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YSU Penguin Athletics => YSU Penguin Athletics => Topic started by: 4lessgovt on December 05, 2014, 12:52:23 PM
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Does anyone know the specifics of our athletic budget and any of the MAC Schools? How much of the budget is tuition? Where are the MAC schools spending the extra 10-15 Million? Anyone have details on revenue coming in and how the shortfalls are subsidized?
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I can help a little but not completely.
Our budget figures can be found here: http://web.ysu.edu/gen/ysu/Budget_Planning_m753.html
The 2015 FY budget is $14 million, with the athletic department coming up with $3.1 million of it in revenues (tickets, advertising, etc.). The rest could be regarded as subsidized from non-athletic sources. USA Today has attempted to collect data on athletic budgets and athletic subsidies from non-athletic sources across schools: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/schools/finances/. You can see the numbers for the MAC schools there, but not broken into the detail that you want.
According to USA Today, our subsidy of athletics is seen as on the high side relative to other institutions. It is worth noting that $4.6 million is student scholarships.
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I should add that it's probably not fair to say that $10.9 million is subsidized, even though that's the way it is viewed. The $4.6 million in scholarships is seen as coming from the general fund, but a portion of that money is actually designated as athletic scholarship money by the donor. The fact that it is seen as coming from the general fund has more to do with YSU's internal bookkeeping. At least that's how I think it works.
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Does anyone know the specifics of our athletic budget and any of the MAC Schools? How much of the budget is tuition? Where are the MAC schools spending the extra 10-15 Million? Anyone have details on revenue coming in and how the shortfalls are subsidized?
http://www.bbstate.com/info/schools-budget
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YSU is NOT going to the MAC. I wish people would stop with YSU to the MAC. Also, YSU is NOT moving up to FBS. If anything, over the next 5-10 years, the "power 5" conferences will gain more autonomy, maybe 5-10 schools now in FBS will opt to remain in FBS, and then there will be a combining of FCS and those schols that decide the cost is not worth the benefit to remain FBS in football.
And, it would not surprise if the schools that play FCS but give only limited scholarships or no scholarships are allowed to drop to a lower division. College football a far as divisions will be completely different in another 5-10 years for D1 schools, and YSU is NOT going to be in the highest tier/level.
I envision about 85-90 teams. The current "power 5" all go to 14 teams, and then possibly a 6th Conference is added with 14 teams. That would be 84 teams. ND and BYU have enough power and $$$$$ to remain Independent.
Army and Navy drop down to whatever the name is for the 2nd tier. Another possibility is staying with 5 power conferences, and each conference having 16 schools. That adds up to 80, plus Notre Dame and BYU.
These are just a few of the scenarios I envision, and the new playoff starting this season will likely expand to 8 teams.
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I agree with your basic theory,
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I posted these questions to get a better understanding of the economics of Division 1 athletics outside of the power 5 conferences. I have no intention of turning this thread into YSU joining the MAC. I heard many numbers thrown out by the YSU faculty about the money spent on sports and want to use the MAC schools for perspective. Thanks Spiderlegs & BidDWSU for the links. I have only had a chance to look at them briefly and the key seems to figure out what they are including in the definition of revenue.
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guinpen,
Thank you for understanding it is a theory, and not something specific. Just seems to make sense to me that the major programs are going to want to keep as much money as possible for themselves. This new playoff system does not give a team outside the "power 5" conferences an opportunity to make the playoffs, unless said team is Notre Dame. Heck, there is only 1 spot allotted in the "New Year's 6 Bowls" for the other 6 FBS conferences combined.
I think it's more a question of how all of this is going to shape up in the end, rather than if there will be more changes. This would be god for programs like YSU, because they would then be playing with schools such as KENT,Akron, App State, Ga Southern, OU...etc.
I think 6 conferences with 14 teams each makes the most sense. ND and BYU will likely want to remain Independent, and they have enough fan support nationwide and money to do so and still be in whatever the top level is called.
I could be way off though. Time will tell.
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4lessgovt,
Sorry if you saw my post as attacking you. That was not my intention. As for figuring out what is included as revenue, good luck with that. I think there is alot of "fuzzy math" being used by most schools, including YSU. Then there is the fact Private Schools do not have to release any financial info if they choose to keep said info private.
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YSU is NOT going to the MAC. I wish people would stop with YSU to the MAC. Also, YSU is NOT moving up to FBS. If anything, over the next 5-10 years, the "power 5" conferences will gain more autonomy, maybe 5-10 schools now in FBS will opt to remain in FBS, and then there will be a combining of FCS and those schols that decide the cost is not worth the benefit to remain FBS in football.
And, it would not surprise if the schools that play FCS but give only limited scholarships or no scholarships are allowed to drop to a lower division. College football a far as divisions will be completely different in another 5-10 years for D1 schools, and YSU is NOT going to be in the highest tier/level.
I envision about 85-90 teams. The current "power 5" all go to 14 teams, and then possibly a 6th Conference is added with 14 teams. That would be 84 teams. ND and BYU have enough power and $$$$$ to remain Independent.
Army and Navy drop down to whatever the name is for the 2nd tier. Another possibility is staying with 5 power conferences, and each conference having 16 schools. That adds up to 80, plus Notre Dame and BYU.
These are just a few of the scenarios I envision, and the new playoff starting this season will likely expand to 8 teams.
Another possibility is that Congress steps in and pops the athletic spending bubble, which could force significant change on college sports. I don't now if it has the votes for this yet, but the idea is gaining traction. See this link:
http://blogs.rollcall.com/wgdb/ncaa-congressional-hearing-cory-booker-jay-rockefeller/?pos=fbbtn
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I can help a little but not completely.
Our budget figures can be found here: http://web.ysu.edu/gen/ysu/Budget_Planning_m753.html
The 2015 FY budget is $14 million, with the athletic department coming up with $3.1 million of it in revenues (tickets, advertising, etc.). The rest could be regarded as subsidized from non-athletic sources. USA Today has attempted to collect data on athletic budgets and athletic subsidies from non-athletic sources across schools: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/schools/finances/. You can see the numbers for the MAC schools there, but not broken into the detail that you want.
According to USA Today, our subsidy of athletics is seen as on the high side relative to other institutions. It is worth noting that $4.6 million is student scholarships.
Oh no as usual budget talk always leaves out the student. Students are charged tuition do not forget that. Read this:" The University Board of Trustees defines “tuition” to be the sum of the instructional, general and information services fees. These fees are charged to all students"
Well the students tuition includes a general fee. A big part of the general fee goes to YSU sports programs. Just thought I let you know, you know.
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I was checking that General Fee thing again.
I found the amount for last year, most likely went up again though.
Here it is: *GENERAL FEE
(Waived for Beeghly College of Education Off-Campus Graduate Work in Professional Education)
Students registering for 1-11 credits............ $ 54.60 per credit
Students registering for 12-16 credits.............. $ 655.20 per semester
Students registering for credits over 16........$ 50.34 per credit
Lots of it goes to the YSU Sports area.
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I was checking that General Fee thing again.
I found the amount for last year, most likely went up again though.
Here it is: *GENERAL FEE
(Waived for Beeghly College of Education Off-Campus Graduate Work in Professional Education)
Students registering for 1-11 credits............ $ 54.60 per credit
Students registering for 12-16 credits.............. $ 655.20 per semester
Students registering for credits over 16........$ 50.34 per credit
Lots of it goes to the YSU Sports area.
Go away. How should I write this so that you understand? I will give it a shot:
You should go away because my friend told me that you should go away because you are not providing any valuable input to this board. Valuable input is input where you actually provide substance and input that is valuable. So if my friend says you should go away it would be better for everybody on this board because you should just go away because you don't provide any valuable input and discuss about the same thing over and over and over using the same subject on every thread with run on sentences meaning you are not really enrolled in college because you are not a critical thinker and you don't provide and valuable input let alone write in understandable English like my friends tell me you dont.
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I was checking that General Fee thing again.
I found the amount for last year, most likely went up again though.
Here it is: *GENERAL FEE
(Waived for Beeghly College of Education Off-Campus Graduate Work in Professional Education)
Students registering for 1-11 credits............ $ 54.60 per credit
Students registering for 12-16 credits.............. $ 655.20 per semester
Students registering for credits over 16........$ 50.34 per credit
Lots of it goes to the YSU Sports area.
(http://m.quickmeme.com/img/b1/b1fa6188e2a98b8f33b9840c2d42f4dc3118914c755964374674fc78ad98acd1.jpg)
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Some quick numbers:
Akron 5M in revenue, 19 million out of general fund.
I think Akron pays an additional 3.5 million from general fund just for the football stadium.
Kent 5.7 M revenue 19 million from general fund
YSU 3.2 M revenue 10.8 M from general fund
YSU Football budget 3.7M , 1.5 to 2M from general fund.
YSU 2015 athletic budget:
EARNED INCOME
Football Tickets $ 420,000.00
Basketball Tickets $ 135,000.00
Guarantees $ 755,000.00
Program Sales $ 7,500.00
Campus Vending Concessions $ 85,000.00
Concession Commission $ 45,000.00
Royalty Commission $ 40,000.00
NCAA Revenue Sharing $ 670,000.00
Program Ad. Sales/Recognition $ 170,000.00
Radio/Television Income $ 55,000.00
Pouring Rights & Miscellaneous $ 125,000.00
Football Tailgate $ 65,000.00
Scoreboard Advertising:
Football $ 130,000.00
Basketball $ 50,000.00
Stadium Loge Rentals $ 430,000.00
Total Earned Income $ 3,187,500.00
GENERAL FUND ALLOCATION
Scholarship Support $ 4,552,066.00
Operating Support $ 6,291,920.00
Total General Fund Support $ 10,843,986.00
TOTAL RESOURCES $ 14,031,486.00
EXPENSES
Permanent Staff $ 3,809,818.00
Temporary Staff $ 447,722.00
Fringe Benefits $ 1,433,921.00
Debt Service (transfer) $ 152,660.00
Scholarships $ 4,552,066.00
Operating $ 3,635,299.00
TOTAL EXPENSES $ 14,031,486.00
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GENERAL FUND ALLOCATION
Scholarship Support $ 4,552,066.00
Operating Support $ 6,291,920.00
Total General Fund Support $ 10,843,986.00
TOTAL RESOURCES $ 14,031,486.00
EXPENSES
Permanent Staff $ 3,809,818.00
Temporary Staff $ 447,722.00
Fringe Benefits $ 1,433,921.00
Debt Service (transfer) $ 152,660.00
Scholarships $ 4,552,066.00
Operating $ 3,635,299.00
TOTAL EXPENSES $ 14,031,486.00
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Oh yes, much of the sports money comes from the student's tuition. The fee called the General Fee. That is why you would think students would attend sports events. All they need is a ID to attend. After all the students pay for much of the sports costs. Don't ya think. Also, do not confuse the General Fee ,which is tuition, with the General Fund. The tuition General Fee goes into the General Fund, then moved to various university groups.
Ok I am off to the mall, b4 the Ohio State game............go you BUCKS, GO YOU BUCKS
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Some quick numbers:
Akron 5M in revenue, 19 million out of general fund.
I think Akron pays an additional 3.5 million from general fund just for the football stadium.
Kent 5.7 M revenue 19 million from general fund
YSU 3.2 M revenue 10.8 M from general fund
YSU Football budget 3.7M , 1.5 to 2M from general fund.
YSU 2015 athletic budget:
EARNED INCOME
Football Tickets $ 420,000.00
Basketball Tickets $ 135,000.00
Guarantees $ 755,000.00
Program Sales $ 7,500.00
Campus Vending Concessions $ 85,000.00
Concession Commission $ 45,000.00
Royalty Commission $ 40,000.00
NCAA Revenue Sharing $ 670,000.00
Program Ad. Sales/Recognition $ 170,000.00
Radio/Television Income $ 55,000.00
Pouring Rights & Miscellaneous $ 125,000.00
Football Tailgate $ 65,000.00
Scoreboard Advertising:
Football $ 130,000.00
Basketball $ 50,000.00
Stadium Loge Rentals $ 430,000.00
Total Earned Income $ 3,187,500.00
Forgive me for beating a dead horse.
The revenue from football-related revenue streams appears to make FB the #1 revenue sport for YSU...by far. Basketball appears to be #2. I don't see much evidence of a revenue generation from Olympic sports.
The question arises...how much revenue has YSU lost in the last 14 years due to an under-performing FB and MBB program? Our former AD (now President) handed the premier FCS program to Strollo, and the program immediately deteriorates. How much revenue has Ron Strollo cost YSU, and the community (local restaurants, etc) via neglect of the two largest revenue generating sports at YSU?
How does he remain so wildly unaccountable for his woeful job performance?
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You look at these charts and then consider how many schools play fast and loose with their figures. Kent State reports a revenue total of 5.7 million. OK. They have no loge revenue. As a member of a one bid basketball league, their NCAA revenue sharing is less than ours (we are still living off of the Butler runs.) What few fans they have are students who get in for free. And they claim that they acquired revenue 2.5 million greater than us. Remember these figures were compiled before the bottom fell out of our football attendance.
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Just read this.... Excellent letter to the editor everyone should read:
@WeAreYoungstown:
Please read this excellent editorial from a former YSU faculty member on the idea of "academics over athletics." #YSU http://www.vindy.com/news/2014/dec/07/at-ysu-academics-amp-athletics-is-not-an/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
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Just read this.... Excellent letter to the editor everyone should read:
@WeAreYoungstown:
Please read this excellent editorial from a former YSU faculty member on the idea of "academics over athletics." #YSU http://www.vindy.com/news/2014/dec/07/at-ysu-academics-amp-athletics-is-not-an/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
Excellent read.
I would add that some non-student athletes chose Universities based in part on the athletic programs. My daughter, for example, chose FAU over FGCU because (amongst other reasons) FAU has a FB program and would offer a more complete college experience.
I would also add that the expectations of the revenue generating sports should be higher than non-revenue generating sports, as the ROI increases. It is absurd to allow revenue generating sports to languish in mediocrity for decades.
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I'm finding the whole "academics vs. athletics" thing a red herring that helps each side. The academics like it because it triggers such an emotional response in favor of academics and in a self-serving way diverts attention away from small departments that probably need consolidation. The administration likes it because it diverts attention away from YSU's real financial issues like the university's high overhead.
I should add that I think that the athletic budget is out of whack, but not so much so that reducing it will fix YSU woes. The real problems are elsewhere.
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If you graduated from any college and you participated in athletics you experienced another challenge that students that did not participate cant understand....... That is the beauty of these opportunities that cant be taken away.... For an employee to say such a thing they should be held accountable and fired..... However, im sure the union will protect this person.... Its no different than the class warfare that plagues this country today... Go to work, make a living, raise your kids right an shut your mouth...