we.   Read carefully -- no more ticket purchases and no attending games. Me and many, many others. And it will continue.

Keep Strollo. Be happy

But accept the consequences.
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: IAA Fan on April 15, 2015, 09:13:42 PM
Sounds good to me Pally. I will be happy to accept the consequences of keeping Strollo for a longtime to come; as will most people on and off campus. You have nothing new to offer. Always fire a coach or staff member ...gets old real quick buddy. People leave the board because of you ...and just about every one of them asks me to fire you. Fire Strollo ...heard it. Fire Slocum ...heard it. Wolford was the greatest coach of all time once we canned him; but before then he should have been fired ...heard that as well. You and a few other on here accuse others of trolling, but you are more than guilty of it yourselves.

BTW ...I am going to start removing these "fire people comments" all you want to do is push it to the top & I will not have the board ruined because people offer no real solutions.
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: jbags on April 16, 2015, 06:50:19 AM
AMEN!
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: gbs20 on April 16, 2015, 07:46:45 AM
These boards and other social media are no different than bars and then talk radio.  People express their opinions whether rational are not.  Sometimes people go over the edge just to get attention. It goes with the territory.  The only difference is that in these forums things are in print which seems to give them a sense of credibility and permanence that the the opinions themselves dont deserve. Years ago I took a teaching workshop. One of the points that has stuck with me was that the best way to deal with ridiculous statements from students was silence. Just let the statements sink of their own weight and trust everyone to recognize them for what they are.  Argument and other punitive actions just encourages them. 
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: jbags on April 16, 2015, 08:22:20 AM
"I see nuthink...I know nuthink...I dont even know if I got up this mornink!" Sgt. Shultz 1944
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: Penguin Nation on April 16, 2015, 08:26:59 AM
Looks like we will play Kent State at Kent State in the Coach Peters tournament.  I hope this becomes an annual event.

https://twitter.com/danabalash21/status/588451602878566400
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: Penguin Nation on April 16, 2015, 11:23:38 AM
BTW ...I am going to start removing these "fire people comments" all you want to do is push it to the top & I will not have the board ruined because people offer no real solutions.

I'm all for censoring out attacks of a personal nature.  However, I can't suggest a solution to the poor performance of our AD or MBB HC (the solution obviously being replace them with someone competent)? 

The comments I've made were strictly regarding their performance, and I've supported my statements with statistics and links to articles.

They may seem repetitive, but so are the losing seasons and the player defections.

We are only allowed to post opinions that you don't strongly oppose?
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: ValleyTalk on April 16, 2015, 11:48:43 AM
Looks like we will play Kent State at Kent State in the Coach Peters tournament.  I hope this becomes an annual event.

https://twitter.com/danabalash21/status/588451602878566400
It will be an annual event. My sources told me it was at YSU this year, but perhaps maybe next year? We do have a nice out-of-conference road game at a big school next year that I am excited about as well!
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: ysufan0505 on April 17, 2015, 10:55:58 AM
Sources tell me another loss is coming against Kent ;)
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: IAA Fan on April 17, 2015, 11:22:37 AM
BTW ...I am going to start removing these "fire people comments" all you want to do is push it to the top & I will not have the board ruined because people offer no real solutions.

I'm all for censoring out attacks of a personal nature.  However, I can't suggest a solution to the poor performance of our AD or MBB HC (the solution obviously being replace them with someone competent)? 

The comments I've made were strictly regarding their performance, and I've supported my statements with statistics and links to articles.

They may seem repetitive, but so are the losing seasons and the player defections.

We are only allowed to post opinions that you don't strongly oppose?

Nope, say what ever you want as-long-as they stay in one thread & do not pop up in everything people say. There is not a single thread here (that has more than1-post in it) that does not attack Strollo or Slocum. Most of us are sick of it. We see a possibly good topic to read and it really on good post, with the same old anti-YSU crap. People tell me they are afraid to post & others just stop posting all together. Others are sick of reading. Then people on the board discuss apathy based on performance, when it is really based on the negativism they read here day after day and their fear to say anything. You can think it is because everyone feels the same way that you do, but your are quite mistaken. The real reason is that these type of posts have chased everyone away so there is no one left that has a different opinion.

How would you like to be a die-hard fan and have your team "trashed" day after day? If I was our competition, I would be laughing my back-side off.
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: Wick250 on April 17, 2015, 12:16:35 PM
IAA Fan,

Thank goodness that you finally "get it."  I stopped reading and posting for ten weeks because I was fed up with a certain well-known hater that had the audacity to trash our new football coach, a man who did nothing but win nine games or more in the Big Ten Conference.  I know several other dedicated YSU fans who stopped reading because of the constant hate and venom.  And that is not counting the loss of two of the best posters of all time, Italian Penguin and YSU Indy.   Please return this message board to a place that welcomes and nurtures real YSU fans, uncontaminated by the haters.

Consider also that Jim Tressel is nobody's fool.  That man is busting his butt promoting YSU far and wide.  He has been relentless in his capacity as public relations agent for the university.  I assure you that he at least indirectly knows about the nature of the comments on the university's only athletic fan site.  Do you think he is amused that this fan site grants a forum to YSU haters?
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: popsicle on April 17, 2015, 10:48:38 PM
"Grants a forum". Really? "Haters".......anyone with a differing opinion? WOW.....my bad.
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: YsuPride on April 18, 2015, 08:34:27 AM
Add Larry Johnson Jr to the list of transfers.  That makes it 5 so far in the past month.  You are living in another world if you think the program is in good shape.  We will be lucky to win 5 games next year.
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: Penguin Nation on April 18, 2015, 08:55:03 AM
Add Larry Johnson Jr to the list of transfers.  That makes it 5 so far in the past month.  You are living in another world if you think the program is in good shape.  We will be lucky to win 5 games next year.

If you care about YSU athletics....wouldn't you ask, "why?".

If you want YSU sports to succeed, and have the mental capacity to perform critical analysis, wouldn't it make sense to set the pom poms down.....just for a little while....and identify the problem....and seek a solution?

Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: paladin on April 18, 2015, 12:00:51 PM
That requires critical thinking, PN.  ;D

Not here. Cheerleaders here with short skirts and big boobs only.

The decision was made to hire the MBB coach. Then rehire him. And then rehire him again. Nothing wrong here.
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: IAA Fan on April 18, 2015, 01:30:56 PM
Paladin does not need to ask "why"? He knows everything
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: ysufan0505 on April 18, 2015, 03:27:37 PM
We may not have enough guys to field a complete roster this year... LOL. JOKE.
Title: Re: State of men’s basketball
Post by: IAA Fan on April 18, 2015, 09:50:49 PM
So the two (or eh whatever) of you plan on keeping this thread at the top. Sorry this topic is locked. We just had a spring football game and the LAST thing anyone wants to hear about is men's basketball. Do you have to ruin everything?