YSU and the MAC

[Cimo7]

delusional is thinking staying in FCS a good idea. Enjoy irrelevancy and the and the 600 fans per game. Rather play on national TV a few games a year and get to a meaningless bowl game then play in a meaningless division for a meaningless playoffs they we wont ever win again either. Drop down to division II then for all that.

[Double ET]

Absolutely delusional.  My concern is we're closing to being in the NEC for football.  I can see it now.  YSU in the NEC western division with Mercyhurst, Robert Morris, Duquesne and St Francis.

Look at the bright side, we would probably make the playoff every year. lol
Someone (AD and/ or administration will need to put a business case together to see what it takes to join the MAC.
It has been reported that it will cost $15M to make the move up. Let us find out how much the donors are willing to fund the program.
From a business standpoint, if we could play 2 more money games, we would get another $1M. At fbs, we need to fund 30 more scholarships. At $20,000/players, that will be $600k plus room and board.  However, what is the true cost to the university since the tuition is funny money we pay ourselves (not to mention we will get money from state subsidies).I don’t know if the university has ever hire more faculty to teach the additional athletes.
When I was a faculty member, I regularly had 2-3 athletic students in my classes. I just taught them as part my class (sometimes as over loads). It didn’t cost the university any additional $$.
Joining the MAC, we might generate higher revenue by playing our regional competitors such as Akron, Kent, Ohio, Toledo…
I don’t know what the true cost will be by joining MAC. In the last 20 years working in the university, I have not ever seen any business case or analysis being done to see if it is feasible.
My gut feeling is that , if we continue to go on the present path, we will continue to go downward until no one will watch the game anymore since the product will no longer be desirable to the fans. I, for one, will not be interested in watching teams like Mercyhurst, Duquesne, Robert Morris, Valpo, Butler….
My 2 cents worth.
It takes money to make money. We will continue to save money into oblivion.

[33Y0]

delusional is thinking staying in FCS a good idea. Enjoy irrelevancy and the and the 600 fans per game. Rather play on national TV a few games a year and get to a meaningless bowl game then play in a meaningless division for a meaningless playoffs they we wont ever win again either. Drop down to division II then for all that.

The fee to move to from FCS to FBS is $5 million alone. Then you'd have more money that you'd have to throw at the football staff alone nevertheless the millions you'd need to upgrade your facilities to MAC standards... YSU doesn't have THAT kind of money laying around, especially given the current state of academic programs they're cutting left and right. It's just the reality you're going to be faced with.

[goodnews]

I believe the added football scholarships would require us adding more womens sports or getting rid of mens.

[nova75]

Sadly it would seem that FCS football is on death’s doorstep. Recent teams moving to FBS is only the beginning. Whether we want to believe it or not, the MAC is a better place for kids to play than FCS. It doesn’t matter that the top couple of teams in FCS could beat them regularly, it is D1 FBS. Period. FCS is basically a farm system at this point, with minimal interest except for a handful of schools.

[goodnews]

People are making moves to protect themselves.  I dont think it's a coincidence that we are now scheduling Villanova and Towson 35 years later.  There is NO one to play that anyone gives a damn about anymore.  Not to mention, Richmond moving to the Patriot league.  The CAA has had a revolving door for the last 10 years.  The OVC has disbanded.  We would be naive to think movement isn't coming to the MVC. 

[nova75]

Goodnews you are 100% correct. The CAA is a shell of itself. Almost embarrassing the teams that are now in that conference. If the Dakotas follow it could be the same for the MVFC.

[guinpen]

Sadly it would seem that FCS football is on death’s doorstep. Recent teams moving to FBS is only the beginning. Whether we want to believe it or not, the MAC is a better place for kids to play than FCS. It doesn’t matter that the top couple of teams in FCS could beat them regularly, it is D1 FBS. Period. FCS is basically a farm system at this point, with minimal interest except for a handful of schools.

I agree

[IAA Fan]

I believe the added football scholarships would require us adding more womens sports or getting rid of mens.

Yes and no I would think goodnews. Many of the FBS programs offer less we do, the big difference is that YSU can call theirs a partial; where in FBS, even a penny in football scholarship would constitute a full scholarship. But in terms of the number of scholarships, I think you are correct. There are only 6 sports that are allowed to offer full-ride scholarships:


    Football = 63 (equivalency) no max player count
    Men’s Basketball = 13 (full ride only) 15 player max
    Women’s Basketball = 15 (full ride only) 15 player max
    Women’s Gymnastics
    Tennis =  4.5 (full-ride) 10 player max
    Women's Tennis = 8 (full-ride) 9 player max
    Volleyball = 12 (equivalency)

These are known as head count sports. So, if we add head-count scholarships (assuming we are at our max) we have to delete a head-count scholarship. So dropping baseball, or swimming, or Track does not really help. It helps financially, but not with the NCAA guidelines. This is the reason why there are so many schools that play non-scholarship football (or do not field a team).  This does not even cover those players that are not in uniform during a game or do not play. Ths is one of the reasons why the NCAA added football rules allowing that a certain number of minutes can be played and it does not count against the player's figures.

[YsuPride]

Ysu facilities are better than half the Mac. Ncaa apparently doesn't stress the stadium size since we would have a bigger seating than Kennesaw.  I don't think it would matter we would be in the top half of attendance in the Mac anyways.  Mac schools other than toledo don't really avg more than 13 to 15k a game.  We draw 10k with 0 d1 home games. We would be ok.

[YsuPride]

Can you imagine a home game vs kent or Akron.  Would be a huge crowd for both.

[Wick250]

Fantasy versus Reality. Your dreams are pure fantasy unless you can explain how we are going to increase our athletic budget by 15 MILLION DOLLARS. Each and every year, 15 million additional dollars. That is impossible, and if you consider this with your intellects instead of your emotions, you would arrive at the same conclusion.

[guinpen]

I just cannot wrap my head around all these reasons as to why we can or cannot afford to move up. I read posts that explain how it can be done, and they make sense, and then posts that explain why it is crazy to even consider it and they make sense.

I try to be a logical person and when I have seen so many schools make the move in the past years, some used to be D2, logic makes me wonder why they are able to do it but not YSU. What would make us so different, why would we be unique?

The landscape of college sports is changing at an alarming rate, and not for the best in my opinion, but the change is not going to stop any time soon. I can only hope that our leadership has the vision and wisdom to position us where we need to be, but I am not as confident as I was years ago.

[YSUGO]

I suggested a few years ago. We either need to drop down in division or go into a different conference like NEC and become the big fish in the conference, kinda like Mount Union is where they make the playoffs every year and people like winners and help build a base it’s either that or go up division but stay where we’re at does nothing to enhance or improve the fanbase, etc., some of you think Staying in the conference it’s such a great thing because it’s a toughest one in FCS.    But that only works if you’re a big winner and have rivalry which we have either, it’s destroyed everything that was accomplished 30 years ago. Yes, I said 30 years ago we will become a irevelant Not just nationally but locally.  It’s time to have a vision instead of staying with the status quo. 

[Double ET]

In my time associated with the university, I have seen many studies done on why we couldn’t afford to do it ( mostly from the faculty union on why we shouldn’t be doing it) and I have not yet seen one on what it takes to do it by looking at the entire business case ( how could we do it).

To get this done, someone in the university needs to push, sell and justify it by building a business case which
needs to include the following (at a minimum)

 True cost on scholarships - as I mentioned in my previous post that the cost is less than the number of the additional scholarships multiplied by the cost per scholarship

Additional revenue by playing regional rivalries home and away plus couple big money games with the big boys

Support by deep pocket donors

Increase in ticket prices

 Reduction in travel costs (within neighboring states)

Impact of increased scholarships on other YSU sports

Realignment on other sport conferences (Horizon, MVFC….)

Additional TV revenue and advertising revenue

Impact of name exposure on potential increase in student enrollment

Others ( that I didn’t mention or I am not smart enough to think of…)

I don’t know if it is feasible. But I know if nobody in the administration of the university is willing to take ownership to move this forward, it will never happen.

I hate to say, with the change of landscape in NCAA, I don’t know if the current path will be sustainable. This is like trying to row a boat upstream. We either moved up (rowing hard) or it would move down  (naturally)  but we won’t be able to stay where we are at.

Am I all wet?