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Non-YSU Sports and Other => General BS => Topic started by: Lets_Talk on February 09, 2015, 12:40:05 PM

Title: Backlash over Ron Brown hiring has already started
Post by: Lets_Talk on February 09, 2015, 12:40:05 PM
For people who thought I was making an issue out of nothing with my posts regarding the hiring of Ron Brown, you might want to think again. Here is a link to a Jambar article. Last week, The Jambar received three letters to the editor from a student, SGA representatives and a YSU chair and professor.

I know many of you who post on this site are on the conservative side, with several being 30 or older. I also know that Youngstown, Ohio is not exactly a bastion of equality and inclusion. Having said that, times are changing. The youth of today, even in an area such as Youngstown/Warren are much more open minded and accepting of people. It is only Feb 9th, and already 3 individuals have sent letters to The Jambar in opposition to the hiring of Ron Brown. Two are from students, with one of those being a representative of Student Government. The third is from a professor who is also a department chair. YSU is already having a hard time coming to an agreement on new contracts with Faculty and ACE. It's easy to see how this hire could become yet another sticking point in those negotiations. And, it would not surprise me at all to see ACLU of Ohio intervening in the same way the ACLU did at Nebraska.

http://www.thejambar.com/a-damning-silence-on-ron-brown/
A DAMNING SILENCE ON RON BROWN

Last week, The Jambar received three letters to the editor from a student, SGA representatives and a YSU chair and professor. Yes, you heard that right. The Jambar received three whole letters in a single week and, potentially more revolutionary, all the letters were in reference to the same controversy — gasp. So what exactly has lit a fire under the collective a$$ of the YSU community? The hiring of Ron Brown as the new YSU a$$istant coach.

Dwarfing the locker room controversy that surrounded Pelini’s introduction into the university, Ron Brown is known for somewhat neolithic views on the homosexual community and a love of expressing those beliefs publicly; an evangelical Christian who was known to preach to his team. He has also told the a$$ociated Press, “that based on the Bible, homosexuality, the lifestyle of homosexuality, is a sin.” It isn’t exactly surprising that he stirred up some controversy on college campuses.

Though YSU’s athletics department has remained tight-lipped about the whole affair and an official announcement has been made, Ron Brown himself has confirmed his role as the new a$$istant coach. He is, apparently, currently working on campus.

But this editorial isn’t about denouncing this man’s views and their latent threat to YSU, something the letters to the editor accomplished already, but it is about YSU’s response to the obvious controversy. Or, should we say, their lack of response.

This whole turgid affair is representative of a noxious trend that can be identified out of this incident.

The YSU administration and Board of Trustees’ methodology, in recent memory, has been to act almost entirely unilaterally and with apparent impressive disregard for the opinion of the community.

Despite the letters to the editor, incendiary debates appearing on social media and a recent vote of ‘no confidence’ in the Academic Senate against the provost, we are not going to pretend that the majority of the student body is wracked with indignant rage over this hiring — we aren’t even sure if a majority know about it. It isn’t the number of voices involved in the controversy; it’s about the nature of the controversy. There have been valid concerns of possible discrimination; and, fundamentally, this is a concern that could involve conflicting rights — of free speech and the separation of church and state.

That isn’t a situation where you put your hands over your ears and scream “LALALA” until everyone shuts up and goes home; it isn’t an issue where you let responses and a$$urances trickle out slowly.

This is the brand of controversy that you tackle head-on. This is the type of controversy where you are happy to answer our calls because you want to a$$ure worried students and professors that there will be no discrimination or state-sponsored evangelizing allowed at your university.

Even if this response was a simple decoy to silence naysayers, at least it is something. Silence is so much worse. It tells concerned parties that the issue is not worth your time, and, by extension, the individual presenting the problem is not worth your time.


And this isn’t an isolated incident. Last year, during the selection process for President Tressel, the Board of Trustees was the only entity represented on the search committee. Though this is not unusual at other universities, it is an odd break from the YSU tradition to include Board members, professors and students on the search committee.

Then, on the same day that the YSU faculty union, YSU-OEA, was to vote on the tentative contract, YSU decided to fire Coach Eric Wolford. Part of Wolford’s contract stipulated that he receive a buyout of $100,000 upon dismissal unless he received a job within the next year. Wolford ended up receiving a job with the 49ers, and the sum of his salary there will reduce the sum of his buyout.

Nonetheless, the faculty knew one thing when he was removed — there was a possibility that YSU was paying $100,000 on athletics in the midst of accusations that YSU was more concerned with athletics than academics. It is pure foolishness to make this decision on the day of an important vote during an extremely contentious faculty negotiation.

No wonder that in every interview with Gabriel Palmer-Fernandez, YSU-OEA’s chief negotiator and a professor at YSU, he says the same thing: YSU is depriving faculty of shared governance of the university. In addition, the total weight of the YSU community’s opinion seems to be diminishing.

If acting unilaterally is going to be the flavor of the next few years, you could at least capitulate to one demand and be more transparent with these decisions. Give us some warning of your intentions so it at least feels like our opinions could potentially have an impact — not just cannon fire after the battle has long been decided for us. Don’t get us wrong, this isn’t really enough, but at least, “no legacy is so rich as honesty.”

We hope that YSU just has an image problem, and they care deeply about the opinion of the YSU community; they remain silent or obstinate only because they have a masterwork plan that we plebeians could simply not understand.

To everyone looking in, though, it sure seems that YSU’s head doesn’t much care about the opinion of the rest of its body.
Title: Re: Backlash over Ron Brown hiring has already started
Post by: penguinpower on February 09, 2015, 12:48:52 PM
The Jambar shouldn't have written this. Not sure if there is an controversy.  Instead, what they should have written is that everyone has to accept everyone else and just because you don't like someone else's views doesn't mean you don't accept them.  There are multiple angles to this:  Straights that hate Gays, Gays that hate straights and everyone else like Gays that don't mind straights and straights that don't mind gay's.  Because universities are centers of poisonous liberalism you are getting the backlash.  Liberals are accepting as long as you don't disagree with them.
Title: Re: Backlash over Ron Brown hiring has already started
Post by: ysufan0505 on February 09, 2015, 01:02:19 PM
Blah blah.
Title: Re: Backlash over Ron Brown hiring has already started
Post by: Penguin Nation on February 09, 2015, 01:18:00 PM
It is always ironic that the ones who claim to be the most tolerant are the most intolerant of differing views.

The First Amendment states Coach Brown has the right to stay stupid and misguided things (which they are IMO).  It also states the Jambar the right to write intolerant pseudo-intellectual drivel.
Title: Re: Backlash over Ron Brown hiring has already started
Post by: Lets_Talk on February 09, 2015, 01:18:25 PM
penguinpower,

The Editor of The Jambar had every right to write this Editorial piece. If you do not like the article, then take it up with the Editor. I'm merely trying to point out that this hiring is already causing controversy, and we are 7 months away from the start of the season, and about 6 months from summer practice.

Ron Brown has a right to believe whatever he wants to believe. What he does not have is a right to use his position as a football coach at YSU to push his version of Christianity, his views on sexual orientation, gender identity, race, age or any of the other areas prohibited in the non-discrimination clause.

I know of MANY coaches at YSU, both past and present that had/have a very strong faith in God. That is not the issue here. The issue is Ron Borwn being so outspoken in his bigoted views, and how that can affect the players on the football team, the student body, fans, alumni, faculty and staff and the entire community.

Also, I did not go searching for this article. I read The Jambar on line from time to time as a way to keep up with what is going on at my Alma Mater. And, if you read the piece, this is about more than just Ron Brown, and his views. This is about systemic problems at YSU that do not appear to be improving at all with Jim Tressel as President. I supported his hiring, and believe he still deserves more time before being deemed fit or unfit for the position. But, his Presidency has not gotten off to a good start, with the inability to finalize a contact with ACE, finalize a contact with Faculty, a decrease in Fall Enrollment, decrease in Winter Enrollment, and questions over the Athletic Dept receiving an INCREASE in funding, while all other departments received funding DECREASES.

The hiring of Brown is just a system of much of what plagues YSU, and this op-ed piece makes that very clear. I do not understand why it is so hard for people to understand that a person with the views of Ron Brown who is as outspoken and brash as he is does not bode well for a PUBLIC UNIVERSITY. Nor does the AD, Tressel or even Pelini not responding to the concerns of people such as myself, those who wrote letters to the editor and others with regards to Ron Brown.

I'm now in a position financially again where I can make small donations to YSU if I choose. As a result of the Ron Brown hiring, and the way concerns have been handled by Tressel, Strollo and Pelini, I will not donate a single cent to YSU or YSU athletics. I'm just a small time donor when I've donated in the past. And, it's easy for those of you that post without using your true identity to bash me. Just consider though that there are other people with the same concerns as myself. Other people who could contribute money to YSU and specifically the Athletic Department. Also remember that the University belongs first and foremost to the current students. I doubt this is the last time this issue will be discussed publicly, and it is to the detriment of the University, the athletic department and the football program to not have any kind of open discussion about Ron Brown with students, faculty, staff, alumni and any person who supports YSU in any way.
Title: Re: Backlash over Ron Brown hiring has already started
Post by: SoupCity on February 09, 2015, 01:45:19 PM
Lets_Talk, do you know the most wonderful thing about this country?  It's that you have a choice in pretty much EVERYTHING you do (as do those who want to b**** about the guy).  Here they are:  Listen to him OR don't listen to him.  Same thing with donating your money.  2 choices: 1. Donate, 2. Don't donate.  It's your choice.

I personally don't give a sh** whether you, he or anyone else has an axe to grind over someone's lifestyle choice, monetary choice, religious choice or any other choice that exists.  If you don't like it or don't agree with it, then don't be a part of it.  It really is THAT simple!!
Title: Re: Backlash over Ron Brown hiring has already started
Post by: penguinpower on February 09, 2015, 02:37:50 PM
penguinpower,

The Editor of The Jambar had every right to write this Editorial piece. If you do not like the article, then take it up with the Editor. I'm merely trying to point out that this hiring is already causing controversy, and we are 7 months away from the start of the season, and about 6 months from summer practice.

Ron Brown has a right to believe whatever he wants to believe. What he does not have is a right to use his position as a football coach at YSU to push his version of Christianity, his views on sexual orientation, gender identity, race, age or any of the other areas prohibited in the non-discrimination clause.

I know of MANY coaches at YSU, both past and present that had/have a very strong faith in God. That is not the issue here. The issue is Ron Borwn being so outspoken in his bigoted views, and how that can affect the players on the football team, the student body, fans, alumni, faculty and staff and the entire community.

Also, I did not go searching for this article. I read The Jambar on line from time to time as a way to keep up with what is going on at my Alma Mater. And, if you read the piece, this is about more than just Ron Brown, and his views. This is about systemic problems at YSU that do not appear to be improving at all with Jim Tressel as President. I supported his hiring, and believe he still deserves more time before being deemed fit or unfit for the position. But, his Presidency has not gotten off to a good start, with the inability to finalize a contact with ACE, finalize a contact with Faculty, a decrease in Fall Enrollment, decrease in Winter Enrollment, and questions over the Athletic Dept receiving an INCREASE in funding, while all other departments received funding DECREASES.

The hiring of Brown is just a system of much of what plagues YSU, and this op-ed piece makes that very clear. I do not understand why it is so hard for people to understand that a person with the views of Ron Brown who is as outspoken and brash as he is does not bode well for a PUBLIC UNIVERSITY. Nor does the AD, Tressel or even Pelini not responding to the concerns of people such as myself, those who wrote letters to the editor and others with regards to Ron Brown.

I'm now in a position financially again where I can make small donations to YSU if I choose. As a result of the Ron Brown hiring, and the way concerns have been handled by Tressel, Strollo and Pelini, I will not donate a single cent to YSU or YSU athletics. I'm just a small time donor when I've donated in the past. And, it's easy for those of you that post without using your true identity to bash me. Just consider though that there are other people with the same concerns as myself. Other people who could contribute money to YSU and specifically the Athletic Department. Also remember that the University belongs first and foremost to the current students. I doubt this is the last time this issue will be discussed publicly, and it is to the detriment of the University, the athletic department and the football program to not have any kind of open discussion about Ron Brown with students, faculty, staff, alumni and any person who supports YSU in any way.

This is so blown out of proportion is what I am saying.  I am a scientist and an Engineer and there is no evidence of global warming caused by humans.  None zero.  There isn't enough data and there are too many sources of variation.  I choose not to listen to uneducated people that try to push this garbage on me.  The have no way to test their hypothesis yet expect me to believe them and if I disagree well..............there is hell to pay for me.  I don't want them pushing their ideology in schools either, but they do.  It is a continuous onslaught of nonsense. Does that mean I want to pollute the environment?  No it does not.  You are way too sensitive over this.  I believe that more than 80% of the population are idiots.  How you handle them will help you go a long way.
Title: Re: Backlash over Ron Brown hiring has already started
Post by: HappyPenguin on February 09, 2015, 02:42:27 PM
Lets_Talk, do you know the most wonderful thing about this country?  It's that you have a choice in pretty much EVERYTHING you do (as do those who want to b**** about the guy).  Here they are:  Listen to him OR don't listen to him.  Same thing with donating your money.  2 choices: 1. Donate, 2. Don't donate.  It's your choice.

I personally don't give a sh** whether you, he or anyone else has an axe to grind over someone's lifestyle choice, monetary choice, religious choice or any other choice that exists.  If you don't like it or don't agree with it, then don't be a part of it.  It really is THAT simple!!

Coach Brown is a representative of the University, like it or not. As such he needs to keep his mouth shut about things not related to football. I can guarantee you everything he says in the media will identify him with YSU.

Unless we want to start running disclaimers for every Jambar editorial, interview, whatever stating that the opinions expressed within do not necessarily reflect YSU  ::)

Easier yet...just coach football. I personally don't care what he says, he has the right to look like a moron if he chooses...we all do  ;D

Nowhere in my idiotic statement s does it say I am employed by YSU, so what he and I say carry far different weight and implications. I, and most of you, take it for what it is. Not everyone will, and thats their problem. But do we really need more articles like this Jambar one? Will one on ESPN be helpful?
Title: Re: Backlash over Ron Brown hiring has already started
Post by: IAA Fan on February 09, 2015, 04:44:46 PM
Yes ...ladadodaday ...for the most part.

The real story here is that YSU is "growing-up" and experiencing growing pains. We never had a coach of such a high stature. Also YSU athletics have really become much more significant in the past few years.

At the same time, for so many years YSU was really a college focusing on business, science and engineering; all people that are traditionally going to realize the need for conservatism. Even Dana, was heavily focused on traditional music (cla$$ical and traditional pop {marching band}) ..as the arts go, a more conservative mindset. However, we now have had to expand our academic offerings (for better or worse) to maintain a large and competitive student body. This required us to expand our liberal arts offerings beyond those needed to maintain accreditation in core curriculum. So this will affect much of what happens (i.e.: student elections and student paper editors). My only thought is to encourage students to vote, then you will not have this mindset ...or maybe it will increase? Secondly, a letter from students and/or the editor is not news ..never has been anywhere (except CNN and the Vindy...lol). The same applies to social media ...which we are. We may report something earlier that others, but it is still not "official" until YSU says that it is. It is my site, I may say something, but it is not newsworthy.

As to Brown: if he is truly a man of faith; he will not be detoured by this. If he is truly a man of compa$$ion (as real men of faith are), he will understand that some may not like what he does and respond appropriately on and off the field. I will also point out that many public institutions are faith-based and/or teach the liberal art of religion. I will also point out that you cannot watch a football game, where a player does not first thank some type of God.

So unless coach Brown fails as a coach (deliberately listed first), calls himself a non-football god, or orders a player to say 10 "Our Fathers" and 10 "Hail Mary's"; this is not really much of a story and welcome coach Brown.

As to conservatism and age Lets_Talk: here is a quote to always remember:  "Not to be a socialist at twenty is proof of want of heart; to be one at thirty is proof of want of head."
Title: Re: Backlash over Ron Brown hiring has already started
Post by: guinpen on February 09, 2015, 07:37:11 PM
For people who thought I was making an issue out of nothing with my posts regarding the hiring of Ron Brown, you might want to think again.

I know many of you who post on this site are on the conservative side, with several being 30 or older. I also know that Youngstown, Ohio is not exactly a bastion of equality and inclusion. Having said that, times are changing. The youth of today, even in an area such as Youngstown/Warren are much more open minded and accepting of people.

First, you are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Second, by your own words the youth of today are much more open minded and accepting of people. So it should not be a big deal for all of us to be open minded and accepting of Ron Brown.


Title: Re: Backlash over Ron Brown hiring has already started
Post by: Lets_Talk on February 10, 2015, 02:43:43 AM
Of the people who have replied, it seems the only person that understands is Happy Penguin.

YSU would be wise to give Ron Brown a very, very, very short leash. He is known to be an excellent recruiter and a good coach. I hope it has been made VERY CLEAR to him and to Bo Pelini that Brown was hired to be a FOOTBALL COACH, not an Evangelist. He can do whatever he wishes on his own time, and provided he does not present himself, or is not presented as Ron Brown, a$$istant football coach at Youngstown State University" when doing public speaking about religion, same sex marriage, discrimination against people based on sexual orientation and gender identity, or other issues of this kind.

1AA Fan, I have no idea what you are talking about by saying Dana School of Music was "conservative", or that YSU was mostly a school teaching fields such as Business, Science and Engineering , and those fields are dominated by people with conservative ideologies? I graduated from YSU College of Business in 1991. I enrolled at YSU in 1986. At the time, many people did not even think the YSU College of Business was accredited, because the school did not have accreditation with AACSB, the highest standard of achievement for a business school. It was not until the late 90's at the earliest that YSU finally received AACSB accreditation. As for Dana School of Music, wow is all I can say to your comments. Just wow. I mean ,it's the arts for crying out loud. You do not find more diversity and a wider range of people from all backgrounds than in the arts, even at YSU. And, this was true when I was in school at YSU from 86-91. Maybe it was not the case in the 70's, but I find that very, very, very hard to believe. Most likely, people just kept things hidden more back then, which is a sad commentary on the way things were during that period of time.

Brown is free to have his beliefs. That is NOT THE ISSUE. Why is this so hard for people to understand? He represents Youngstown State University. And, he has made it clear when at Nebraska that he used his position as football coach to espouse his beliefs, and even try to spread those beliefs to others. He has said in interviews if there was a player on the team who is gay, he would go and try to help that player as they struggle with their sexual orientation. Well, what if the player is not struggling at all with being gay? What if they are fine with being who they are? Why would ther be any need for Brown to go and talk to that player about their sexual orientation?

Same if we are talking about a heterosexual player who is having sex with their girl friend. Brown has admitted he speaks to players he knows are having sex outside of marriage and tells them they are sinning. Who the hell cares? That is HIS PERSONAL BELIEF. Heck, not even all people who are Christian agree with Brown on that issue, nor do all people that are Christian agree with Brown's anit-gay views. He has NO BUSINESS chastising players for having sex with their girlfriend, with the possible exception of him finding out there is abuse taking place in the relationship.  I also do not see an issue with coach's reminding a player, or team as a whole, about the importance of practicing safe sex, taking responsibility for their actions if sexually active, and being man enough to help raise a child if they father a child? Otherwise, unless a player goes to a coach with a question or questions about what to do in regards to situations that arise in regards to dating, then there is NO REASON for a coach to be preaching to a kid about this topic. Same with drinking alcohol, provided the kid is 21 and not violating any school or team rules on the use of alcohol. Especially when it is not football season.

When it comes to players that are Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, Atheist, or even of Christian denominations that Brown mat consider to not actually be Christian, It is NOT his job as a football coach to try and "save" these players or ANYONE by getting them to accept the type of Christianity he practices. It honestly would not surprise me if Ron Brown consider's people who are Catholic to not be "saved". I have friends, well, former friends, that believe this to be true. Most of these are former Catholic's, who fell away, or had some kind of moment they deem as a "coming to Jesus moment", and then feel a need to save all of their family and friends who are still Catholic. Something tells me there are alot more Catholics in Youngstown/Warren than in Lincoln, NE

If Ron Brown wants to coach football AND use his position as a coach to evangelize and try to "save" people, then he ought to coach at a Christian College or at a Christian High School.

And, let me ask this question. What if Ron Brown was a devout Muslim instead of a devout Christian? And, what if he used his position as football coach to try and convert people to Islam? To spread the teachings of The Prophet Muhammad? How would that play in Youngstown and NE Ohio? My guess is not well at all, and my guess is it would not play well with people saying this issue is being blown out of proportion.

Ron Brown while at Nebraska, went to a meeting on an ANTI-DISCRIMINATION ordinance and spoke in opposition. When doing so, he gave his address as the football stadium at The University of Nebraska. That can easily be inferred that he was representing the University, or at the very least the football program with his views.

As a person who is both transgender and a lesbian, it saddens me that people such as Browen believe I am in some way helping cause the destruction of the United States. He would also lead people to believe that my marriage is in some way less valuable and less of a marriage than that of a heterosexual couple. My wife is an outstanding Elementary School teacher. She wears her wedding band. The Principal and a few teaches know we are married. Students in her cla$$ know she is married. However, she does NOT do anything that other teachers who are married do not do when at work. She will just mention her wife instead of her husband if having a discussion with another person, and mentioning me is pertinent to the conversation. A person such as Ron Brown would wish that we could not even be married, let alone her be able to talk about me openly in the same way people who are "straight" talk about their spouses and/or people they are dating. And, the same applies for me when speaking about my wife.

Ron Brown espouses bigotry, discrimination and intolerance, and does so while using his platform as an employee at a PUBLIC UNIVERSITY!! That is the problem I have with Ron Brown, not his beliefs. Again, he can believe whatever he wishes to believe. But he is NOT going to be working at YSU as an evangelist, youth pastor or anything of that nature. He is going to, or is, employed as a FOOTBALL COACH.

Coach Slocum has a very strong faith in God. So does Jim Tressel, Ron Stoops Jr and likely several others. Both Coach "D" and Dan Peters had/have a strong faith in God. I used to see them at Ma$$ on occasion at St. Columba Cathedral. I would also see them on occasion at Ma$$ in Kilcawley on days such as Ash Wednesday. None of these people made the kinds of comments publicly that Ron Brown makes, and fror which Brown sees no reason to apologize. They may well have used their faith in God to help shape the way they coached and dealt with people, but that did not mean making comments that can be deemed bigoted and/or discriminatory, or even creating an environment in which this would be allowed or tolerated.So, does this mean that Ron Brown is a "better man of faith" than the coaches I mentioned?

Jim Tressel did an interview in 2010 with Out Sports,  a magazine that bills itself as “a lifestyle and advocacy publication” for the local gay community is enough. Here was Tressel's answer about gay athlete's and sports and when asked how he would deal with a player who was openly gay:

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=dw-tressel030810
..."Why are there so few openly gay athletes, the magazine asked Tressel.

...“What we have, quite often, with our athletes, and with a number of young people in any sport, is that from the time they were 6 or 7 years old, their identity has been through sports,” Tressel wrote back. “You’re the tallest, you’re the fastest, you’re the best player. All their feedback has come in terms of their role as a player, and they are often hesitant to go beyond that narrow role.

“An opportunity and a real challenge we have when they get to college is to get them to see themselves with a broader lens. … We want our guys to define themselves in terms of who they are and not simply ‘what they do’ with a certain block of their time. …

“The greatest achievement we can have as coaches is that a young man leaves us with a concept of who he is, what he wants from life, and what he can share with others – someone who is ‘comfortable in his own skin,’ and that identity can go in a number of directions.”

What would the reaction be to an openly gay Buckeye player, he was asked.

“One, we are a family. If you haven’t learned from your family at home that people have differences and those strengthen the whole, then you are hopefully going to learn it as part of the Ohio State football family,” Tressel wrote.

“Two, every part of our team is important and every role has value – no job is too small and no person is irrelevant – that’s a great lesson that transcends into society. When I think of the diversity we’ve had on our team the past few years, it goes way beyond just a racial, sexual or ethnic mix. We’ve had players who had different religions, players who came from different economic backgrounds, players who are parents, who are spouses, who are caring for ailing parents, who are wheelchair bound, who are battling cancer, and on and on.

“Whatever a young man feels called to express, I hope we will help him do it in a supportive environment. Everybody is important, and maturity is learning to find and appreciate those differences in others.”"...

Now, compare this to Ron Brown, who believes that HIS version of Christianity is the ONE AND ONLY WAY. Who believes that people who are gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgender are abominations, and who need to be "cured" of their affliction. Trying to "cure" a person who is LGBT does NOT make said person comfortable in their own skin. Trust me, I know that from life experience. Yet, Ron Brown makes no bones about the fact he would try to cure or fix a player who is gay.
Title: Re: Backlash over Ron Brown hiring has already started
Post by: guinpen on February 10, 2015, 06:24:54 PM
Couple of final points by me on this topic,

There is something to be said for brevity.

How about we treat the players as adults and trust that they are mature enough to deal with him, and what he may or may not say, as they should.
Title: Re: Backlash over Ron Brown hiring has already started
Post by: IAA Fan on February 10, 2015, 10:10:23 PM
Lets_Talk, in the time period that you were talking about (looks like I am 3or4-years your senior) YSU was even more conservative then at almost any post-1950 era. Come on, the school was commuter-based, with far more land dedicated to parking than all sports and academic facilities combined. Lot's of family men trying to get a raise at work or hoping to get out. Lot's of post war era people getting the GI bill.  Just what % of these people are socially liberal? How about .0000000001% (which is probably an over-estimate). (no matter what Cimino, Kubrick, or Coppola would have you believe ...most military men are quite conservative).

As to Dana, the school was quite different back then. Students dreamed of performing in the Cleveland Orchestra ...not at the Cleveland tryouts for "American Idol" or "Voice". I remember when the president agreed to initially fund the alternative school they nicknamed "FAME", just to keep that kind out of Dana.  I had a second major in Speech, Communications & Theater (damn you WKRP) and also played horn in YSU Jazz-III; so I roamed the halls of Dana most-every day. I am well-aware of "the arts", but believe me; Dana was such a completely different animal back then.

Today, we (YSU) have built over those parking lots (unfortunately maybe too many of them), we have become far more of a destination campus which attracts a much more diverse student population. Title-IX has reshaped our student population more than anyone will ever know. It is just a whole new world. That world holds good and bad ....far more bad than I am used to from the late 70's through the 80's. When I was once one, it used to be that naivety & artlessness caused fear in a young man ...now it is artfulness and sophistication. That is why we like our football to be smash-mouth :)
Title: Re: Backlash over Ron Brown hiring has already started
Post by: go guins on February 11, 2015, 11:51:56 AM
 This whole thing has me at a loss.  Ron Brown should be on a short leash because??  I understand he is outspoken, but let's be honest, Muslims certainly wear their religious beliefs "on their sleeve."  Literally, you can see it from a 1/2 mile away.  And isn't free speech part of what we believe and teach at YSU? 
If we are going to be "all inclusive" and everybody's opinion is valuable and in fact needed.  How do we justify our bias against bigots?  If Muslims are welcome, gays welcome, transgenders welcome why aren't fundamentalist Christians and bigots welcome? 
Title: Re: Backlash over Ron Brown hiring has already started
Post by: go guins on February 11, 2015, 12:50:30 PM
Let's_Talk
“Whatever a young man feels called to express, I hope we will help him do it in a supportive environment. Everybody is important, and maturity is learning to find and appreciate those differences in others.”"...

What about homophobes?  Don't we want to welcome them?  Appreciate their contributions?  Welcome their input?  If we want to be “all-inclusive” for only those who agree with us isn’t exactly being inclusive, now is it?
Title: Re: Backlash over Ron Brown hiring has already started
Post by: Observer on February 11, 2015, 11:50:33 PM
This whole thing has me at a loss.  Ron Brown should be on a short leash because??  I understand he is outspoken, but let's be honest, Muslims certainly wear their religious beliefs "on their sleeve."  Literally, you can see it from a 1/2 mile away.  And isn't free speech part of what we believe and teach at YSU? 
If we are going to be "all inclusive" and everybody's opinion is valuable and in fact needed.  How do we justify our bias against bigots?  If Muslims are welcome, gays welcome, transgenders welcome why aren't fundamentalist Christians and bigots welcome?


That's an easy question.  No.  No they're not welcome.  Bigots and Fundamentalist Christians are never happy just saying what they believe, They believe they have some pre-ordained, manifest destiny to manipulate and tell people how to live, even change laws if necessary.   Why is this bad?  Because a majority of society thinks it is.   A person is completely free to go against society, but society is also free to cast a person out.

Its like driving the wrong way on the expressway and yelling at everyone else that they're breaking the law.  Its called being a jacka$$.  Just because you're on the expressway doesn't mean you have to drive the same car, listen to the same music, or go to the same place as other people.  But it does mean to keep your car in your lane in an orderly fashion so everybody gets where they're going. 

As for Brown, I hope he does well at YSU, but all should know that if he says something opinionated or bigoted he will be skewered for it, and he will have earned every burn mark.  If YSU is prepared to protect his freedom of speech they should be prepared for the long greased up lens of ESPN, and lawyers.  Fact.
Title: Re: Backlash over Ron Brown hiring has already started
Post by: Lets_Talk on February 12, 2015, 02:05:12 AM
For those interested, here is the first of the 3 letters to the Editor that appeared in The Jambar print edition, and online with drivegoogle.com I am not sure how the privacy setting work with drivegoogle.com. so that is why I did not share the link directly from my google browser. This letter was written by Bruce Walker, Chair of Philosophy and Religious Studies. It is accessible on-line by going to the Jambar page on Facebook, as that is where I found the original link.


"YSU recently hired a new head football coach, Bo Pelini, whose first act was to profoundly embarra$$ the university and all those a$$ociated with it by indulging in a profanity-filled rant against people at the University of Nebraska. In the course of his vicious attacks he sought out the most demeaning language he could imagine, employing gutter language comparing them to the genitalia of women (“Big Red Today,” Dec. 19, 2014). No one who uses such sexist language — language clearly expressing an overt attitude of disgust toward women — should be employed by YSU, and certainly should never be in a position to foster that attitude in the young men in our athletic programs.

We have now hired a new a$$istant coach, Ron Brown, who says he is eager to join Pelini because Pelini promotes Christian values. Profane attacks on former colleagues, laced with gross insults to women, do not strike most of us as belonging to the same category as the Christian virtues of kindness, forgiveness and love; but Ron Brown seems to have his own version of Christianity. If you go on YouTube, and are willing to suffer through it, you can find Ron Brown’s “sermon” on why Christian men (not women, apparently) should strive for domination. Perhaps I missed a verse, but when I read the Sermon on the Mount, I find Jesus saying blessed are the meek, blessed are the merciful, blessed are the peacemakers; but nowhere do I find Jesus extolling the “virtue” of domination. Ron Brown’s version of Christian fundamentalism insists that “Any other faith outside of Christianity is dead wrong” (“Rapid City Journal,”April 17, 2014) and that those who believe in evolution and do not condemn homosexuality are guilty of wrongs comparable to Jerry Sandusky’s sexual abuse of children (Tammy McKeighan, “Fremont Tribune” Nov. 18, 2011). Ron Brown also believes that homosexuality is a terrible sin, and that homosexual activity is the equivalent of lying, cheating and stealing (“Topeka Capital JournalOnline,” Feb. 14, 2014). Of course he insists that he would still welcome any homosexual athlete onto his football team — but would strive to “convert” him from his sinful ways: “You put your arms around that person struggling with homosexuality and you help walk with him or her to the truth of Jesus Christ, just as you would any other player involved in any other sin” (Cyd Zeigler, “Huffington Post,” Aug. 6, 2012). And this would apply not only to football players. In a Fellowship of Christian Athletes Column (November 2007) Brown condemned homosexuality among women athletes: “There’s nothing heroic about endorsing sin or simply watching it take root without action and exposing it so that there can be confession, repentance and rebirth.” YSU claims that “the university is committed to a campus environment that values all individuals and groups.” But perhaps that commitment is not supposed to cover the athletic department? Ron Brown is and should be free to preach and promote his vile version of fundamentalism, but YSU cannot hire a coach who champions discrimination against gays and lesbians while we also claim to provide a safe and welcoming environment for all our students.

When you pay your annual tuition to YSU, you are paying approximately $1,000 into the athletic department. Are you getting your money’s worth? If you are a religious bigot, a misogynist and a homophobe, perhaps you will regard it as money well spent. If you are instead someone who believes that YSU should live up to its avowed principles of creating a welcoming environment for all people whatever their religious views, gender or sexual orientation, then probably not. If YSU insists on hiring people who are intolerant of religious views other than their own narrow fundamentalist beliefs, whose angry outbursts include gutter language demeaning to women, and who regard homosexuals as sinners in the same cla$$ as thieves and liars and cheats, then we should at least give up the rank hypocrisy of claiming that at YSU we “strive to foster an appreciation of, and respect for, differences among the human race; and celebrate the diversity that enriches the University and the world."

Bruce Walker
Philosophy and Religious Studies
Title: Re: Backlash over Ron Brown hiring has already started
Post by: Lets_Talk on February 12, 2015, 02:15:27 AM
January 29 letters to the editor in The Jambar. Again, these letters were in the print edition. They can be accessed by going to The Jambar page on Facebook, and then using drivegoogle.com to read the entire print edition:

"I love YSU football. I love cheering for a team that represents Youngstown, my hometown, the place that I love more than any other. I take pride in the fact that we play in the toughest FCS conference there is. I have followed YSU football through victories and losses, through rain and shine, through white-out conditions that make it impossible to do more than cheer when the faint silhouettes move roughly in the right direction somewhere out there in the blizzard. I have been there at games where we packed the stadium and at games where I could count the student section on one hand.

When we hired Pelini, I was excited. He was a Youngstown guy, coming home to make things right at YSU. With him, we would be able to make playoffs, win big games and put Youngstown on the map again. Like everyone else, I listened to the tape of him speaking to his team, and it made me uncomfortable, but I rationalized it away. It was just locker room talk. He wasn’t insulting women, he was just using words. Everything was fine; football is allowed to be a little rough around the edges. That’s what I told myself, anyway.

Then I heard about us hiring some new guy, a guy from Nebraska with some odd views. I’d never heard of him before, so I went and looked him up. As I read through the first few results I found on Google, I felt my heart sinking. This Ron Brown guy wasn’t just a little rough around the edges; he wasn’t just using a few off-color words — he was directly, deliberately attacking an entire group of people. He was using his position of football glory to tell kids that they would burn in hell for the way they were born. He compared consensual acts between adults to the molestation of children. He actively evangelized for a brand of Christianity that represents the absolute worst that religion has to offer.

If these were simply views he held in private, or offered up only when asked, I would be uncomfortable, but I would strive to be tolerant. Not toward the ideas, which are hateful, but toward the person who holds them. That’s not what Ron Brown does though. He has made it very clear that he sees evangelizing as a core part of his purpose for being involved in football at all. His actions have made these ideas a matter of public concern. He does not simply wish to hold his views and discuss them among his family and friends — he wants to push his ideology of hate on the rest of the world by any means at his disposal.

Ron Brown’s a$$ociation with YSU is an embarra$$ment to the school, the city and the fans of the team. The pride I have felt for a team that represents our history, our toughness and our ability to hang on through tough times cannot coexist with the disgust I feel towards this individual and his ideology of hate. As painful as it is to admit, I cannot call myself a fan until Ron Brown is removed from his a$$ociation with the team."
Tom Goldthwait
YSU Student



"As executive leaders of Youngstown State University’s Student Government a$$ociation, we observe the hiring of a$$istant football coach Ron Brown with certain trepidations.

It is undoubtedly true that under the First Amendment individuals are free to hold their own views and beliefs, and we wholly respect the rights of Coach Brown in such regards. However, we likewise stand firmly behind the importance of the implications generated by the Establishment Clause — that the separation of church and state must not be jeopardized, and that while acting in an official capacity as a representative of Youngstown State, Coach Brown must carefully tailor his words and actions so as to avoid blending his official du-ties as a public employee with a desire to proselytize and promulgate his religious convictions.

Both YSU and Coach Brown must be diligent in a$$uring that this University remain a welcoming place for all students, regardless of their religious beliefs and sexual orientation, and avoid situations in which those fundamental provisions, espoused in both Youngstown State’s mission statement and the Constitution of the United States, are under-mined."

Michael Slavens
Jacob Schriner-Briggs
Title: Re: Backlash over Ron Brown hiring has already started
Post by: Lets_Talk on February 12, 2015, 03:09:54 AM
It seems to me we have several people who post on this board that likely share the bigoted views of Ron Brown, or have other bigoted views of their own. And, given the laws that govern The United States of America, you are free to have whatever views and beliefs you wish.

The difference between those of us who post on this site, and Ron Brown is that we do NOT work for, or in anyway represent Youngstown State University with our comments on this site. Some of you may well work at YSU, but because this board does not require people to provide their actual name when posting, identities remain anonymous. There are exceptions, such as myself who has their name at the bottom of every post, or others like Ed Puskas and Sean Bryan, who when posting using their real names as their user name.

And, again, Ron Brown is free to have any beliefs he wishes to have, that is NOT THE ISSUE. The issue is his admittedly using his position as football coach at Nebraska as a platform from which to share his beliefs, some of which violate anti-discrimination laws, and laws under which he agreed to work.

Now, all of this took place at Nebraska, so in no way is it the job of Ron Strollo, Jim Tressel or anyone else at YSU to sanction Brown for actions prior to his employment at YSU. But, going forward, it will be up to Ron Strollo, Jim Tressel and others within the administration to make sure Ron Brown is not able to do some of the very things he did while at Nebraska. And, when, not if, Brown uses his position at YSU in a way that violates anti-discrimination laws and/or the Establishment Clause, allowing this to happen without penalty will reflect poorly upon Youngstown State University. The reason I said WHEN Brown acts in this manner is because he has ben quoted as saying it would be an honor to be fired for his beliefs. In some ways, Ron Brown can be viewed as a person who WANTS to be a martyr. A person who is going to say and do whatever he pleases, even if it violates The Establishment Clause, anti-discrimination laws, or the wishes of his superiors. That is what he did at Nebraska for 20+ years, so no reason to believe it will be any different at YSU.

And, when that does happen, there will be a backlash. A backlash from students, faculty, staff, alums and maybe even those in the general public. The backlash will lead to media coverage in local media, and quite possibly nationally. The possibility of national media coverage is made more likely given Browns reputation nationally, as well as, Bo Pelini being a high profile Head Coach, and Jim Tressel being a high profile President.

As of now, Brown has done NOTHING to warrant being fired. I do think his past words and actions are enough cause for concern for him to have not been hired by YSU, but the powers that be have chosen otherwise. As I've said before, I know back when Dan Peter's was Head men's basketball coach, he wanted to hire his friend, Keith Dambrot as an a$$istant coach. Dambrot had been embroiled in controversy while HC at CMU, when he used the word nigger while addressing his players. He did this while first asking permission to use that word, and no players spoke out against Dambrot when he eventually was fired or forced to resign. While no players spoke out against him publicly, it was similar to the case invovling Bo Pelinin where private conversations with the team were recorded, and then released. In the case of Dambrodt, I do not recall there being any recording made, but what took place in that CLOSED DOOR meeting with his players and staff eventually became public knowledge, and not long after, Dambrot was out of a job.

Peter's wanted to hire Dambrot because he knew the guy. Dambrot was and stil is an excellent coach, as he has proven when he coached Akron SVSM for Lebrons 9th and 10th grade seasons, and with the success he has had in his current position as Head Coach at Akron. Keith was also known to be an excellent recruiter, and it is no secret to anyone with the slightest bit of knowledge of the Dan Peter's era, that he was not found of the recruiting process. In fact, that is likely one reason he failed to have more success at YSU. He relied heavily upon the a$$istant coach's to recruit. He most likely put too much trust in their player evaluations, and that led to some players that were likely not capable of playing at YSU being offered scholarships. The ultimate responsibility for this lies with Dan.

Dambrot was not hired, largely because Jim Tressel, who was AD at the time saw it as being too controversial of a hire. In essence, what according to players, coaches and Dambrot himself was a poor decision that then got blown out of proportion, resulted in his not being hired by YSU. Not only that, he was blackballed entirely from coaching. That is, until he was given an opportunity by Akron SVSM, and then finally by Akron. Dambrot made ONE mistake, and given the accounts of what happened as I've heard them, I'm not even sure it was a mistake. I say that because of the fact he asked permission from the team to use the word nigger. Having said that, just as no players at Nebraska would come out and speaking negatively of Brown, it is not far fetched that one or more players on the CMU team may not have been comfortable with Dambrot using the word nigger, but refrained from saying so out of fear. And, to his credit, Dambrot to this day will say he made a poor decision. That he messed up, and that it is something he wishes he could undo. Now, compare that with Ron Brown, who has no remorse at all for any of the people he has hurt.

1AA Fan can move this to the BS forum and act as if it has nothing to do with YSU or YSU Athletics. Others can also remain in denial. But, trust me, there are groups closely watching Ron Brown. Groups that will not hesitate to contact YSU and do whatever is necessary to have Brown terminated, IF he crosses the line. The hope is that this will not happen. And, as long as Brown does not abuse his position at YSU, then eventually this discussion will go away on it's own.

Personally, I think a great way to handle this would be to have a press conference to introduce ALL of the new a$$istant coach's. And, allow ANY member of the media who wants to attend to attend. Not a limited media press conference, like what took place when Bo Pelini was announced as Head Coach. Introduce the coach's. Allow them to speak on their own behalf. Allow them to be asked questions. Just because they are asked questions, they are not obligated to give detailed answers, or say things that will lead to trouble for them or the University. When asked about incidents while coaching at Nebraska, Ron Brown could give a pat answer along the lines of "what happened there is in the past. I'm now coaching at Youngstown State, I'm excited for this opportunity, and look forward to helping build a successful football program, and also help the players and the community in any way possible." He could also pull a Marshawn Lynch, and just answer that he is there because he was told to be there.

The only reason for Brown to go on about his Christian beliefs, and state espousing things that have NOTHING to do with football is if he makes that choice. Even then, simply stating he has a strong faith in Christ would be fine with me. Problems would begin to arise IF he were to state he intended to use his position as football coach to push his beliefs onto players, other coach's and the University as a whole, or he started making comments that violate the anti-discrimination laws and policies of YSU and the Public Education System in Ohio.
Title: Re: Backlash over Ron Brown hiring has already started
Post by: paladin on February 12, 2015, 01:51:00 PM
Had surgery Monday and now out.  I indicated early on that the Pelini hiring would end up being a comedy. Brown is just one of many reasons why. While the conservatives may like, it will attract the ACLU. Brown is an extremist and Pelini knows it. Fair warning..........lots of problems dead ahead. Pelini judgement will be questioned. Football is soon to have a sideshow that stands to hurt YSU.  Oh well......
Title: Re: Backlash over Ron Brown hiring has already started
Post by: go guins on February 12, 2015, 02:37:32 PM

Lets_Talk
“strive to foster an appreciation of, and respect for, differences among the human race; and celebrate the diversity that enriches the University and the world."
Doesn't that include homophobes and bigots too? 
Are you in favor of allowing a student organization to set up an Easter scene on campus?  If not, how is that different that the ongoing religious symbolism of Muslims walking around campus daily in clearly religious identifies clothing? 
Title: Re: Backlash over Ron Brown hiring has already started
Post by: IAA Fan on February 12, 2015, 02:42:58 PM
"oh well..." is absolutely the right thing to say. Nothing that has happened so far (outside of Pelini's uneducated rant being conveniently-released days after it happened and the day he accepted the YSU job) is anything less than great for the university & I mean great. If the guy is sent packing in 2 or 3 years, we would be far better off than having him not be here.

Any time you hire a major figure, there is controversy ...aka hiring coach Tressel as president.

There are 4 Sears trophies on the campus of YSU ...all from the sport of football and all occurred during the era of TV. Yet, most people we play against have no idea. Most people in the media do not care (outside of the locals). Most sports fans have no idea. Yet the vast majority of sports fans and media know who Tressel is and that he works here. Most now know who Pelini is and that he works here as well.  How great is that!? Nobody ever heard of Brown (outside of the hard core fans and misguided  in Nebraska) and no one is going to have heard of him here ...outside of the misguided and hard-core fans.

Also, any team effort requires unity. Generally speaking: religion (as a system of beliefs) is a tremendous unification tool. This why 7k people kneel simultaneously at my ma$$ on Sunday. It is when you misuse religion that it becomes a divider. Until the point where this may happen, this is a non-issue. This is why I moved it to the General board. Because people are going to turn it into something that is today cla$$ified as "political".
Title: Re: Backlash over Ron Brown hiring has already started
Post by: Lets_Talk on February 12, 2015, 03:54:55 PM
I GIVE UP!!!!!!!!!!! ..... Some of you are incredible. Truly incredible. And, reading comments on this topic make me realize more than ever why I moved far, far, far from Youngstown/Warren, and for that matter Ohio.

People are supporting bigotry and discrimination as part of diversity....UNBELIEVABLE!!!!

And, while faith can untie people, it is also the cause of just about every war going on in the world today, and the cause of much of the hatred we have in the world today. Also, whose faith? A guy like Ron Brown has made it clear that HIS faith is the ONLY faith. ANY PERSON who is of that ilk, and uses their position as a coach at a PUBLIC INSTITUTION is not interested in uniting people. Ron Brown is a radical fundamentalist. And, radical fundamentalism of ANY kind is not at all positive.

Seriously, I am done with people defending a person who is a flat our bigot, and who DEFENDS and promotes discrimination. Then again, we are talking about Youngstown, Ohio, so I'm not sure why this at all surprise me.

All I ca say is WOW...WOW...WOW!!!!

You know what, go ahead and enjoy having an unabashed bigot representing YSU football, and YSU as a University. Also, on a National Level, there is not the buzz surrounding the hiring of Pelini that many of you would wish to believe. No buzz here in Las Vegas or anywhere out west. If there is any buzz in this part of the country involving FCS football, it is about the QB from Eastern Washington transferring to Oregon. Also, go on ESPN.com, CBSsportsline or any national sports site that does not specifically cover FCS football, or have a specific section for FCS football like The Sports Network. NO buzz about YSU or Bo Pelini, despite what Ron Jaworski had to say. That dude spews BS for a living. He was speaking to Alumni in an effort to get them to donate money to YSU.

I'm proud to be a graduate of YSU, but I cannot say I'm proud to be from Youngstown, OH, and if I never again set foot in the Ytown/Warren area or the entire state of Ohio it will not bother me in the least. The only reason I have for even considering going back there is to visit family, and I'd prefer they come out here.

1AA fan, I have a suggestion. Doubt you will like it, but here it goes. Get rid of the anonymous user names, and have people post using their real names. That would stop alot of the BS that occurs on this site. Of course, may well lead to few people posting, so that would not be good for your site. It's amazing how brash people are, and the things they are willing to say when hiding behind the cloak of anonymity. User names are akin to the KKK and their wearing of hoods to hide the identity of Klan members.

At the very least, require people to have their name at the bottom of every post in the spot reserved for SIGNATURE.

go guins, I have NO PROBLEM with a student organization setting up an Easter scene on campus. I have no problem with any Christian symbols being displayed at Christmas time, whether on campus or in front of a courthouse. What I do have a problem with is allowing ONLY Christian symbols and displays. As far as how SOME people who are Muslim choose to dress, why does this bother you so much? I have a dear friend who is Muslim. Well, she is more than a friend, as we deem ourselves to be "sisters from different mothers". Not a single time has Afifah EVER tried to convert me to Islam. That is more than I can say for alot of people I know who are Christian, including when I was attending Ma$$ every week, plus Holy Days.

And, I went through a period back in the 90's in my mid 20's where I went to Evangelical and Baptist Church's. I did the altar calls. I did the being "saved" thing in an attempt to pray away my gender identity. "Pray the gay away", only in my case it was pray away that I am female buy was born with male genitals. With medicines I take, and procedures I've had, I'm now legally female and I'm married to a female, so I'm also gay. Well, I'm a lesbian. So, the altar calls and all those years of praying, self hatred, shame, guilt did nothing but make the mental health problems I had even worse, and poor mental health is something I deal with to this very day, based in large part to all the sh** I endured for 30+ years of my life, and that I still am subject to at times be people of the ilk of Ron Brown and in situations when it is legal to discriminate against myself and my wife. Fortunately, here in Nevada, there are STATE WIDE anti-discrimination laws in regards to sexual orientation and gender identity. And, guess what. Those laws protect people who are HETEROSEXUAL or not transgender from being discriminated against.

My foray int othe Evangelicl world did not cure me, and as I look back on those 1-2 years, I became a complete ******** to every person who was not "saved". It is my first hand experience with organized religion, and all the mistreatment I received in the "name of love" that led me to no longer want anything to do with organized religion. And, all of this was done in an attempt to cure myself of being ME. Essentially, doing the very thing Ron Brown would have ANY person he knows is gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgender to do, along with any person HE does not deem to be "saved". Some of you may want to be careful, because you may well be headed for hell in the eyes of Ron Brown.

He has the ONE AND ONLY TRUE WAY, and I can tell you his way is NOT Roman Catholicism, nor is it likely Episcopalian, Methodist or any of the mainline Protestant denominations. Especially not denominations that are accepting of those of us who are LGBT and of people who are Muslim, Jewish and other faiths, plus people of no religious faith at all. Oh the irony that if Ron Brown is indeed right, then many of you will be right along side of me in hell. And, if Ron Brown is right, I have no interest in spending eternity with people of his ilk, nor being involved with a god that is so obsessed with what 2 consenting adults do when it comes to sex, or who they decide to love. It is not out o the realm of possiblities that Ron Brown is a person who is in denial, or "in the closet" with regards to his own sexuality. Often, the people who are the most outspoken and hateful toward people who fall into the "LGBT" category are people who have been led to believe they are abhorrent, deviant, evil people, and the views they espouse are an attempt to cure themselves. Take some time to think about just how sad it is when that happens. People are taught to hate themselves, and then they turn around and project that hatred onto others. I've been there myself back in my 20's, as have countless other people.

1AA fan, as far as I'm concerned, you can delete my account, and any user name you have on file that I may have used in the past. Delete ALL of them, because I'm done with this board. I may well read from time to time, but after today, I have no intentions of posting. I'm sure many of your fellow posters will be happy to read this. Consider it an early Vernal Equinox gift.
Title: Re: Backlash over Ron Brown hiring has already started
Post by: go guins on February 13, 2015, 10:34:16 AM
Lets_Talk,
Sorry, I apparently misunderstood the term "inclusive" to mean all were included, but unfortunately I was completely wrong.  Apparetly it includes only those who agree with you!  Now that I understand your status as Supreme Being, I personally glad you are far far away from here! 
Welcome Ron Brown, hope you can coach!
Title: Re: Backlash over Ron Brown hiring has already started
Post by: IAA Fan on February 13, 2015, 10:36:47 AM
Lets_talk: Just because you do not agree with this, does not mean you cannot participate in the sport-related board. This is why I moved it. You are being unreasonable as you call everyone else. Do we not all cheer when YSU wins? The do so on the YSU Athletics board with less volatile topics.

Also religion is almost never the cause of war. It is certainly the reason used to justify almost every war in history. My religion does not condone any type of war at any time. What does this have to do with anything? If you asked me, I would tell you that my faith is the THE only true faith and Brown has to be incorrect in his a$$umption. So would I not be wrong as well? You are making a mountain out of a mole-hill and obviously quite intolerant. So get off this topic & back on YSU sports. Heck now you are actually letting Paladin get to you on your own topic. The most that can come of this is:
1. Nothing. Or,
2. The ability for you to say "I told you so".

We enjoy your contributions. My only concern is that I am not sure Brown is qualified to coach and I hope he is. I am also concerned with Stoops ability to run the entire defense. These are the only coaching questions eating at me right now.
Title: Re: Backlash over Ron Brown hiring has already started
Post by: Po Baloney on April 08, 2015, 07:48:52 PM
This whole thing has me at a loss.  Ron Brown should be on a short leash because??  I understand he is outspoken, but let's be honest, Muslims certainly wear their religious beliefs "on their sleeve."  Literally, you can see it from a 1/2 mile away.  And isn't free speech part of what we believe and teach at YSU? 
If we are going to be "all inclusive" and everybody's opinion is valuable and in fact needed.  How do we justify our bias against bigots?  If Muslims are welcome, gays welcome, transgenders welcome why aren't fundamentalist Christians and bigots welcome?


That's an easy question.  No.  No they're not welcome.  Bigots and Fundamentalist Christians are never happy just saying what they believe, They believe they have some pre-ordained, manifest destiny to manipulate and tell people how to live, even change laws if necessary.   Why is this bad?  Because a majority of society thinks it is.   A person is completely free to go against society, but society is also free to cast a person out.

Its like driving the wrong way on the expressway and yelling at everyone else that they're breaking the law.  Its called being a jacka$$.  Just because you're on the expressway doesn't mean you have to drive the same car, listen to the same music, or go to the same place as other people.  But it does mean to keep your car in your lane in an orderly fashion so everybody gets where they're going. 

As for Brown, I hope he does well at YSU, but all should know that if he says something opinionated or bigoted he will be skewered for it, and he will have earned every burn mark.  If YSU is prepared to protect his freedom of speech they should be prepared for the long greased up lens of ESPN, and lawyers.  Fact.

Ron Brown is definitely polarizing and stubborn, even to his detriment. He is an impressive speaker who genuinely cares about the kids he coaches. Despite this, he has had so few professional opportunities in coaching that he had to follow Bo, who occasionally spits in his face and is a poor coach. What he has over Bo - despite his arguably bigoted, archaic religious beliefs - is sincerity. Bo cares only about Bo. Sadly, this will become apparent in ways that are sure to be damaging.

Ron is real, love him or hate him. Bo is a phony, malicious chameleon who will suck the life and morale out of everything he touches.
Title: Re: Backlash over Ron Brown hiring has already started
Post by: Po Baloney on April 08, 2015, 08:30:16 PM
"oh well..." is absolutely the right thing to say. Nothing that has happened so far (outside of Pelini's uneducated rant being conveniently-released days after it happened and the day he accepted the YSU job) is anything less than great for the university & I mean great. If the guy is sent packing in 2 or 3 years, we would be far better off than having him not be here.

Any time you hire a major figure, there is controversy ...aka hiring coach Tressel as president.

There are 4 Sears trophies on the campus of YSU ...all from the sport of football and all occurred during the era of TV. Yet, most people we play against have no idea. Most people in the media do not care (outside of the locals). Most sports fans have no idea. Yet the vast majority of sports fans and media know who Tressel is and that he works here. Most now know who Pelini is and that he works here as well.  How great is that!? Nobody ever heard of Brown (outside of the hard core fans and misguided  in Nebraska) and no one is going to have heard of him here ...outside of the misguided and hard-core fans.

Also, any team effort requires unity. Generally speaking: religion (as a system of beliefs) is a tremendous unification tool. This why 7k people kneel simultaneously at my ma$$ on Sunday. It is when you misuse religion that it becomes a divider. Until the point where this may happen, this is a non-issue. This is why I moved it to the General board. Because people are going to turn it into something that is today cla$$ified as "political".

I hope for YSU's sake that you are correct. However, there is definitely a downside to Bo. He can do lots of damage in 3 years unless he changes his ways.