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YSU Penguin Athletics => YSU Penguin Athletics => Topic started by: YSUFANSINCE1990 on April 04, 2017, 09:37:32 AM
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I was just told that YSU is cancelling the spring game, scheduled for this Friday because of potential bad weather. There will be no make-up date.
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A wise decision. Nobody is going to sit outside in wet, freezing conditions to watch a practice game in April. And the article in the Vindicator today suggests that we barely have enough healthy players in some positions to play a real game anyway.
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Yep, it's cancelled.
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Too bad they can't move it to Saturday.
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I was hoping they would keep the pregame party and let the coaches and player participate, but they sent out refunds.
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I know room for seating is minimal, perhaps the elevated golfing area only, but you would think someone could come up with a plan to move this into WATTS.
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Since we advanced from the preliminary round to the finals, we played 16 football games last season, the most ever by a IAA/FCS team. Then we started spring practice less than two months after we walked off the field in Texas. Even under ideal conditions, there was no need to play a competitive football game in the spring.
I agree with IAA Fan that it would have been nice to keep the party and have a "meet and greet" with the players and the coaches. Also agree with Happy that the WATTS could have been utilized, perhaps by letting in fans for free and allowing them to watch a no-contact passing scrimmage similar to what high schools do in the summer.
Bottom line is, according to Bo, we got in the necessary work. Risking more injuries in bad conditions would not have been very intelligent.
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Should have done something like what the Buckeye's do - Student Appreciation Day
https://www.landof10.com/ohio-state/photos-buckeyes-students-fans-players-celebrate-ohio-states-2017-student-appreciation-day
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We missed a great marketing opportunity by not doing something. It's another screw up and a slap in the face to the hardcore fan and a missed opportunity to add to the fan base.
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I agree with the thoughts of most of you regarding a missed marketing opportunity.
Bo can coach, and JT's credentials are beyond question, but our sports marketing effort sucks big time. I am still in shock over giving up our allocated tickets for the National Championship Game. The fan trips that should have been organized, the whole community involvement that was lost is, frankly, inexcusable. Whoever made that decision should be looking for a job. Now, to miss a great opportunity to connect with the core fan base AGAIN, by just walking away from the spring game without so much as a “thank you for your support” or anything is just another example of marketing incompetence!
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I agree with the thoughts of most of you regarding a missed marketing opportunity.
Bo can coach, and JT's credentials are beyond question, but our sports marketing effort sucks big time. I am still in shock over giving up our allocated tickets for the National Championship Game. The fan trips that should have been organized, the whole community involvement that was lost is, frankly, inexcusable. Whoever made that decision should be looking for a job. Now, to miss a great opportunity to connect with the core fan base AGAIN, by just walking away from the spring game without so much as a “thank you for your support” or anything is just another example of marketing incompetence!
2 issues that caused this.
1. Not winning enough under Heacock.
2. Old fan base is old and dying off
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I agree with the thoughts of most of you regarding a missed marketing opportunity.
Bo can coach, and JT's credentials are beyond question, but our sports marketing effort sucks big time. I am still in shock over giving up our allocated tickets for the National Championship Game. The fan trips that should have been organized, the whole community involvement that was lost is, frankly, inexcusable. Whoever made that decision should be looking for a job. Now, to miss a great opportunity to connect with the core fan base AGAIN, by just walking away from the spring game without so much as a “thank you for your support” or anything is just another example of marketing incompetence!
Let me get this straight. You are blaming H
2 issues that caused this.
1. Not winning enough under Heacock.
2. Old fan base is old and dying off
Let me get this straight. You are blaming Heacock and old fans for turning down the tickets to Frisco and for not taking advantage of the cancelled spring game for some kind of "fan appreciation day"??
I'm not sure what all the issues are, but Heacock and old fans are NOT the problem! Poor marketing of the sports program is an obvious and serious issue at YSU, but Heacock and old fans are NOT!
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I agree with the thoughts of most of you regarding a missed marketing opportunity.
Bo can coach, and JT's credentials are beyond question, but our sports marketing effort sucks big time. I am still in shock over giving up our allocated tickets for the National Championship Game. The fan trips that should have been organized, the whole community involvement that was lost is, frankly, inexcusable. Whoever made that decision should be looking for a job. Now, to miss a great opportunity to connect with the core fan base AGAIN, by just walking away from the spring game without so much as a “thank you for your support” or anything is just another example of marketing incompetence!
Let me get this straight. You are blaming H
2 issues that caused this.
1. Not winning enough under Heacock.
2. Old fan base is old and dying off
Let me get this straight. You are blaming Heacock and old fans for turning down the tickets to Frisco and for not taking advantage of the cancelled spring game for some kind of "fan appreciation day"??
I'm not sure what all the issues are, but Heacock and old fans are NOT the problem! Poor marketing of the sports program is an obvious and serious issue at YSU, but Heacock and old fans are NOT!
Heacock was a problem.
Fans are older now. I know many that have does off.
New fans are millenials . Can't handle cold weather. Would rather play a video game.
Population has declined.
That is the issue
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The lackluster relationship between the football team and the community now as compared to the Tressel years can be attributed to all three factors mentioned in this discussion.
Sports marketing is very weak. It lacks any vision or the ability to innovate.
Our crowds are old and that demographic shrinks every year. Young people think they are sports fans if they watch a game on their electronic devices. Spending three hours sitting in the stands is just not what most of them do.
Tressel built tight bonds between the community and the football team. By allowing the elite program to deteriorate into mediocrity, Heacock broke those bonds. We are still laboring to restore them, but it is not very easy.
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I agree with the thoughts of most of you regarding a missed marketing opportunity.
Bo can coach, and JT's credentials are beyond question, but our sports marketing effort sucks big time. I am still in shock over giving up our allocated tickets for the National Championship Game. The fan trips that should have been organized, the whole community involvement that was lost is, frankly, inexcusable. Whoever made that decision should be looking for a job. Now, to miss a great opportunity to connect with the core fan base AGAIN, by just walking away from the spring game without so much as a “thank you for your support” or anything is just another example of marketing incompetence!
Let me get this straight. You are blaming H
2 issues that caused this.
1. Not winning enough under Heacock.
2. Old fan base is old and dying off
Let me get this straight. You are blaming Heacock and old fans for turning down the tickets to Frisco and for not taking advantage of the cancelled spring game for some kind of "fan appreciation day"??
I'm not sure what all the issues are, but Heacock and old fans are NOT the problem! Poor marketing of the sports program is an obvious and serious issue at YSU, but Heacock and old fans are NOT!
Heacock was a problem.
Fans are older now. I know many that have does off.
New fans are millenials . Can't handle cold weather. Would rather play a video game.
Population has declined.
That is the issue
HEACOCK??? Seriously???? You complain about old fans, but go to a game sometime. That is what you see, "seasoned" fans. That is NOT becuase Heacock screwed everything up, but because the sports marketing effort has dropped the ball. Everything you say applies to OSU as well as YSU (including some Heacock influence) Do you see the same demise of the fan base there? I'll tell you one thing, I think SOMEBODY, not mentioning your name, is the one that is too old!
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All this talk about Heacock and deteriorating demographics and millennials not willing to go to a game says one thing and one thing only: LOSER!
Go to Fargo ND. Think that is the garden spot of the Midwest? They are WINNERS because they market and get behind the program.
Look at Chaney Washington. The only place with football and worse weather than ND. Boomtown? No, but they take what they have and make something good out of it. EWU attendance is 73% of the total population of Chaney WA! If true for YSU that would be 48,000 per game.
Remember the line from Shawshank Redemption? “Get busy living or get busy dying!” All this “woe is me” talk is sad. Yes we had more people years ago, but we have more people in the valley than MANY 1AA schools and instead of doing something positive in marketing, we cry about what used to be. I feel sorry for you. I am about the oldest guy on this blog and fell younger that the vast majority of you old farts!
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Speaking of which, I always try to market this stuff and promote it to my generation. It is a very hard sell though most times. Last year was an easy sell at the end. Hopefully some of that momentum comes forward.
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go guins,
If you want your opinions to be respected, you probably should not attack posters who disagree with your point of view. It would also be helpful if you checked your facts carefully as you build your arguments. For example, Cheney, Washington is located in Spokane County (population 479,000.) Cheney is no farther away from Spokane city (population 210,000) than Warren, Sharon, or Salem is from Youngstown. EWU does not draw better than YSU by any criteria.
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go guins,
If you want your opinions to be respected, you probably should not attack posters who disagree with your point of view. It would also be helpful if you checked your facts carefully as you build your arguments. For example, Cheney, Washington is located in Spokane County (population 479,000.) Cheney is no farther away from Spokane city (population 210,000) than Warren, Sharon, or Salem is from Youngstown. EWU does not draw better than YSU by any criteria.
Thank you.
My point is that the population has declined. Lost another 6% last year. The fan base of the 1990"s is well into retirement years. The kids at the school don't have the money to go to the games in Texas. When we weren't winning the fan base stopped going. The 2006 playoff games at home were the last hurrah. We've never recovered from that time. That is my point. You get it.
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I don't argue the population is declining. What I am saying is this: If you give up and say "the population isn't what it used to be" and that is the reason for not doing anything, then that meets my definition of a "loser". IF however, you say, “there are 233,000 people in the Mahoning Valley, that is enough to support all the athletic programs at YSU IF I can get them motivated and involved, so how do I do that?” Then you have a chance. We look like and act like losers turning down the Frisco tickets, fumbling the ball on the spring game not promoting MBB, etc. Remember 233K is more than TWICE the population of Green Bay Wisconsin and the support and NFL franchise! I stand by my Shawshank Redemption quote, "get busy living or get busy dying."
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I don't argue the population is declining. What I am saying is this: If you give up and say "the population isn't what it used to be" and that is the reason for not doing anything, then that meets my definition of a "loser". IF however, you say, “there are 233,000 people in the Mahoning Valley, that is enough to support all the athletic programs at YSU IF I can get them motivated and involved, so how do I do that?” Then you have a chance. We look like and act like losers turning down the Frisco tickets, fumbling the ball on the spring game not promoting MBB, etc. Remember 233K is more than TWICE the population of Green Bay Wisconsin and the support and NFL franchise! I stand by my Shawshank Redemption quote, "get busy living or get busy dying."
Go here and look up the demographics for the region.
https://segmentationsolutions.nielsen.com/mybestsegments/
This is used in marketing research. This is what I am talking about. Plug in any zip in the Youngstown area. Look at the data. I am not trying to be a downer, just stating the facts.
For example, in Boardman (which likely has the largest population in Mahoning County outside of Youngstown proper) greater than 70% of the people make less than $50k and only about 50% of those people are less than 44 years of age. The majority is >65 years old. People that can afford to go to games need a salary >$70k to have some level of disposable income and are likely younger than 65. Therefore only I'm saying that optimistically 33% of the entire population of Boardman could afford to go to a game >$75k per year. As of 2010 the population was 35,376. However, 37% of the population is >55 years old. Assuming you could only get 10% of those people to every game........not counting the fact that the region has lost 6% of the population every year. The total number of people in the 20-55 range is 41% of the population. Add in another 10% for the older folks and you have a a total of 5,953 people that could go to the game. Multiple assumptions here such as only 20 year olds and older can earn >$55k and that most of the older folks earn the most money etc. That 5953 is if you got 100% that can afford to go to the game. Lets assume that roughly 60% that can go are not interested in going to a game or have other commitments at any given time......( either don't like football, are like many females that I know who would rather watch on TV or not at all etc (not picking on females just using an example) now you are at 2,141 people that can represent Boardman on a good weekend.
There were 95,740 people living in Youngstown in 1990. In 2014 the population was 65,062. That is a 32.0% decrease. The population in Boardman was 38,956 in 1990 and was at 35,376 as mentioned above. That is a decrease of 9.2% in population.
In 1990 Mahoning County had a population of 265,095. In 2014 the population was 233,204. That is a decrease of only 12%, however, the financial demographics have changed. Median income in the 2010 census was $40,123 with 16% below the poverty line. the 2000 census indicates that the median income was 35,248 but only 12.5% were below the poverty line.
I will stop. It is sobering and horrible.
I am fortunate that I could take all willing family members to the NC game, but after this exercise I better understand why so many people showed support at the Covelli Center. We need need good paying jobs in a bad way.
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I an not disputing any of the facts. I AM saying there is enough disposable income and enough people in the valley to support all the YSU programs IF there is an effort made to develop that support. OBVIOUSLY the most important way to grow support is to win, but look at the effort Coach Calhoun is making already to attract support to the MBB program. Open practice, being public, working to get people out. Do you think attendance will be up at the 1st game this season? It will be the 1st game so the record will be 0-0. Will that grown in attendance be improved demographics, or imporoved marketing of the program?
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Consider this example. In the early years, the Covelli Center failed miserably as the city relied upon national companies for booking and promotion. These businesses did not understand the community and had no interest in the center beyond collecting their (very high) fees. Then the city turned to a local promoter, Eric Ryan, who understood the Mahoning Valley and booked and marketed accordingly. As a result, in recent years, the Covelli Center has turned a profit and emerged as a valuable community asset.
University athletic marketing is abysmal. No sensible or informed person could question that statement. Instead of staying with the failed in-house system, why not outsource ticket sales and promotion to professionals whose compensation would be based upon the results that they achieve. We are our own worst enemy by clinging to policies and personnel that are obviously ineffective.
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Consider this example. In the early years, the Covelli Center failed miserably as the city relied upon national companies for booking and promotion. These businesses did not understand the community and had no interest in the center beyond collecting their (very high) fees. Then the city turned to a local promoter, Eric Ryan, who understood the Mahoning Valley and booked and marketed accordingly. As a result, in recent years, the Covelli Center has turned a profit and emerged as a valuable community asset.
University athletic marketing is abysmal. No sensible or informed person could question that statement. Instead of staying with the failed in-house system, why not outsource ticket sales and promotion to professionals whose compensation would be based upon the results that they achieve. We are our own worst enemy by clinging to policies and personnel that are obviously ineffective.
Excellent example Actually Warren's Packard Music Hall had a recent similar experience and turned it over to the same guy from Covelli and has had similar results. There is enough disposable income for a properly marketed.
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Consider this example. In the early years, the Covelli Center failed miserably as the city relied upon national companies for booking and promotion. These businesses did not understand the community and had no interest in the center beyond collecting their (very high) fees. Then the city turned to a local promoter, Eric Ryan, who understood the Mahoning Valley and booked and marketed accordingly. As a result, in recent years, the Covelli Center has turned a profit and emerged as a valuable community asset.
University athletic marketing is abysmal. No sensible or informed person could question that statement. Instead of staying with the failed in-house system, why not outsource ticket sales and promotion to professionals whose compensation would be based upon the results that they achieve. We are our own worst enemy by clinging to policies and personnel that are obviously ineffective.
Excellent example Actually Warren's Packard Music Hall had a recent similar experience and turned it over to the same guy from Covelli and has had similar results. There is enough disposable income for a properly marketed.
May be YSU sport marketing department should give this guy a call.
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Consider this example. In the early years, the Covelli Center failed miserably as the city relied upon national companies for booking and promotion. These businesses did not understand the community and had no interest in the center beyond collecting their (very high) fees. Then the city turned to a local promoter, Eric Ryan, who understood the Mahoning Valley and booked and marketed accordingly. As a result, in recent years, the Covelli Center has turned a profit and emerged as a valuable community asset.
University athletic marketing is abysmal. No sensible or informed person could question that statement. Instead of staying with the failed in-house system, why not outsource ticket sales and promotion to professionals whose compensation would be based upon the results that they achieve. We are our own worst enemy by clinging to policies and personnel that are obviously ineffective.
Excellent example Actually Warren's Packard Music Hall had a recent similar experience and turned it over to the same guy from Covelli and has had similar results. There is enough disposable income for a properly marketed.
May be YSU sport marketing department should give this guy a call.
Well, he couldn't do worse! Truth is, I would do better, because I have an interest and whoever is in charge clearly does not. Actually your idea has merit. He had Parkard Music Hall jumping with the Beach Boys, The Temptations, Michael Bolton and others all within the last year. With all the venues at YSU, how often are they used? What about an outside concert at Stambaugh for somebody that could draw 15,000? Wouldn’t that be fun?
This is a department that TURNED DOWN TICKETS FOR THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP GAME. Apparently because it was too much of a bother to sell? We don’t even think inside the box, much less outside the box. Want new seats in Beeghey, have a couple big concerts to raise money!
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Consider this example. In the early years, the Covelli Center failed miserably as the city relied upon national companies for booking and promotion. These businesses did not understand the community and had no interest in the center beyond collecting their (very high) fees. Then the city turned to a local promoter, Eric Ryan, who understood the Mahoning Valley and booked and marketed accordingly. As a result, in recent years, the Covelli Center has turned a profit and emerged as a valuable community asset.
University athletic marketing is abysmal. No sensible or informed person could question that statement. Instead of staying with the failed in-house system, why not outsource ticket sales and promotion to professionals whose compensation would be based upon the results that they achieve. We are our own worst enemy by clinging to policies and personnel that are obviously ineffective.
Excellent example Actually Warren's Packard Music Hall had a recent similar experience and turned it over to the same guy from Covelli and has had similar results. There is enough disposable income for a properly marketed.
May be YSU sport marketing department should give this guy a call.
Well, he couldn't do worse! Truth is, I would do better, because I have an interest and whoever is in charge clearly does not. Actually your idea has merit. He had Parkard Music Hall jumping with the Beach Boys, The Temptations, Michael Bolton and others all within the last year. With all the venues at YSU, how often are they used? What about an outside concert at Stambaugh for somebody that could draw 15,000? Wouldn’t that be fun?
This is a department that TURNED DOWN TICKETS FOR THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP GAME. Apparently because it was too much of a bother to sell? We don’t even think inside the box, much less outside the box. Want new seats in Beeghey, have a couple big concerts to raise money!
Those are all good ideas. However, they all need "work". It is much easier to draw a pay check while doing the minimum.
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Consider this example. In the early years, the Covelli Center failed miserably as the city relied upon national companies for booking and promotion. These businesses did not understand the community and had no interest in the center beyond collecting their (very high) fees. Then the city turned to a local promoter, Eric Ryan, who understood the Mahoning Valley and booked and marketed accordingly. As a result, in recent years, the Covelli Center has turned a profit and emerged as a valuable community asset.
University athletic marketing is abysmal. No sensible or informed person could question that statement. Instead of staying with the failed in-house system, why not outsource ticket sales and promotion to professionals whose compensation would be based upon the results that they achieve. We are our own worst enemy by clinging to policies and personnel that are obviously ineffective.
You make great points and I am not sticking up for anyone; however, I will point out that the university has very limited resources. So I think it is somewhat unfair to have the same expectations as a commercial venture. This is a blue-collar town still to this day, even if many of them do not work. These people still have the attitude that the University is one of (if not the) largest ventures in the area and makes the most money ...but that is simply not the case. YSU may have more resources, but not excess resources that can be allocated to a proper marketing ca,campaign. If YSU was a business, we would say it has good revenue stream, but poor bottom line ... or profit. Could we reallocate enough resources to marketing to make enough of a change to pay for itself? I do not know, but tend to think not. We simply run on a shoestring. I would like to see some variety in one or two affordable marketing efforts as see if it makes a difference.
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Let me elaborate. Under my plan, the university would spend zero dollars on marketing. Here is what we do. First, eliminate all positions in the athletic department that sell tickets and market the teams. Sorry that people have to lose their jobs, but no one should remain on a payroll if they can not produce. Strollo would continue to woo and rent out the loges, but ticket sales to the general public would be entirely out of university hands.
Then hire professionals, let us call them the ACME Company, to handle ticket sales to the public as well as all promotions. Offer this deal: ACME you keep 25% of what you sell. ACME would set prices and promote the products as they saw best. Failure would mean low profits and losing the university contract. Success would yield a nice return to ACME and raise way more money for the university than we are making now. Of course, an employee from the university auditor's office would be on hand each day to properly monitor the flow of the money.
It is simply crazy to continue to run an in-house ticket and marketing service that fails year after year after year. Time to think out of the box and try something different.
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Consider this example. In the early years, the Covelli Center failed miserably as the city relied upon national companies for booking and promotion. These businesses did not understand the community and had no interest in the center beyond collecting their (very high) fees. Then the city turned to a local promoter, Eric Ryan, who understood the Mahoning Valley and booked and marketed accordingly. As a result, in recent years, the Covelli Center has turned a profit and emerged as a valuable community asset.
University athletic marketing is abysmal. No sensible or informed person could question that statement. Instead of staying with the failed in-house system, why not outsource ticket sales and promotion to professionals whose compensation would be based upon the results that they achieve. We are our own worst enemy by clinging to policies and personnel that are obviously ineffective.
You make great points and I am not sticking up for anyone; however, I will point out that the university has very limited resources. So I think it is somewhat unfair to have the same expectations as a commercial venture. This is a blue-collar town still to this day, even if many of them do not work. These people still have the attitude that the University is one of (if not the) largest ventures in the area and makes the most money ...but that is simply not the case. YSU may have more resources, but not excess resources that can be allocated to a proper marketing ca,campaign. If YSU was a business, we would say it has good revenue stream, but poor bottom line ... or profit. Could we reallocate enough resources to marketing to make enough of a change to pay for itself? I do not know, but tend to think not. We simply run on a shoestring. I would like to see some variety in one or two affordable marketing efforts as see if it makes a difference.
1AA the example you are responding to is the successful marketing of Covilli by the City of Youngstown. YOUNGSTOWN OHIO. You sight the limited resources of YSU, but you are using that to describe the reasons they can't do the same as the city of YOUNGSTOWN. They have unlimited resources??? I believe you lose credibility when you try to cover for incompetence in the administration. Wick and others have solid points here and JT should be paying attention.
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Yes but I still think SMG runs Covellie Center? Not sure, as I don't live in town. Now, I do not think that a state university can use a commercial marketing firm, but maybe I am wrong. I know that they could use a commercial firm as it relates to venue, as long as that venue is not owned by the university ...which ours are. Then you have the next level of concerns as to whether or not the NCAA allows this. This is a good topic, I may need to do some research. Thanks Wick.
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Yes but I still think SMG runs Covellie Center? Not sure, as I don't live in town. Now, I do not think that a state university can use a commercial marketing firm, but maybe I am wrong. I know that they could use a commercial firm as it relates to venue, as long as that venue is not owned by the university ...which ours are. Then you have the next level of concerns as to whether or not the NCAA allows this. This is a good topic, I may need to do some research. Thanks Wick.
When JT toke over YSU, one of the first few things that he did was to contract an outside commercial firm to market YSU beyond the traditional surrounding counties. He was able to get $$ from a donner to fund this.
Although I am not sure about this, I believe that is still on going today with funding from the YSU budget.
May be marketing the athletic events is different.
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Got my season ticket bill in the mail a couple of days ago. I see ticket prices went up for the season by $10 from last year. This year $110 vs. last year at $100 per ticket.
Not complaining, they might as well cash in on last season's success. It's still a bargain at that price, which they should market that very fact.
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It really is an interesting topic & even has coursework available. Here is what I have found so far:
The NCAA defines a collegiate athletic program as a professional education institution with amateur athletics. So any marketing that would financially benefit a student-athlete (directly) is not permitted. So basically they are saying that ticket sales is about all these marketing agencies can do for athletics. In fact, the vast majority of colleges that have hired them, since 2010, have stopped using them. The average commission is 33% of revenue. It says that SUNY Buffalo hired a firm in 2010 & in 2014 they paid the firm over $900k of $2.8mil in revenues despite a 10% decline in sales.
Notre Dame has been able to maintain their firm and have had one for many years. The firm only takes a percentage of new sales revenue. This has become common and is why most schools lose their marketing firms, as they fill up the stands and there is no new revenue available for the firms to be paid a commission on. As a result, many firms are looking for other ways to generate new revenue for the schools.
This method of monitoring who purchases tickets has become the standard. For example, I purchase the same 4-season tickets each year. My father has purchased these same seats since the year before the Stambaugh opened. If I stop purchasing those tickets and someone else picks them up, the university would pay a commission to the marketing agency. Yet again most universities are finding that season tickets sales in many programs are simply existing ticket-holders upgrading their seats (Anyone that purchases mine would sit in the 10th & 11th row isle seats). As a result, if a season ticket holder switched his or her seat 3 times, the university would pay more in commission, than the seats would generate.
I also saw where Northwestern was in some trouble because they allowed a marketing firm to use sports images (photos, video, etc.) in their attempts to attract new students. In effect, the NCAA deemed this as the university hiring an athletic agency. This makes sense as student athletes are students first and may have seen these videos. There was no mention of any penalties to Northwestern.